Flight Rising Discussion

I don't know if this is just me but one of my favorite breeds head-wise is actually mirrors. I always found the masklike head and multiple eyes combined with the long, very-specifically shaped "ears" something you could immediately pinpoint as from flightrising. If someone were to draw uncolored fanart of a mirror and post it outside of FR I'd be able to tell pretty quickly vs an imp or wildclaw, so I'd love more dragons with sorta unique combos of identifiable features like that too!

I don't feel like they're trying to appeal to everyone with each breed, I think a lot of FR dragons not having as much lore built into the designs and such is just because of the nature of FR. RPGs like D&D are of course heavily lore focused, FPS type games like Overwatch of course build characters that have an existing build and playstyle, monster hunter dragons also have playstyles to compliment their designs and everything, pokemon designs hundreds of very specific designs so of course they have more variation. FR breeds, on the other hand, are made to be customizable. They don't even have built in colors, and they're designed so that different combinations of colors/genes/skins/elements can create unique and different dragons even within the same species, lore isn't built into them as much so that people can build their own lore around their own lair. They're template species made to be customized into unique characters, so they aren't going to be as unique as specific characters in lore heavy games just because of that. So I think some of the more moderate design choices are just because the breeds have to retain that level of customization.

When I first saw Merrigan I was sure he was a Skydancer before I saw the frills. Obviously the official art will likely look different, but I hope it's not just a Skydancer that goes to the gym.

I have also noticed the same head/body syndrome thing with some of the newer ancients, so I agree with the premise here.

However, the 'exceptions to the rule' breeds that people are mentioning seem to be (almost) invariably the ones that end up on the bottom of every breed popularity list poll that gets put out.
Ie. Dusthides, which do differ (at least in body shape, if not in head shape) from other ancients but had a very negative reception. Might not be the best example but there you go.

On a free site where gem purchases make up a fair amount of the game's income, I wouldn't necessarily fault the artists for trying to create similar breeds with traits that appeal to the majority. How many people will agree with a post like this and then only purchase gems to build their SDF/WCM lair?
If it's unintentional then yeah, I hope some type of wakeup call comes along and that there's more of an effort to distinguish them in the future. But I'm kinda eh on the whole thing. Anyway, I love Bogs and I hope we eventually get more breeds like that

[quote name="@voidsnake" date="2024-06-10 14:02:58" ] They're template species made to be customized into unique characters, so they aren't going to be as unique as specific characters in lore heavy games just because of that. [/quote] So are any and all playable races in RPGs. They still manage to have unique silhouettes that communicate different cultures, personalities, and connections to the world, [i]in addition to[/i] allowing customization and clothing. A dragon with a truly bird-like build would still be fully capable of wearing all the apparel and of showing all the genes, like a dragon with a more cetacean/pinniped-like body would. And those two body shapes alone would communicate a lot more character, and be a lot more memorable, than what we've been getting. And even if the majority of people didn't like them, their mere existence helps flesh out the world and show us there is more to Sornieth than dragons that all run like dogs, which in turn would spark more creativity from the playerbase at large. I don't believe you need to "directly use" parts of a setting for them to enrich your own experience of it. If the devs are so worried about putting out a breed that only appeals to a minority, they could release them as NPCs first and see what the demand is like. Even if they don't end up releasing as collectable breeds, they'd still be adding to the world and [i]making the game better,[/i] which is ultimately what I and many others want.

Also, something that just occurred to me regarding dusthides specifically: I remember a lot of people after their release said they just looked unfinished, but they liked the concept.

Dusthides have the idea of a burrowing dragon, but they're too scared to really dedicate themselves fully to that look, and so they fail at both that and at being one of the "mass appeal" breeds. They don't fully appeal to the burrowing dragon fans or to the average player. I'm one of the people who would probably really like them if they leaned harder into the burrowing thing. But they just don't quite hit the spot!

Don't half-*** two things, full-*** one thing, y'know lol.

Also I've definitely retreaded things I've already said a couple times now, so I'm going to bow out of here for now and do something else.

[quote name="voidsnake" date="2024-06-10 14:02:58" ] I don't feel like they're trying to appeal to everyone with each breed, I think a lot of FR dragons not having as much lore built into the designs and such is just because of the nature of FR. RPGs like D&D are of course heavily lore focused, FPS type games like Overwatch of course build characters that have an existing build and playstyle, monster hunter dragons also have playstyles to compliment their designs and everything, pokemon designs hundreds of very specific designs so of course they have more variation. FR breeds, on the other hand, are made to be customizable. They don't even have built in colors, and they're designed so that different combinations of colors/genes/skins/elements can create unique and different dragons even within the same species, lore isn't built into them as much so that people can build their own lore around their own lair. They're template species made to be customized into unique characters, so they aren't going to be as unique as specific characters in lore heavy games just because of that. So I think some of the more moderate design choices are just because the breeds have to retain that level of customization. [/quote] How is this different to any game with customizable characters? Why does this necessitate that the dragons err towards being thin or having one head shape rather than having a variety? What about these head or body shapes makes them unsuitable as a template for customization on the current level? [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/84fbe8d8af21b48e550b5562894c37c2/3b7cc2b7abea5450-d6/s400x600/49667db0d049300416c15a8136380ee05b79c726.png[/img] [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/3b2240b10234117e0dabd66114e27590/29fc53fee502a404-cb/s400x600/3dcf7e7a84f2b2cf001b6fb9bb6827025fd5d3e3.png[/img] [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/252a5b2c2404a3386cc7000d2d21a1a5/3b7cc2b7abea5450-26/s400x600/1930110a2ed0b8f8abda31dcd129accd00a79cc8.png[/img] This is a genuine series of questions, I just flatly don't get this point. It's possible and desirable to have multiple body types and character designs in a dress up/character creation game.

good post op. Would love to see more "beastly" and unique dragon shapes. there's so much life out there with their own interesting features to be inspired by. I've not been excited for ancients in a while since I know it's just going to be another lukewarm take on the noodle body shape. which is great! love a noodle. I want variety though..

[quote name="Isyrii" date="2024-06-10 14:11:45" ] I have also noticed the same head/body syndrome thing with some of the newer ancients, so I agree with the premise here. However, the 'exceptions to the rule' breeds that people are mentioning seem to be (almost) invariably the ones that end up on the bottom of every breed popularity list poll that gets put out. Ie. Dusthides, which do differ (at least in body shape, if not in head shape) from other ancients but had a very negative reception. Might not be the best example but there you go. On a free site where gem purchases make up a fair amount of the game's income, I wouldn't necessarily fault the artists for trying to create similar breeds with traits that appeal to the majority. How many people will agree with a post like this and then only purchase gems to build their SDF/WCM lair? If it's unintentional then yeah, I hope some type of wakeup call comes along and that there's more of an effort to distinguish them in the future. But I'm kinda eh on the whole thing. Anyway, I love Bogs and I hope we eventually get more breeds like that [/quote] IMO the problem with that mindset is that if you're trying to appeal to the same people again and again, even if they're the majority, you'll eventually reach an impasse where they have what they want already and will spend less money. I imagine the amount of people who spend on Ancients are also less that spend on Moderns overall, because the majority of people probably don't want to be locked out of an entire feature of the site (dress-up). But what about the people who want dragons that vary from the standard body plans and designs? How much money have they spent, if any? Would they shell out for a dragon they really liked if it came along? Are they just going to settle for whatever gets released? I think it's incredibly hard to say. I mean, personally, I've only spent money on the site once, to buy my first Coli dragon, so I wouldn't have to train a fully leveled one on my own, because it just wasn't worth the time for me. It wasn't for a specific breed or gene or piece of apparel. -- That aside, it's not like the 'standard' design doesn't appeal to me. I like Fathoms. They're clearly partially inspired by Cetaceans, which are one of my very favorite groups of animals, so I'm sure Ill grab a few or maybe even several unless I end up not liking the poses. I even like Dusthides, but for me, Fathoms are a step up in every way because they seem to fill a similar niche (slightly stocky standard body-pattern dragons) but Fathoms will (likely) be moderns, and so are dressable. However... I've spent less and less time on the site over the past year. Since Aethers came out, I return to scry the new dragon releases and then leave again because there's nothing to capture my attention. I breed changed two of my dragons into Auroboas because I like the visual concept, I have two Aberrations which I got during their release, and one Banescale I acquired several years ago, and that's it. It's not that I dislike the new designs, it's just that they've blended together to the point where if there's something that comes out that doesn't quite fit my aesthetic or niche, I know something else will be out soon to replace it. I have no real drive to collect new breeds knowing something 'better' will be around the corner. Another note that other people have put out there that I want to agree with is on the art quality and how that has the potential to affect preference. I don't like Snappers because of the art, not the concept. Same with Tundras. OTOH I love Bogs, they're one of my favorite breeds. I think Dusthides have really good art and it's part of the reason I like them as much as I do despite the concept not appealing to me much. I like Aura's for the concept but the art isn't my favorite because of the way the wings are drawn. I much prefer the stylizeation of the feathered wings on Skydancers and Coatls. Likewise with Obes, I'm glad for the variation, but something about the art just doesn't hit for me so, I'm a lot pickier about them. I also just kinda think that 'popularity' is a poor metric to grade design by when they're releasing them at such a fast clip these days. If a few slightly less 'popular' releases are going to be a big blow to the company, then I think there are bigger problems.