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TOPIC | [Guide] Ruins Meditate Monk
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[font=calibri light][size=4][b]EDIT:[/b] It has been suggested that bolster is swapped for sap, and to use defend instead. I will update the picture accordingly in the next few days. [img]https://i.gyazo.com/076ea92dfbcfac42d03b15bc4b9ff201.png[/img] [columns][font=calibri light][size=4][size=4][b]115 str/20 vit/75 qck [/b]- extra point in int or def. (buffs such as bolster and rally have an invisible healing effect equal to a dragon's int)[/size] [nextcol][center][font=calibri light][size=4][size=4] [b]Stones:[/b] Meditate Haste/Eliminate/Rally/Sap [b]OR[/b] Bolster Berserker/Berserker/Berserker Ambush/Ambush [color=transparent]lightflightlightflightlightflightlightflightlightflightlightflight[/color][/size][/center] [/columns] [font=calibri light][size=4] [b]Alternate Mire Build:[/b] 119 str/6 vit/72 qck OR 119 str/16 vit/70 qck This is the current [b]ruins single trainer build[/b] I've been using- I know, I know, what's with the meditate? As you may or may not be aware, meditate applies a debuff to strength for 3 turns after it's cast (it says 2 in the tooltip but that's incorrect). However, consider that a normal mire flyer-style build takes haste and 4 scratches- or five turns- before it can eliminate: this build only takes 4. This means that against physical packs, you can take one mob out before its second turn, which is huge considering how melee based the ruins are! And you have rally up, so with this strength you can eliminate everything right off the bat. This build happily starts against any 3 pack that doesn't contain the tatterwing carcass or shatterwing vulture. [b]The first round turn order is as follows: meditate, haste, bolster/defend, rally, eliminate[/b]- unless you're against the faster casters (somber spirit, otherworldly aura, lux spectre, aer phantom), in which case meditate/haste/rally/defend is preferred, so you're defending while they might be casting in your general direction. Having haste on the second turn is why the quick is as high as it is- unfortunately, it's not possible to have a returned turn against anything but the wendigo and pronghorn stomper, but the sooner you can get bolster up, the better (it is possible that you could adapt this build to have lower quick and higher vit, but I don't plan to test this at the moment). Unlike most of the solo ruins builds I've tested, this build can survive two rounds no problem even when starting on an all-physical 3 pack! This means it can be reliably used for blitzing if you so wish. I'm currently running some tests comparing the speed of training in the ruins to a 119str mire flyer (in the mire). You can stretch it to train fodder to 7 or 10 or whatever, but it may require a couple of restarts. [b]Pros:[/b] Can take out mobs before mire flyer-styles even get their pants on. Can start against most 3 packs. This is [b]huge[/b], as it means you can restart without losing too much time. Good survivability compared to similar glass cannon builds. Using haste first turn nets you a returned turn with this quick, which is helpful for building up breath. You can rally eliminate everything. It's a fun build! [b]Cons[/b]: Dodges are deadly- if something dodges you, unless you have the breath to eliminate again you should restart. Whichever way you slice it, the ruins are going to wear a dragon down very quickly. [b]Tips:[/b] If you have to restart and you're training fodder, dump all the fodder's stats into vit, it helps soak up damage (this goes for any single trainer build in any venue). Water is probably a tad better over nature, as aer phantoms (wind, resisted by water) are more problematic than otherworldy aurae (arcane, resisted by nature).
EDIT: It has been suggested that bolster is swapped for sap, and to use defend instead. I will update the picture accordingly in the next few days.
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115 str/20 vit/75 qck - extra point in int or def.
(buffs such as bolster and rally have an invisible healing effect equal to a dragon's int)


Stones:
Meditate
Haste/Eliminate/Rally/Sap OR Bolster
Berserker/Berserker/Berserker
Ambush/Ambush
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Alternate Mire Build: 119 str/6 vit/72 qck OR 119 str/16 vit/70 qck

This is the current ruins single trainer build I've been using- I know, I know, what's with the meditate?
As you may or may not be aware, meditate applies a debuff to strength for 3 turns after it's cast (it says 2 in the tooltip but that's incorrect). However, consider that a normal mire flyer-style build takes haste and 4 scratches- or five turns- before it can eliminate: this build only takes 4. This means that against physical packs, you can take one mob out before its second turn, which is huge considering how melee based the ruins are! And you have rally up, so with this strength you can eliminate everything right off the bat.

This build happily starts against any 3 pack that doesn't contain the tatterwing carcass or shatterwing vulture. The first round turn order is as follows: meditate, haste, bolster/defend, rally, eliminate- unless you're against the faster casters (somber spirit, otherworldly aura, lux spectre, aer phantom), in which case meditate/haste/rally/defend is preferred, so you're defending while they might be casting in your general direction. Having haste on the second turn is why the quick is as high as it is- unfortunately, it's not possible to have a returned turn against anything but the wendigo and pronghorn stomper, but the sooner you can get bolster up, the better (it is possible that you could adapt this build to have lower quick and higher vit, but I don't plan to test this at the moment).

Unlike most of the solo ruins builds I've tested, this build can survive two rounds no problem even when starting on an all-physical 3 pack! This means it can be reliably used for blitzing if you so wish. I'm currently running some tests comparing the speed of training in the ruins to a 119str mire flyer (in the mire). You can stretch it to train fodder to 7 or 10 or whatever, but it may require a couple of restarts.

Pros: Can take out mobs before mire flyer-styles even get their pants on.
Can start against most 3 packs. This is huge, as it means you can restart without losing too much time.
Good survivability compared to similar glass cannon builds.
Using haste first turn nets you a returned turn with this quick, which is helpful for building up breath.
You can rally eliminate everything.
It's a fun build!

Cons: Dodges are deadly- if something dodges you, unless you have the breath to eliminate again you should restart.
Whichever way you slice it, the ruins are going to wear a dragon down very quickly.

Tips: If you have to restart and you're training fodder, dump all the fodder's stats into vit, it helps soak up damage (this goes for any single trainer build in any venue).
Water is probably a tad better over nature, as aer phantoms (wind, resisted by water) are more problematic than otherworldy aurae (arcane, resisted by nature).
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@wnznpeh Ping for myself

It's quite Interesting build. I've thought several times that if replace scratch with Meditation...
Eliminate's 35 cost-
-it mean, by using those 1 Medi + 1 any buff, then Eliminate prepared.
just 3 turn. this is huge(as you can see, the text is written).

There's a few I thought;
  • It requires frequently return; no way to recover.
    Although written to use the healing potions, but it's not attractive proposition who want to cherish the cost. They would rather choose to return.
    (well, the purpose of this build is to maximize Armor, so It may not be important)
  • It can't be effectively utilized for breath.
    only Eliminate to consumes breath.
    Ruin-solo build is always remaining breath - just to use 2~3 skills, but soon it filled.
    not be a problem If skills are often wayward, but Ruin is less likely to miss than Mire.
    It doesn't care if you don't mind-But I think it seems to be better to use the remaining resources(like...sap).
Just my opinion.
@wnznpeh Ping for myself

It's quite Interesting build. I've thought several times that if replace scratch with Meditation...
Eliminate's 35 cost-
-it mean, by using those 1 Medi + 1 any buff, then Eliminate prepared.
just 3 turn. this is huge(as you can see, the text is written).

There's a few I thought;
  • It requires frequently return; no way to recover.
    Although written to use the healing potions, but it's not attractive proposition who want to cherish the cost. They would rather choose to return.
    (well, the purpose of this build is to maximize Armor, so It may not be important)
  • It can't be effectively utilized for breath.
    only Eliminate to consumes breath.
    Ruin-solo build is always remaining breath - just to use 2~3 skills, but soon it filled.
    not be a problem If skills are often wayward, but Ruin is less likely to miss than Mire.
    It doesn't care if you don't mind-But I think it seems to be better to use the remaining resources(like...sap).
Just my opinion.
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@wnznpeh yes, those are all very good points! this is definitely an 'alternate' build, but i find it fits my style better.

unfortunately, sap doesn't really work in this build at all- since meditate reduces your strength for 3 turns after casting, it's essential to have 3 other skills you can use that don't use breath, or you have to cast one of them twice while you're waiting for the meditate debuff to go away, which is kinda redundant- also, in such a melee heavy area, bolster is actually really useful- it reduces the damage taken by around 50hp per hit, which is huge!

also, even with sap, the ruins will wear down any dragon quite quickly- for a solo trainer in the ruins, to train to level 7 you will probably have to restart, possibly more than once. and this build can restart on wayy more packs than a traditional scratch build, since it starts taking mobs out sooner- which means they deal out less damage.

also, not being breath effective isn't a bad thing, because, sometimes, eliminate misses- it's good to have extra breath, since ideally you're only meditating in the first round.

and yes, i would never recommend buying healing potions for this build, but if you have any spare ones lying around, you might as well use them, right?

@wnznpeh yes, those are all very good points! this is definitely an 'alternate' build, but i find it fits my style better.

unfortunately, sap doesn't really work in this build at all- since meditate reduces your strength for 3 turns after casting, it's essential to have 3 other skills you can use that don't use breath, or you have to cast one of them twice while you're waiting for the meditate debuff to go away, which is kinda redundant- also, in such a melee heavy area, bolster is actually really useful- it reduces the damage taken by around 50hp per hit, which is huge!

also, even with sap, the ruins will wear down any dragon quite quickly- for a solo trainer in the ruins, to train to level 7 you will probably have to restart, possibly more than once. and this build can restart on wayy more packs than a traditional scratch build, since it starts taking mobs out sooner- which means they deal out less damage.

also, not being breath effective isn't a bad thing, because, sometimes, eliminate misses- it's good to have extra breath, since ideally you're only meditating in the first round.

and yes, i would never recommend buying healing potions for this build, but if you have any spare ones lying around, you might as well use them, right?

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I have a dragon at level 24 right now, so I'll try this out on her and see how it goes. Will post back in a few days once she's fully leveled and working.

@TreeIsMetaphor
I have a dragon at level 24 right now, so I'll try this out on her and see how it goes. Will post back in a few days once she's fully leveled and working.

@TreeIsMetaphor
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@TreeIsMetaphor I'm interested to see what you think of the build- any improvements you can think of would be great!
@TreeIsMetaphor I'm interested to see what you think of the build- any improvements you can think of would be great!
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@Lamentations I've been doing the test run of this build, and I just can't get behind the lack of Sap. Since you only have to Meditate once or twice per run, I don't mind "wasting" a turn on a redundant Haste.

Besides, with the addition of a Sap to give you that extra small damage-dealer, this build works equally well without tweaks in the Mire - you just need that Sap to take down the Mossy Cerdae and the Brilliant Psywurms.

I'm going to slap that Sap on her and see if I can get all the way through to lvl 7 without restarting a run.

EDIT: Okay, with the Sap I found this build was A++ excellent for the Mire and the Ruins.

Started with a 3-pack - like you suggest, anything except the Vultures or the Kamaitachis.

Meditate, Haste, Defend, Rally, Eliminate Eliminate Eliminate.

That gave me enough breath to continue grooving through the subsequent battles. When I hit a 3-pack of mages, I did another round of Meditate, Haste, Defend, and Rally to double my available breath in case of a dodge.

In the Mire, if I come up against a pack with two (or more) Mossy Cerdae or Brilliant Psywurms, and I had 65+ breath, I was golden for two Saps and still be able to Eliminate. Otherwise it was Eliminate the Psywurm/Wetland Unicorn, Sap, Eliminate, Meditate, Defend, Defend, Rally, Sap, Eliminate.

I took two fodder to level 7, and only had to restart my run twice - as good or better than a standard Flyer build.
@Lamentations I've been doing the test run of this build, and I just can't get behind the lack of Sap. Since you only have to Meditate once or twice per run, I don't mind "wasting" a turn on a redundant Haste.

Besides, with the addition of a Sap to give you that extra small damage-dealer, this build works equally well without tweaks in the Mire - you just need that Sap to take down the Mossy Cerdae and the Brilliant Psywurms.

I'm going to slap that Sap on her and see if I can get all the way through to lvl 7 without restarting a run.

EDIT: Okay, with the Sap I found this build was A++ excellent for the Mire and the Ruins.

Started with a 3-pack - like you suggest, anything except the Vultures or the Kamaitachis.

Meditate, Haste, Defend, Rally, Eliminate Eliminate Eliminate.

That gave me enough breath to continue grooving through the subsequent battles. When I hit a 3-pack of mages, I did another round of Meditate, Haste, Defend, and Rally to double my available breath in case of a dodge.

In the Mire, if I come up against a pack with two (or more) Mossy Cerdae or Brilliant Psywurms, and I had 65+ breath, I was golden for two Saps and still be able to Eliminate. Otherwise it was Eliminate the Psywurm/Wetland Unicorn, Sap, Eliminate, Meditate, Defend, Defend, Rally, Sap, Eliminate.

I took two fodder to level 7, and only had to restart my run twice - as good or better than a standard Flyer build.
@Redfoot

What did you replace with the sap, the Bolster?

And why Meditate before Haste? I learned in the mire to do haste first because it gives you the extra round and breath.
@Redfoot

What did you replace with the sap, the Bolster?

And why Meditate before Haste? I learned in the mire to do haste first because it gives you the extra round and breath.
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@metaresolve I'm trying this out too and learned the hard way why you Mediate first. Meditate cuts your physical attack for three turns, so you have to put it first then use up the three turns by putting on the other buffs. I tried Haste first and took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out why my Elims were working like Scratch. When you do Meditate first, its debuff will be removed by the time you do everything else.
@metaresolve I'm trying this out too and learned the hard way why you Mediate first. Meditate cuts your physical attack for three turns, so you have to put it first then use up the three turns by putting on the other buffs. I tried Haste first and took me an embarrassing amount of time to figure out why my Elims were working like Scratch. When you do Meditate first, its debuff will be removed by the time you do everything else.
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@Lamentations Alright, here are my results.

Round 1 Using Bolster, not Sap. Got two fodder to level five before being killed. I think I'd prefer being able to boost my health instead of defending, so I'm gonna slap a Sap on her.

Round 2 Use Sap in place of Bolster. Same two fodder leveled to seven with no restarts. The first round is slightlly awkward because of that extra turn -- I used it for a second Haste, but don't know that it made it any real difference. After that it was smooth sailing. I was fortunate enough to not need the Sap this round, but I did have an Elim miss once. I had enough breath in reserve that I could just keep going, but I imagine that I'd use extra Hastes or Rallies to boost it if I needed too. I'll be taking more fodder into the Ruins and the Mire tomorrow for more trial runs.
@Lamentations Alright, here are my results.

Round 1 Using Bolster, not Sap. Got two fodder to level five before being killed. I think I'd prefer being able to boost my health instead of defending, so I'm gonna slap a Sap on her.

Round 2 Use Sap in place of Bolster. Same two fodder leveled to seven with no restarts. The first round is slightlly awkward because of that extra turn -- I used it for a second Haste, but don't know that it made it any real difference. After that it was smooth sailing. I was fortunate enough to not need the Sap this round, but I did have an Elim miss once. I had enough breath in reserve that I could just keep going, but I imagine that I'd use extra Hastes or Rallies to boost it if I needed too. I'll be taking more fodder into the Ruins and the Mire tomorrow for more trial runs.
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@TreeisMetaphor @Redfoot thanks for this! You know, I sort of forgot defend was an option...that might indeed be a valuable third move to wait out the meditate cooldown instead of bolster, allowing a sap. I'll try that out, you've certainly swayed me on the sap issue!
@TreeisMetaphor @Redfoot thanks for this! You know, I sort of forgot defend was an option...that might indeed be a valuable third move to wait out the meditate cooldown instead of bolster, allowing a sap. I'll try that out, you've certainly swayed me on the sap issue!
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