So much support. Please, please, PLEASE reconsider the implications and implementation of this feature. Eyes are a very important feature of the dragon both for breeders and those of us who treat them as characters. I don't want to breed the last pair of my breeding project - in someone else's nest for the right eye color - and discover that the only dragon that has the right colors has fifteen eyes. Or Shade eyes. Or any eyes that I can't revert to common if I choose.
Not having a way to force - or at least give the chance of - common eyes is the biggest issue here. The eye type may not be a "gene" per se but it should still be treated as such, and that includes the option to change it back to Basic. Even if it's just as an option added to the scattersight scrolls.
Speaking of which, the second biggest issue is the fact that the scattersight scrolls will be retiring. I see no logical reason for this to be the case. Players from now until the end of time will want to have access to these scrolls, and yeah there will be about a zillion brewed in the next couple of days but then *that's it*. If they aren't made available again later, someday in the far future these scrolls might become the new Imperial Scroll - and that was a Kickstarter item. Imperial scrolls have a reason to be unavailable. Scattersight scrolls do not.
Personally, I would like to see this feature treated more like genes than it is, with separate scrolls of varying prices for the different eye types, but I understand if you don't want that to be the case or if it breaks the "spirit" of the idea. But the way it is now? The new eyes are more of a detriment than a boon.
So much support. Please, please, PLEASE reconsider the implications and implementation of this feature. Eyes are a very important feature of the dragon both for breeders and those of us who treat them as characters. I don't want to breed the last pair of my breeding project - in someone else's nest for the right eye color - and discover that the only dragon that has the right colors has fifteen eyes. Or Shade eyes. Or any eyes that I can't revert to common if I choose.
Not having a way to force - or at least give the chance of - common eyes is the biggest issue here. The eye type may not be a "gene" per se but it should still be treated as such, and that includes the option to change it back to Basic. Even if it's just as an option added to the scattersight scrolls.
Speaking of which, the second biggest issue is the fact that the scattersight scrolls will be retiring. I see no logical reason for this to be the case. Players from now until the end of time will want to have access to these scrolls, and yeah there will be about a zillion brewed in the next couple of days but then *that's it*. If they aren't made available again later, someday in the far future these scrolls might become the new Imperial Scroll - and that was a Kickstarter item. Imperial scrolls have a reason to be unavailable. Scattersight scrolls do not.
Personally, I would like to see this feature treated more like genes than it is, with separate scrolls of varying prices for the different eye types, but I understand if you don't want that to be the case or if it breaks the "spirit" of the idea. But the way it is now? The new eyes are more of a detriment than a boon.
I agree with everyone who says the scrolls should NOT be permanently retired, and that we should have far more control over eye types.
I'd happily pay hundreds, thousands of gems in the marketplace to *selectively* apply Multi-Eyes or Primal Shade Nightmare Eyes or something, as long as I knew it wasn't a time limited option subject to price gouging for not even a guarantee of getting the eyes you want, and no way to reverse a bad roll.
Functionally, though, this would be so much better as a fully fledged quaternary gene, with the possibility of breeding the eyes you want and gene scrolling them. If the scatter vials must be limited, maybe just... keep them as the only option that can randomly get you any eye type, and sell gene scrolls separately?
I agree with everyone who says the scrolls should NOT be permanently retired, and that we should have far more control over eye types.
I'd happily pay hundreds, thousands of gems in the marketplace to *selectively* apply Multi-Eyes or Primal Shade Nightmare Eyes or something, as long as I knew it wasn't a time limited option subject to price gouging for not even a guarantee of getting the eyes you want, and no way to reverse a bad roll.
Functionally, though, this would be so much better as a fully fledged quaternary gene, with the possibility of breeding the eyes you want and gene scrolling them. If the scatter vials must be limited, maybe just... keep them as the only option that can randomly get you any eye type, and sell gene scrolls separately?
I highly agree with having more control over the eyes, at least to remove the eye should it come up. Having a RNG based result that cannot be changed would ruin breeding projects. Colors you can selectively breed for, genes and breeds you can change, eye color can be selected, but at this point eye type cannot. Either have the ability to revert to common or implement them as full on genes and have them inherited.
I also think the idea of scrolls to get a certain eye type would be acceptable as long as they are appropriately priced. Either that or keep the scatterscroll as a rare colidrop/MP item.
I highly agree with having more control over the eyes, at least to remove the eye should it come up. Having a RNG based result that cannot be changed would ruin breeding projects. Colors you can selectively breed for, genes and breeds you can change, eye color can be selected, but at this point eye type cannot. Either have the ability to revert to common or implement them as full on genes and have them inherited.
I also think the idea of scrolls to get a certain eye type would be acceptable as long as they are appropriately priced. Either that or keep the scatterscroll as a rare colidrop/MP item.
Here is how I think this could have been designed better:
1) The eyes stay random, but there is a way to change them that will be accessible & affordable from here on out
2) The eyes are passed down as genes and cannot easily be changed, but can be planned for just like any other gene
Here is how I think this could have been designed better:
1) The eyes stay random, but there is a way to change them that will be accessible & affordable from here on out
2) The eyes are passed down as genes and cannot easily be changed, but can be planned for just like any other gene
I don't normally post in response to updates (even when they do somewhat irk me,) but I had a lot of feelings in regards to the Eye Types release and I just wanted to put in my two cents.
Initially, I did look at this update and think, "Oh, that's kind of neat" and I do still think that it's a cool concept, it just wants for better execution. Because, really, this does throw a gigantic wrench into the breeding mechanics we've all grown accustomed to. I don't own a hatchery or anything, myself, but I do, on occasion, have very specific things I want to breed for. As someone who's been with the game since a month after it opened (still kicking myself, eternally, for not grabbing a Light Sprite when they were a mere 20kt in the AH,) I've seen pretty much all of the genes, breeds, and color schemes get released and, each time, there's a tiny adjustment period where I have to figure out, "How rare is this? How do I breed for it?" but those have always been questions with clear-cut solutions. If I want a Wildclaw, I need to breed a Wildclaw with another Wildclaw or a Coatl. If I want Spinner, I need two dragons with Spinner or one with Spinner and another with Facet or some other rarer gene. If I want certain colors, I need to tighten my breeding range. If I want Fire eyes, I can rent a nest.
I deeply appreciate the flexibility of these mechanics. The level of cusomization is almost unheard of and it is what drew me to this site in the first place. But this Eye Types addition does not fit the mold that I'm used to, that we're all used to. It is an entirely RNG-based feature that has basically zero customizational control and no way to toggle it off if it is unwanted.
Now, there are obviously still parts of this game where we accept a reasonable lack of control. Eye color can't be changed retroactively. Sex can't be predetermined. You can't breed change to an Imperial (anymore, I expect.) But, more or less, with the exception of sex, those are things that you can control with rigorous, careful breeding. Eye Types is like sex: another entirely randomized data point, but, instead of a 1:2 likelihood of one or the other it's what? 1:6? 1:7? I can't say I'm too keen on those odds.
So here's where I would like to echo some of these other folks' sentiments: definitely there needs to be a way to shut it off. Whether that be a toggle switch to hide a special Eye Type if you aren't feeling it, a scroll to set things back to default, or what-have-you, there needs to be a way for people to opt out that doesn't involve a scatter scroll that's about to disappear in two days.
There's the other thing: make the scatter scroll permanently attainable. Even if it's kept around as a super rare Coli drop, such a high-value consumable item with randomized effects NEEDS to be available beyond just two days of frenzied brewing and battling to collect. This is especially the case, given that there is another brewable item that's about to disappear off the market in two days (the familiar) that, I know, for myself, I would much rather be stockpiling in my vault right now. Ideally, the scatter scroll would transfer into the gem MP or become a more time-consuming Baldwin recipe, but, baseline, it needs to stick around in some capacity, ESPECIALLY if we're not getting some kind of normalization option.
Anyhow, I think that's all that I had to say. (My brain's still a bit foggy from lack of sleep, so I might have left something off.) Again, overall, I think the idea is interesting, it just needs some tweaking to get where it needs to be. Other than these concerns, I'm pretty excited for the coming updates that were announced. Generally, I've always had mostly good feelings about the directions FR has chosen to go in. I really hope the admins take these points of concern and suggestions into consideration and try to come up with a solution. Beyond that, I look forward to seeing what comes next here.
I don't normally post in response to updates (even when they do somewhat irk me,) but I had a lot of feelings in regards to the Eye Types release and I just wanted to put in my two cents.
Initially, I did look at this update and think, "Oh, that's kind of neat" and I do still think that it's a cool concept, it just wants for better execution. Because, really, this does throw a gigantic wrench into the breeding mechanics we've all grown accustomed to. I don't own a hatchery or anything, myself, but I do, on occasion, have very specific things I want to breed for. As someone who's been with the game since a month after it opened (still kicking myself, eternally, for not grabbing a Light Sprite when they were a mere 20kt in the AH,) I've seen pretty much all of the genes, breeds, and color schemes get released and, each time, there's a tiny adjustment period where I have to figure out, "How rare is this? How do I breed for it?" but those have always been questions with clear-cut solutions. If I want a Wildclaw, I need to breed a Wildclaw with another Wildclaw or a Coatl. If I want Spinner, I need two dragons with Spinner or one with Spinner and another with Facet or some other rarer gene. If I want certain colors, I need to tighten my breeding range. If I want Fire eyes, I can rent a nest.
I deeply appreciate the flexibility of these mechanics. The level of cusomization is almost unheard of and it is what drew me to this site in the first place. But this Eye Types addition does not fit the mold that I'm used to, that we're all used to. It is an entirely RNG-based feature that has basically zero customizational control and no way to toggle it off if it is unwanted.
Now, there are obviously still parts of this game where we accept a reasonable lack of control. Eye color can't be changed retroactively. Sex can't be predetermined. You can't breed change to an Imperial (anymore, I expect.) But, more or less, with the exception of sex, those are things that you can control with rigorous, careful breeding. Eye Types is like sex: another entirely randomized data point, but, instead of a 1:2 likelihood of one or the other it's what? 1:6? 1:7? I can't say I'm too keen on those odds.
So here's where I would like to echo some of these other folks' sentiments: definitely there needs to be a way to shut it off. Whether that be a toggle switch to hide a special Eye Type if you aren't feeling it, a scroll to set things back to default, or what-have-you, there needs to be a way for people to opt out that doesn't involve a scatter scroll that's about to disappear in two days.
There's the other thing: make the scatter scroll permanently attainable. Even if it's kept around as a super rare Coli drop, such a high-value consumable item with randomized effects NEEDS to be available beyond just two days of frenzied brewing and battling to collect. This is especially the case, given that there is another brewable item that's about to disappear off the market in two days (the familiar) that, I know, for myself, I would much rather be stockpiling in my vault right now. Ideally, the scatter scroll would transfer into the gem MP or become a more time-consuming Baldwin recipe, but, baseline, it needs to stick around in some capacity, ESPECIALLY if we're not getting some kind of normalization option.
Anyhow, I think that's all that I had to say. (My brain's still a bit foggy from lack of sleep, so I might have left something off.) Again, overall, I think the idea is interesting, it just needs some tweaking to get where it needs to be. Other than these concerns, I'm pretty excited for the coming updates that were announced. Generally, I've always had mostly good feelings about the directions FR has chosen to go in. I really hope the admins take these points of concern and suggestions into consideration and try to come up with a solution. Beyond that, I look forward to seeing what comes next here.
All the support. Please, according to this god awful chance of obtaining Primal via RNG, it should be understandable that we'll need various eye scrolls. I like the random chance feature in breeding and hatching because it's a unique and interesting feature, but not being able to revert it to common could cause intense problems to people with hatcheries.
1. Do not retire the vial. In three days players can't obtain that many vials and the vials will remain a huge necessity in the aesthetics sector since eyes on dragons are primary elements, there's no such thing as a dragon without eyes (site-wise) so not being able to change unwanted eyes in the future for a fair price is unfair. Retiring the all-six vial would be incredibly unfair to people who: a) have hatcheries b) have breeding projects c) people with G1-only lairs d) people with old dragons e) people with unique dragons f) people who will join in the future
2. Try to make two different vials: one for uncommon/unusual/rare types, one for faceted/multi-gaze/primal types. If the RNG feature needs to stay as the only option to give existent and especially old dragons these new eye types, then there should be an easier way of obtaining them without being tortured for hours on end.
3. If the scatter RNG option can be fiddled with then yes, make various eye type vials. If anything, eye types should be treated like quaternary genes and each type having their own scroll and price. Common would be Plentiful, uncommon and unusual should be listed as Common, rare should be listed as Uncommon, faceted and multi-gase as Rare, and primal as Limited (Coliseum drop and/or Baldwin exclusive).
4. Many people might be unhappy with certain eyes and they should be able to obtain a permanent, non-retiring emove-type scroll or vial so they can eventually have desired eyes.
5. Related to number 1, if one is using the all-six vial, uncommon/unusual/rare vial or faceted/multi-gaze/primal vial, the possibility of getting the same eye type that was on the dragon when the vial was used should be removed. For example, if a dragon has uncommon eyes and a vial is used, they wouldn't be able to get uncommon in this scatter.
All the support. Please, according to this god awful chance of obtaining Primal via RNG, it should be understandable that we'll need various eye scrolls. I like the random chance feature in breeding and hatching because it's a unique and interesting feature, but not being able to revert it to common could cause intense problems to people with hatcheries.
1. Do not retire the vial. In three days players can't obtain that many vials and the vials will remain a huge necessity in the aesthetics sector since eyes on dragons are primary elements, there's no such thing as a dragon without eyes (site-wise) so not being able to change unwanted eyes in the future for a fair price is unfair. Retiring the all-six vial would be incredibly unfair to people who: a) have hatcheries b) have breeding projects c) people with G1-only lairs d) people with old dragons e) people with unique dragons f) people who will join in the future
2. Try to make two different vials: one for uncommon/unusual/rare types, one for faceted/multi-gaze/primal types. If the RNG feature needs to stay as the only option to give existent and especially old dragons these new eye types, then there should be an easier way of obtaining them without being tortured for hours on end.
3. If the scatter RNG option can be fiddled with then yes, make various eye type vials. If anything, eye types should be treated like quaternary genes and each type having their own scroll and price. Common would be Plentiful, uncommon and unusual should be listed as Common, rare should be listed as Uncommon, faceted and multi-gase as Rare, and primal as Limited (Coliseum drop and/or Baldwin exclusive).
4. Many people might be unhappy with certain eyes and they should be able to obtain a permanent, non-retiring emove-type scroll or vial so they can eventually have desired eyes.
5. Related to number 1, if one is using the all-six vial, uncommon/unusual/rare vial or faceted/multi-gaze/primal vial, the possibility of getting the same eye type that was on the dragon when the vial was used should be removed. For example, if a dragon has uncommon eyes and a vial is used, they wouldn't be able to get uncommon in this scatter.
Support. I'm currently running a few different gene plans and screaming internally over the chance that I'm going to have primal or multi-gaze come in and ruin it with no way to change what ive been working so hard for.
So much support for any of these ideas... gambling is fun when it's a conscious decision, not when you do it with the proverbial gun being held to your head.
So much support for any of these ideas... gambling is fun when it's a conscious decision, not when you do it with the proverbial gun being held to your head.
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She/Her, FR +0
No worms in my username-
R e n a i w o m
I like being pinged, but not mass ones.
I often process thoughts by writing... Trying to TL;DR more.
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Hatchery
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I'm... a little too tired to read through everyone's commentary here, but full support for this, honestly.
I want a way to opt out of this change. I'm... excited about the opportunities presented here, but only tentatively. It's unfair that we've got so little say in this.
For some hatcheries, the selling point of a breeding pair is the guarantee that the eyes will match the body, as a potential representative/ambassador AND purely for the aesthetic. Taking away that is undermining a lot of the hard work and dedication put forth by players to create those pairs, and it's just.... incredibly unfair.
I'm... a little too tired to read through everyone's commentary here, but full support for this, honestly.
I want a way to opt out of this change. I'm... excited about the opportunities presented here, but only tentatively. It's unfair that we've got so little say in this.
For some hatcheries, the selling point of a breeding pair is the guarantee that the eyes will match the body, as a potential representative/ambassador AND purely for the aesthetic. Taking away that is undermining a lot of the hard work and dedication put forth by players to create those pairs, and it's just.... incredibly unfair.
I definitely support this. A way to remove unwanted eye types should have been included to begin with. I love most of the new eye types, with the exception of Shadow and Plague Primal and Multi-Gaze. I can avoid hatching Plague and Shadow eggs, but there is no way for me to avoid hatching multi-gaze.
I really wish that it had worked something more like this:
Common - Rare are natural and have a chance of appearing on hatchlings.
Faceted, Primal and Multi-Gaze could be obtained via a vial like the Glowing eye type.
I definitely support this. A way to remove unwanted eye types should have been included to begin with. I love most of the new eye types, with the exception of Shadow and Plague Primal and Multi-Gaze. I can avoid hatching Plague and Shadow eggs, but there is no way for me to avoid hatching multi-gaze.
I really wish that it had worked something more like this:
Common - Rare are natural and have a chance of appearing on hatchlings.
Faceted, Primal and Multi-Gaze could be obtained via a vial like the Glowing eye type.
