Flight Rising Discussion

I preferred the original, but I wouldn't mind a smidge of secondary over the wrist as initially mentioned by staff. Thankfully, I don't have any perma female fathoms, but I miss the yellow on the arm on my breeding pair fathom. It was so much more balanced and now it is all blue. I thought I dodged a bullet with shimmer being delayed with the change but alas not. [emoji=spiral sad size=1] To be honest, I don't really care too much about these minor inconsistencies as long as it looks good and it isn't too big of a difference. [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/87564115][img]https://www1.flightrising.com/rendern/350/875642/87564115_350.png[/img][/url] [img]https://i.ibb.co/jWsQ5sp/Screenshot-2024-10-12-110822.png[/img]

[quote name="MaplesHaiku" date="2024-10-12 07:11:14" ] I feel like a lot of problems could be avoided if they had more quality control before releasing breeds. I'm not quite sure how FR's art team is structured, but hypothetically, I imagine they could hire someone just to make sure everything is consistent before releasing new content. Another problem is that the error thread isn't very visible--you pretty much have to go out of your way to look at it. They do repost it when it's getting close to closing, but that only does so much. They did state the F Fathom change was going to take longer than the 45 day window, so I also wonder if they could benefit from a larger window, like 60 days. The devs have been getting better at communication over the years, but they aren't perfect. The current situation is a good example of this. [/quote] I agree with all of this. I feel like things like the whole Aboa Paisley debacle, these design choices made to fathoms for okapi, ghost, and now every secondary... these are things that should be getting seen and communicated about internally and reviewed prior to release what the actual intention should be for these kinds of things rather than leaving it up to the artists to decide and then deciding later nah it should have been this way. This particular fathom consistency issue doesn't even look at the other fathom art we have and how it's not consistent with those either- Merrigan and the other nameless 3. This feels like a decision made after these designs were finalized rather than how these were always intended to be, and makes it sort of seem like the artists aren't being trusted or otherwise makes them look like they don't know what they're doing. It's great they're communicating better with us. Communicate better with the team though and maybe we can avoid these kinds of issues altogether. I personally don't read the explanation post as "it's the users fault for not checking" but rather "we forgot to remind you guys about this and where to find it". Perhaps these kinds of things warrant a post with a link in Announcements as well? Some of it does kind of fall on users not checking, there is only so much staff can go "here, look here, the information is here"; but maybe there are other ways to bring things like this to more user's attention. Better communication about what the issue actually IS would also go a long way. "Hand/wrist" doesn't mean the same thing as "entire arm of the wing", people were expecting changes to the just hand part of the wing. It was also not clear to users that the idea was to have a similar effect that Dusthides have. And thus the actual scope of what would be changed and the intention of the design was not properly communicated. It's really great these are being communicated and fixed in a timely manner, it's eons better than the previous way several years ago. But there's still some work to do.

My best suggestion to avoid this in the future is if possible for Undel to post an image of the error and fix. That way is clear cut what will be changed so no one is blind sided.

Consistency issues within the same breed should not be a technical error. You cannot convince me that the original f fathom wing was a mistake. The event NPC has the original wing. The f pose was front and center on the announcement page. How can you have a breed in development for years and not catch it? It wasn't a mistake, it was someone changing their minds after the fact. That has to stop. All of these changes for consistency have to stop. I have never played a game where every content release was riddled with errors like this. Your playerbase can't be your quality control. People spent real money on gems to gene their dragons. I spent real money on gems to gene my dragons, including my 2 female fathoms. They need better quality control behind the scenes. Even with fathoms having a strict deadline for the anniversary, you had years beforehand to get the consistency problems in check. Ancients need to go down to one every 12-18 months. Give that art team time to really check over the genes thoroughly for all errors. It could also give them time to design more genes for the dragon to launch with. The whole point of the 45 day window was to give us a deadline where we could be sure our dragons wouldn't change. Clearly we can't be assured of that anyways.... this wasn't someone fixing a bit of color bleed or pixel halo. This was a significant change to how the f fathom pose reads and in my opinion, is a horrible design choice. It's insulting that their update post doesn't acknowledge that their own description within the error thread didn't accurately describe the correction they would be making. We thought the wing hand and wrist would get colored in the secondary color like how it shows in males. Nothing was said about making the whole wing arm the secondary color, and we have every right to be angry about that. I'm so sick of consistency problems in general. It makes no sense to be so fixated on them to the extent of changing released content. If they can't catch the consistency problems before release, then too bad. That's on them. They can't keep angering their userbase and causing us to potentially waste real money because they can't get themselves together behind the scenes. [emoji=mirror angry size=1]

[b]TL;DR:[/b] I understand that staff are human and did not do this maliciously, but I feel like they really need to learn how to [i]actually[/i] consider the userbase's opinions instead of just saying they will and then proceeding to still do the very same thing they promised they wouldn't do anymore the last time a big fiasco happened, because that sends the message to the players that they don't actually care about what [i]we,[/i] the ones supporting them and their site for 11 years want: we don't care about "consistency," we care about security that staff will honor their word rather than find loopholes around their 45-day guarantee in order to drastically change our dragons whenever they feel like it anyway. They've violated their own self-imposed rule and promise to their players in doing this. [quote name="LittleParade" date="2024-10-12 06:49:34" ] All in all, any changes to the dragon should not happen after the 45 day window. That was the whole idea of having that window. [/quote] [quote name="Teletraan" date="2024-10-12 06:53:41" ] I get the change, but I don't understand why it still looks so different from the M Fathom pose. It's like, the wing was colored wrong, yes, but now it's colored wrong in the opposite direction, but because it's "closer" to the M Fathom pose that makes it "better"? I feel like the original was wearing a shirt backwards. The fix to turn the shirt around to face the right way also flipped the shirt inside out, but because the shirt is now facing the correct way it's considered fixed, despite being inside out. [/quote] [quote name="Cheezit45" date="2024-10-12 07:38:02" ] It feels like they just ignored what people were actually upset about, told us to suck it up, and then said that it will happen again and that we just have to watch the threads like a hawk so that we know when our dragons will get drastically changed. I know that staff has been getting better at communication, but this is not the way to show and now it feels like they’re starting to brush off concerns for the sake of putting their time into “consistency fixes” that nobody else wants. [/quote] ----- I usually don't get involved in this kind of thing anymore, but I will say that staff is making themselves very, very difficult to trust, and then seemingly putting the responsibility on the community for it. The window supposedly set for major fixes like this was [i]45 days,[/i] then any major corrections were to be null and void. They then put in this change [b][i]120 days later[/i][/b] and then excuse themselves with how the community should have still be checking the thread, which wasn't even updated regularly, AFTER that 45-day window, and we should have known that their very vague wording at the very bottom of a thread locked for weeks was going to result in a sudden, unannounced change this drastic. It seems that they've broken the promise they made following the Auraboa incident, and still want to do what they want to do without regard for the community's feelings about it. I want to trust staff and give them the benefit of the doubt, but I feel like they've been making that increasingly more and more difficult over the years. Furthermore, as others have mentioned, their change for the adamant insistence on "consistency" has now made fathom females even [i]less[/i] consistent with the other poses, even beyond how downright awful it looks (with some genes female fathoms now no longer even look like they have discernible winglimbs, making their wings look like a solid nondescript block of color), and how this change should NOT have gone in, against staff's word, so late after the breed released, thus meaning they've effectively misled their player base about not having to sleep with one eye open in fear of sudden drastic changes to their dragons anymore. The reason they're using is the exact same they used for auraboa paisley: "We vaguely mentioned it at the very bottom of an error thread 5 months before we changed it, you should have noticed." Basically, "Sure we said we [i]just won't make[/i] anymore major changes past the window of 45 days, but actually we can still change it whenever we want as long as we vaguely [i]mention[/i] it in a thread before 45 days is up!" They're doing the exact same thing as with auraboa paisley, which was also "listed in the gene error release thread". The point here is that we don't care about "consistency" and we don't want sudden, drastic changes to our dragons months late, and I don't know, maybe we'd also like for staff to not try to find loopholes around their own word? Flight Rising is starting to become much more frustrating than fun, to where I and I'm sure other players can no longer enjoy or be excited for a new breed release, because we have to worry about all the "consistency errors" they'll put in "fixes" for months later, and now we have absolutely no assurance that they won't still drastically change our dragons months and years into the game against their own word. No matter how many times this happens, they still never seem to actually be able to understand that, again, [b]we don't care about "consistency".[/b] We want to be able to relax and design our dragons, assured that they won't suddenly change out of nowhere on a poorly-communicated staff whim that's not even consistent with other instances of a gene or breed. [i][b]We don't want our dragons to be changed without our notice months after they've been released a certain way.[/b][/i] Somehow, they still haven't gotten the hint about communication and taking into account what the users who are [i]financially supporting this site[/i] and basically the ones keeping it afloat the last 11 years think, even after the obelisk flair/auraboa paisley and sandsurge release backlash, and it absolutely baffles me to no end. Unless they just don't care about user input, which is honestly the message they're sending as of late, so if that's not the case they need to start communicating it by their [i]actions,[/i] not words and apology letters and fluff.

[quote name="888" date="2024-10-12 06:36:53" ] I think the worst part of all this is the attitude among the userbase that you're not supposed to interact with a new breed until a month or two after release, otherwise it's your fault that a gene you really liked might be an error and it's your fault for getting attached to it before the 45 day window and fixes are up. I'm glad there's actually communication about gene fixes now, [b]but it's sort of pointless if the threads aren't being updated. For both of the last few breed releases, the gene errors thread weren't updated for weeks until right before they were locked.[/b] [/quote] THIS is what bugged me the MOST. I'm one of those users that would check the error threads [i]often.[/i] Imagine my confusion when the threads weren't being updated with whatever current issues were found before being changed and then suddenly the thread is locked. It's a bit annoying. My overall opinion over the F fathom secondary change, however, is null here since I have few female fathoms but each having apparel that covers the areas that were changed so it doesn't effect me as much. I do agree that it needs to be changed again so that the primary fades into the secondary past the elbow, not the shoulder.

Looking at this from a consumer standpoint, what staff just pulled is akin to me buying a nice shirt I like, then 120 days later the designers show up and change the shirt without my consent.

"Oh, design inconsistencies! We have every right to do this; it's our product."

Listen. You don't have the right to change a product into something completely different after you've sold it. That's just... I can't believe we're even having this conversation. Aren't FR staff like... professionals? Don't they have people working for them who should handle this kind of stuff?

You guys need some quality control. Seriously. Slow down on the updates and actually make sure the content you release is final product quality - what you want to sell - before you release it.

This site is freaking 10, 11 years old. You guys are too old, and have been at this too long, to be making silly mistakes and pissing off your userbase these days.

You at least owe everyone a freaking familiar or something. This is ridiculous.

I do sympathize for everyone affected - this doesn't really affect me because I have very few fathoms and haven't invested much in them anyway. My obe was affected by the original flair thing which would have made him look worse, but even at that time I was okay with staff fixing it. Granted, this has a wider reach as it affects potentially all secondaries. So it's totally valid to have whatever feelings you do. Personally my biggest problem with the change is that it doesn't appear that shadows have been adjusted. They should have been. If the wings are a membrane that goes over the knuckles, the shadows imply too much tightness - there should be some tightness, but this looks wrong to me. [quote name="Varnish" date="2024-10-12 09:52:20" ] Looking at this from a consumer standpoint, what staff just pulled is akin to me buying a nice shirt I like, then 120 days later the designers show up and change the shirt without my consent. "Oh, design inconsistencies! We have every right to do this; it's our product." Listen. You don't have the right to change a product into something completely different after you've sold it. That's just... I can't believe we're even having this conversation. Aren't FR staff like... professionals? Don't they have people working for them who should handle this kind of stuff?[/quote] They do, actually. Digital products are entirely different from physical ones. This isn't a valid comparison. The same reason you can sub to netflix for a movie or series and they pull the series later. Same reason video game devs can update their games with new content and remove old. You do not physically own digital products, and you only have access to your dragon so long as FR chooses to stay up and running and host the dragon. They have the right. That said, it's not a great idea to change things in ways that make customers unhappy, because then you lose those customers or may have to issue refunds to stay in good graces. But they have the right. [quote]They've made it seem like it was the community's fault that (general use) we weren't checking the thread,[/quote] I understand people are often suspicious of staff's intentions, but I think this is an intentionally wrong read. To me it reads like they're admitting they goofed and thought users would continue to check the thread and stay updated, but have now realized that if it's closed, that's a signal to users that there's no more updates. [quote name="Seraitsukara" date="2024-10-12 09:23:25" ] The event NPC has the original wing. [/quote] This is a great point. The event NPC supports the idea that the knuckles are on the outside of the wing and the membrane covers them on the inside. It's not unreasonable to assume this is the correct expression. It does imply there was some sort of internal miscommunication, or someone in the art team was confused. Anyway, I'm in support of people voicing their dissatisfaction with the change. Though I disagree with the takes that staff are intentionally being malicious in trying to implement a fix.

oof yeah I am super disappointed that they didn't change it back... I don't think I saw a single post that liked the change, and ultimately I think that matters more than fixing the so-called inconsistency does. plus, as people are saying, the art still isn't consistent anyways, so this is my main thought: [quote name="NightGaze" date="2024-10-11 21:22:47" ] And on top of that, it still feels like staff doesn't understand why the player base doesn't like major changes: it's not just because of miscommunication, it's because players are tired of major things being altered for consistency sake when they were perfectly fine beforehand, and an obvious artist intention. [/quote] and I'm especially confused and sad in this situation because at least in the past when similar changes happened they reverted them. this time though my f fathoms are just forever going to look worse than when I first scried them, and that's really unfortunate

[quote name="@CreatesGod" date="2024-10-12 10:53:23" ] The rally to boycott over this is exactly what I mean when I say people's rage about this is beyond what is reasonable. No, I'm not going to stop buying gems and supporting the site because a change to one dragon pose's secondary happened that some people didn't like. If this is enough for you to boycott something, that's on you. I'm not going to say you shouldn't choose to spend or withhold your money as you like. But to act righteous like it's something everyone else should do? Absolutely not. I have contributed to boycotting many companies, am currently boycotting many companies, but never for reasons as small as this. To me this is an incredibly minor issue that certainly doesn't warrant me no longer supporting the site. [/quote] tbr this does way beyond people just 'not liking it' but i can tell you aren't actually reading any of the responses here so agree to disagree ig ppl are upset at the staff's response and their complete disregard for their own rules they are setting. it's not just the art change, which Is part of it but the overall issue is how the playerbase is being treated by staff, especially w that last update from undel i'm not sure the Exact number but this is the 3rd or 4th time this exact situation has happened and we have been told that it Wouldn't because of the 45 day limit (that staff themselves are not respecting/communicating clearly enough) so. yeah people are pissed off