Suggestions

We are here to play with the dragons we buy and breed. To use them in the coli, to breed them, to generally interact with them. A few players have choosen to see dragons as a collectible item or a valuable asset to later resell - which is okay but is neither the sites main intend nor does that reflect the big mass of the playerbase.

A trophy room is frankly not really needed. Its a compromise for the more casual dragon trophy hoarders that cannot keep their collection fed but also do not want to miss out on the occasional breeding and coli useage (which both need energy).

The "normal" players that have full lairs or strive forward to having those are left behind. Once you are at the hardcap you have to exalt or otherwise get rid of your dragons. A trophy room where you got a well liked dragon in a practically taxidermied state feels just wrong. Especially if you got the funds to buy potential space and food to support a much bigger actual lair.

There is no reason to NOT up the cap - if senseless wasting serverspace on trophied dragons is possible in however big a mode I'm sure there is space left to assign a new cap to.

How about we just change the name to something else, maybe holiday den, instead of hibernal den, would it feel less like a trophy case then? I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread.

The team did not say clearly whether more regular spaces will be added or not, so there is still hope. Also the hibernal den can be seen as 'dragons on holiday and taking care of themselves' so they don't eat clan food or work for clan during that break. If we can work our lore around some game features such as gene change and dragon sellings, why can't we work our way around this new feature as well?

I don't oppose more lair spaces and will always love more, I just don't like the negativity of this suggestion as if this new feature will not help majority of players at lair cap at all, which is not true. When I discuss this new feature with many of my friends who are at or near lair cap, they were all excited and can't wait for it to implement, and while they were slightly sad about no news regards regular lair spaces, they all said this hibernal den feature is more than they hoped for already.

@hat17 You can call it the candy fairy toothmother.. it still a thing where you dont use your dragons...

to quote Ekon


TBH i feel that if Fr can handle open reg with the multitude of new accounts and new dragons coming in then they can handle giving us more lairspace.

For those wondering, they decided to delete the thread after 1 particular comment during a discussion between @Taarnfalk and I... Basically they jumped on the occasion, since the comment was more "complaint" than "suggestion about more lair space", and deleted the whole thread, when deleting the comment would've been enough tbh

And now, to contribute a bit, so we don't get deleted again, I wanted to add that I was a bit woried about the space in the Hibernal Den. Let's say you're going to use it (though not using it will not be rare, for reasons such as breeding pairs and stuff), then the fact that we only get 5 slots at first, and that the staff said "they are still discussing ways to expand it" (actual quote not provided since I'm on mobile, sorry) is worrying to me; I'm mainly worried about whether we will even be able to expand when it will be released, and/or if we'll have to wait to expand it, creating the same kind of hell we've been through with raising the lair caps.
IDK if I'm being clear, being about to go to sleep messes with my English a bit, I'm not sure I have the words to express this properly, even in French lol

The line about they are still looking for ways to expand both slots and tabs is worrying, but I read it as that they're yet to decide what they should charge for expansion so people will still try to max their regular lair. Even if they give more regular slots it still means we can only expand once in a while due to cost. So as far as that goes it's not much different to having lair cap raised.

Although personally I'm still hoping for a cheaper expansion of the hibernal den because it does give provide less interaction wuth the site and should cost less.

[quote name="@hat17" date="2018-10-27 13:21:33" ] I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread. [/quote] No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story.

[quote name="RedWillia" date="2018-10-27 03:38:08" ] I am still not sure where it was said that Hibernal Den won't add any new spaces? Reading through the announcement: [quote] As with its sister (the lair), the Hibernal Den will also have an Edit Mode, complete with tabs and pages, and you’ll be able to perform most of the same functions within. There are going to be a few differences: To start off, all players will receive one (1) free Hibernal Den tab (their “main” tab), and five (5) free Hibernal Den slots (each slot accommodating one dragon). [/quote] So as far as I understand, it's 200 dragons in the lair + whatever will be the Hibernal Den cap? So technically, there will be a lair expansion, in the form of however many dragons could be moved to hibernation? [/quote] The problem is that for many of us the Hibernal Den is useless because we cannot interact with our dragons in any meaningful way. It's great if you literally don't want to do [i]anything[/i] with your dragons and just want a trophy showcase, but a lot of us run hatcheries and breed dragons in general. A lot of us Coli to train our dragons. A lot of us sell dragons (either ones we've bred ourselves or through AH flipping). We cannot do any of those things while our dragons are in the Den. It doesn't matter how much additional space the Hibernal Den will give. All that supposed extra space is useless to those of us who need our dragons to be in our active lair. The reason why some of us are frustrated with the Hibernal Den in general is because it's not a solution to lair space issues. It's a very specialized feature targeting a smaller subset of players than I think the devs are realizing. It'll be great for all the G1 and permababy lairs. But not all of us are G1 or permababy collectors. If the devs really want the Den to be a decent alternative to non-storage lair space, then they need to drastically cut down on that cooldown. 30 days is way, [i]way[/i] too long. Let's say that I want to breed one of my pairs, a Skydancer pair. They were stored in the Den, so I take them out and now they have a 30-day CD before they can be place back in the Den. I put the pair on the nest and now my Skydancers have a 25-day CD before they can breed again. They spend their 5 days on the nest, but they can't be put back in the Den because they still have 25 days left on their Den CD. But honestly, there's no point putting them back in the Den...because I will be able to breed them again [i]before their Den CD wears off[/i]. Even the breeds with the longest breeding CDs, Coatls and Wildclaws with 35 days, will be able to be bred again the day they can be stored in the Den. I'm okay with the Hibernal Den having a CD period. I understand why it's there. What I don't understand is why it needs to be so long if this is suppose to be an alternative to non-storage lair space. You CANNOT make a mistake when deciding what dragons to put in the Den. If you do, you're punished with an obnoxiously long CD. And what's the point of having this entirely new feature if you can't rotate your dragons in and out in a reasonable timeframe? You might as well scrape the Den, focus solely on the lair revamp QoL changes, and give us normal lair slots. Like I said before, I'm glad that the Hibernal Den exists for those players who want it and will use it. But if nothing else is being offered to those players who need non-storage lair slots, and we're stuck with the current lair cap, then we will not have our issues addressed in any meaningful way.

[quote name="Lara8" date="2018-10-27 21:07:18" ] [quote name="@hat17" date="2018-10-27 13:21:33" ] I'm just so happy about getting more spaces to put my overflood dragons then I walked into this thread. [/quote] No, I get where you're coming from. I'm 100% always in favor of more 'real' space, but I also think it's up to individual players whether, in their lore, the hibernal den is a portrait gallery or just a separate location where their dragons can live. Just like we're allowed to decide for ourselves what it means to exalt a dragon or sell it on the Auction House in terms of our clan's story. [/quote] True, but what I feel is, since this hibernal den is a feature that not yet live, it means we, as players, can decide what you want it to mean from scratch. There's no need to restrict it as 'hibernation' or 'portrait gallery' right now when the thing isn't real yet. Lore is flexible, and I'm sure for everyone's talent it won't be difficult to come up with a few explanations that will fit and satisfy each lore. I just feel it's the 'hibernation' and the mention of 'display gallery' that had put most people off. Maybe it's not, but lore isn't a very strong argument point for this current discussion, imo.

@hat17

I think we mostly agree on allowing players to choose their own gameplay and story segregation opinion, but I also wouldn't object to it being called something other than 'Hibernal' if that improves the PR issue.

Still, however, agree with arcaneidolriots and many others that denspace can absolutely exist alongside more lairspace for those that would prefer that.

[quote name="MythNomer" date="2018-10-27 08:04:36" ] If the Hibernal den is all we are getting then I see absolutely no reason to continue on here. I feel that the unwillingness to give a public answer means exactly that. [/quote] @MythNomer This is EXACTLY how I feel! Evasive answer = dishonest answer. Yet, now that someone has pointed out how that math for 15 lair tabs with 200 vs 300 slots pans out, I am *ALSO* wondering how are they REALLY going to justify not increasing the lair cap. 200 total slots divided by 15 tabs is 13.333~ dragons per tab, while 300 total lair slots divided by 15 tabs is [b]20[/b] dragons per tab. It would make ZERO sense for them to move forward with 200 slots/15 tabs and no way to put an equal amount of dragons on each page*, so does that mean they are thinking about adding more lairspace and just want to keep it a *surprise* for all of us? (Rather than just saying ‘yes, we’ll increase the cap when the new features are rolled out, be patient!’ and quelling our agitation.) Or (this makes me shudder), they have not THOUGHT about how the numbers shake out? Which might actually be the case, as they answered the question “will we be able to have LESS than 20 dragons on a page?” and the answer was (quoting verbatim) “The new system should allow you the flexibility to do that, yes, but we're still settling details on it.” “Should” allow the flexibility? It’s going to HAVE TO allow the flexibility, or no one will be able to have all 15 tabs! *For now we’ll just ignore the fact that even with 300 slots giving you a max of 20 dragons per tab, that number is STILL ludicrous, because it makes each tab little more than a fancier version of a single lair page.