General Discussion

@MaidenOfGhosts
Oh she's definitely still alive. Ruby's silver eyes only affect grim, so I don't think Cinder would have been killed. Maybe injured from the sheer force of energy? But she does seem to have a little connection to grim, so maybe?

One of the most interesting theories/discussions I've watched from RWBY is somewhat about Ozpin: Click!

This is another great theory by the same guy: Click!

@Avani

Yeah that's actually a good point! Though yeah I definitely agree that Cinder has some connection to the Grimm.. A friend of mine has a theory that she's a Grimm given a human form, because she is based on Cinderella who was "transformed" by her Fairy Godmother (In this case, Salem?). I think it's a pretty neat theory, though I need to poke said friend to like actually write it down and explain it more at some point haha.

And huh, that's a really interesting video! And I absolutely agree that Ozpin's been around for a WHILE. I've seen other people talk about the theory that he's old as heck, and it does make a lot of sense!

(On the subject of theories, there's one that I'm REALLY attached to that I heard about a while ago and have sort of built up some more evidence for myself. I'm not sure how easy it would be to actually explain it though omg)

@MaidenOfGhosts that's a cool theory! There's also a theory I read somewhere about Cinder being the only survivor from Mountain Glenn and feeling bitter about the world just abandoning her and everyone there when it was invaded. Also, the song Sacrifice really matches up with Cinder and Salem's relationship.

"Born an angel, heaven sent / Falls from grace are never elegant"
Possibly Salem's fall? Perhaps she was once good and Ozpin lead her to her current state.

"You can't have my life / I'm not your sacrifice."
Cinder speaking to Salem. Another theory I read was the Salem wants all the maiden's powers combined. So Cinder is the "first" one of her followers (that we know of) that has these powers, making Cinder a sacrifice in the future if this is Salem's ultimate goal. After all, the story of the maiden's powers stemmed from a single, powerful wizard.

Some people added onto that theory that the next person to get a maiden is Emerald. They say that because they believe the winter maiden is a Schnee, since they resemble winter so much. To add on, in the opening songs, Weiss is fighting Emerald in two of them, but they've never fought yet. Everyone else battling someone has already happened (Ruby and Cinder, Mercury and Yang, Blake and Adam). So the speculation is Emerald will go to Atlas to sniff out the maiden, and Weiss will come to defend.

Divide is also a great song for analyzing, simply because it shows Salem's feelings towards Ozpin, so it's a cool song to get to know this new character.

"Have you no shame?/ Signing them up for your war / Train them to fight what they can't beat / Your sins are what they'll pay for / Sacrifice them / For your needs"
It seems Salem is a bit of a hypocrite if it really is Cinder speaking to Salem about not being her sacrifice. Why is she degrading Ozpin about disposing others when she may do it herself?

- drops in -

I can't wait for Volume 4 and the new soundtracks, it seems promising. My favorite character is Mercury, and he's that kind of favorite you'd love to hit with a baseball bat.

I really hope the villains don't get too hurt since they're getting more relevant, and I've heard we're going to learn more about Merc's dark backstory.

I've always loved the music, and I can't wait to see what's in store for us. Speaking of stores, where is the villain merchandise?

@Pratacor

I know there's SUPPOSED to be figurines of the antagonists at some point!! (Specifically: Cinder, Roman, Mercury, and Emerald!) But I'm not sure when they're coming out which sucks because WOW I NEED THE MERCURY AND EMERALD FIGURINES AAAA

also - high fives- because HECK YEAH another person that loves Mercury! So excited to hopefully learn more about him. (Though it's true, he's the kind of fave you wanna hit with a baseball bat. I love him, but still omg)

@Avani

Huh, I've heard the theory that Sacrifice is about Cinder, but.. I'll admit, I'm not sold on it? It's not a bad theory at all, I just don't really understand it. Mostly because it doesn't seem to me that Cinder is rebelling against Salem in any way? At least I haven't seen any reason to believe that she is. (And I don't think it would be that Salem wants all the Maidens' powers... Since the Maiden concept was thought up in between Vol 2 and 3, so almost certainly after Sacrifice was written?)

Personally, the theory I'm really attached to is that it's about Raven! The song sounds like it's from the point of view of a fallen hero, and we know for sure that Raven was a huntress before she just.. Left, after Yang was born.

It definitely seems to fit along with Salem's whole thing, and.. It's very likely that Raven has SOME connection to Salem and gang! The portal she opens after saving Yang from Neo looks EXACTLY like the weird portal that opens on the ground when Cinder steals Amber's power. Which happens to look a lot like the marking on the back of Salem's outfit.

Qrow even says that Raven has a point of view on the world that he doesn't agree with, which could allude to the idea of her having a similar view on things as Salem?

Plus, there's a few lines in the song that make me think it's about Raven:

"The moon will sadly watch the roses die."
Roses is the key word here. Raven was on the same team as Summer, after all. And Summer, well.. Died. (Admittedly, after Raven left, but there /is/ a theory that Raven and Qrow can sense impending death. If not, it's likely that Raven still found out about Summer's death anyway.)

"Truth will rise / Revealed by mirrored eyes."
Okay so, the "mirrored eyes" thing is key here. This takes a bit more explaining, so bear with me!

So. This is Qrow's emblem, as seen during the story that Yang tells in Burning the Candle. In that same episode, she draws this on the blackboard. It's a mirrored version of Qrow's! But why would she draw a mirrored version of his emblem? It makes me think that perhaps it's Raven's emblem instead. And conveniently, the emblems bear a resemblance to eyes. Hence, "mirrored eyes."

Plus, in that odd.. Dream-like sequence after the credits of Breach (so, after Sacrifice has played), when we see Yang confront Raven... We see Raven take off her mask, and we see her red eyes. It then cuts back to Yang, with her eyes having turned red as well. So, again, mirrored eyes?


Anyway, I think either theory would be really interesting if true!! I'm just not entirely sold on it being about Cinder yet, though that could always change! For now though, I'm pretty convinced it's about Raven~

(it may be unnecessary, but i really want to stress that i don't mind the theory that sacrifice is about cinder!! while i'm personally really invested in the idea that it's about raven, i have zero problem with any other theories about the song and i really don't want to come across as trying to shoot yours down?? ;; so i'm sorry if it does come across that way, it's not my intention at all!)

@MaidenOfGhosts
Well considering Salem is fairly new to the entire franchise, we don't really know anything about Cinder and Salem's relationship. Perhaps Cinder plans to turn on Salem in the end. Which happens in a lot of stories. Like Roman took the side he believed would win, even if it may not be the side he should belong on. Perhaps Cinder didn't realize at first with Salem that it was her plan to get all the power, but maybe she's beginning to realize it now that she has the power, or perhaps she is paranoid and wants all the power to herself. Like she described it, it's like a hunger (when she was incomplete).

Another theory, like you said, is Raven. But we don't have any hints as to why Raven would be a sacrifice to anyone (yet). She does have some connection with Salem and the White Fang due to her mask and the portal. But we don't really know what the portal leads to yet, do we know if it goes to wherever Salem is? It seems likely, but it hasn't been proven yet. Obviously Salem is in another dimension, or realm, or something because the entire landscape, not to mention the sky and moon are completely different.

And another theory that came to my mind is Summer. Perhaps Summer is speaking to Salem or Ozpin (before she died)? We don't really know much about Summer, but it seems like Salem hints at somebody's failure: "know that you send her to the same pitiful demise." perhaps the person who failed last time for Ozpin was Summer. Maybe Summer turned on Ozpin in the end, "I'm not your sacrifice" and joined with Salem, and was assumed dead, considering that wherever Salem is must not be accessible to a lot of people.

But holy cow, I never heard the theory about Qrow and Raven, but it sounds really cool! Maybe the irony in that is that a group of crows is called a murder? eh? But in all seriousness, that's a great observation, because I never took into account just how often it was Qrow or Raven jumping in at the last moment to save someone.

Theories are theories, everyone speculates things differently! That was a major thing we discussed in my final high school english course. Analyzing literature can never be wrong. Looking deeper into things, and guessing, can't be wrong. Everyone is different. ^^

@Avani

Fair enough~ We absolutely don't know enough about Cinder, Salem, or Raven to figure out what the heck is going on with any of them! Honestly I think Sacrifice is a really interesting song because we just. Don't know who it's about? It's such a neat song. I'm so excited to hopefully get some confirmation on who it's about in the future.

Though with regards to why Raven would be a sacrifice to anyone, I think it would really tie in with Salem's accusations against Ozpin. Clearly huntsmen/huntresses have been sent off and never returned, basically sacrifices for a "greater good". Perhaps Raven realized that and decided to nOPE OUTTA THERE before the same could happen to her?

It being about Summer is a really interesting theory too, actually!! Her joining forces with Salem would be heck of a twist, that's for sure.

And yeah, I'm really fond of that theory about Qrow and Raven. They certainly have a habit of randomly swooping in (ha) to save people. Especially with Raven, because seriously. How the heckie heck did she happen to pop in to a MOVING TRAIN out of no where to save Yang like that??

And true! Sorry I got a bit.. Overly worried there. Anxiety's a terrible thing and gets to me fairly often, so I had this "oh god i hope i didn't sound antagonistic" sorta panic-moment. :'D

@MaidenOfGhosts Plus, with Raven rescuing Yang, she rescued her from Neo. Someone on Roman's side, who is connected to Cinder, who is connected to Salem. I wonder why Neo had such a reaction to seeing Raven? Because Neo is a strong character in terms of combat, she didn't even want to cross swords with Raven at all. Maybe Neo knows Raven, and basically went "oh this is your daughter? Oopsies!" and got the heck out of there haha. [img]http://i.makeagif.com/media/1-26-2016/yMarai.gif[/img]

@Avani

Hey hey! Always nice to see some RWBY fans~

I got into the series like midway through season 2 I think? My friend introduced me to it and I fell in love with it, haha.

My favorite characters are tragically Mercury and Emerald. I say tragically because I'm worried for them in the series currently. I know they're not well liked, especially after season 3, but they're still my criminal babies okay. Honestly though, I love pretty much all the characters. 8'D

I think right now, I want to know more about Salem and Ozpin's history together! I don't know why I'm so interested in that but I am. Also more about the Maidens!

@Avani

hECK I'M CACKLING AT THE USE OF THAT GIF IT'S PERFECT

but yeah I would not be surprised if Neo knew of Raven, considering how quickly she just noped outta there. Like Raven's pretty intimidating, but Neo is pretty strong herself and seems pretty dang confident about that fact, so her immediately getting outta there could suggest she's aware of how scary Raven is!

@Starfait

*Waves* Hello again~

(gotta say btw, I'm super excited that there seems to be a lot of other people around here that love Emerald and Mercury. :D)