Suggestions

Edit: I’ve finally gotten around to editing this properly so that it reflects the way that the idea has evolved into something much better than my original thought! Thank you for everyone who was kind enough to offer feedback and point out loopholes!

Edit, 6/23/2017: Now that we know a bit more about Joxar's Box, I figured I would bump this back up and open it again for new feedback and new ideas. With Sprite recolors arriving in the form of Nymphs and Item recolors, the talk of Retired Items is back, as it seems the Sprites are not in the Spare Inventory Pool.

I still believe that this idea could be an interesting and engaging way to sit in the middle between "Never re-release Retired Items" and "Open the Floodgates". Please consider reading through my proposal and adding your own ideas and suggestions to the thread. It's a large idea and it probably needs editing, but the base structure of the idea is still here.



With the Joxar's Spare Inventory announcement still humming in our minds, it seems like everyone is talking about the Sprites and Bears and how Unretiring items would affect the economy as well as our trust in the Admins, etc etc etc. It's a discussion in which neither side is right or wrong, but I think the discussions around how to fairly and safely unretire items without crashing the economy or undermining the hard work that people have already put into acquiring those items are great ones to have.

My idea centers on the fact that new Holiday Items are most often retired, and then they eventually become unavailable to new players. At this point, the most obvious example is the notorious Light Sprite, which costs the Gem equivalent of 400USD and is only rising in price. New players who join a year from now, or two years from now, are going to find these items to be completely unobtainable -- and, to put it plainly, that’s just not fair.

So, how can we address this? My idea is the following:

Deity Quests within the upcoming Adventure Mode.

Adventure Mode has been hinted at a few times, and is hopefully something we can look forward to when the Coliseum rewrite is released in the future. Barring that the Rewrite will address the numerous accessibility issues that the Coli currently has, adding Deity Quests could give Adventure Mode an interesting boost as well as give avid coli-players an extra reward in the shape of a chance at Retired Items. This would also allow new players a shot at old items that would otherwise be unavailable to them.

So how would this work?

Well, anyone who has played RPGs knows how the grind goes. Hell, if you've played in the Coli, you know how the grind goes. And this is probably going to be a bit of a grind. But if we can space it out and make it so that players have to utilize other ways of play in order to complete these quests, it could take some of the weight off of the Coli.

Ways of play could include Coli grinding, Baldwin, Item hunting, Item Trivia, and more. These can all act as Time, Item, and Treasure Sinks -- and could also act as another way to Exalt dragons.

By completing the Quest, players would be rewarded by an item randomly selected out of a Reward Pool. The Pool would contain Retired Holiday Items/Familiars, perhaps a few selected Skins, and a collection of items made unique for the Quest. The older the item, the more heavily weighted it would be, meaning that it is less likely to be pulled out on the first playthrough. Once an item is removed from the Pool it is gone -- meaning that Players can only get one of each item to do with as they please. And yes: the reward pool would include the Sprites, possibly being the most heavily weighted out of all of items and requiring numerous playthroughs to acquire.

Here’s how it’s broken down in my head:

Part 1: Exploration

First, you and your team of Dragons picks a region to explore. You can choose any of the Eleven Flight Territories in any order. Your team scouts each of the regions within the territories one at a time, clearing them out and opening up the map. (Ex: The Tangled Wood consists of The Driftwood Drag, the Wispwilow Grove, the Firefox Bramble, and the Forum of the Obscured Crescent.) During this part, your team would be halted by random encounters -- fighting off enemies like a standard RPG. Each region could have a Boss Monster that you’d have to defeat in order for the region to be “Cleared”. You can complete the regions in any order with the exception of the region where the Deity lives -- you will be blocked by Dragon Guards until you clear the other regions. In order to converse with them, you must have the item dropped by each Boss Monster in your Hoard. Then the Guards will be willing to judge your team to see if they’re worthy to enter the place of their Deity.

Part 2: Gaining the Guards' Trust

Here is where the real work begins. The Guards will test your gall by sending you on a series of missions to exterminate enemies. This could behave like a normal coli experience, or perhaps the progression of enemies gets tougher as you go along. This stage could either be satisfied by 1) Defeating a certain number of enemies or 2) Gathering a certain number of drops from different enemies.

As this is supposed to be a tedious endeavor in order to balance the Reward vs Effort, the Guards will send you out multiple times. They will also ask for items from the Alchemist Baldwin, encouraging players to keep their Baldwin level maxed out. Once you complete all of their quests, they allow you to pass into the final region. However, they are not the only guards you must impress. Your team must progress through several gates that protect the way to the Deity, and each time you must complete the tasks the Guards of each Gate give you.

Some will ask for items -- some items that require high gathering levels or are simply a rare item to pick up (think: Green Throated Skinks). This will act as a time sink, as it can take a long time for players to manage to gather the correct amount of rare tier items that the Guards are asking for. To act as a Treasure Sink, the Guards will also demand that you pay tolls that can add up into the millions. However, these tolls will always stay static and will never be affected by inflation -- meaning that they will be more reliable for accessing old rewards than the player-run Auction-House. This is balanced by the time it takes to complete all the tasks -- some players may choose to simply outright purchase the item from another player rather than risk playing the Quest up for five or six times to get what they’re after.

Part 3: Getting to the Deity

This would be the hardest part of the quest, as it is the final stretch to reach the Deity and receive your reward. Perhaps here we can see the arrival of defending dragons, symbolizing all the Exalted that now serve the Deity. Battling other dragons has it's pros and cons in terms of lore, so I'm open to ideas about how this part may be tackled.

However, this doesn’t necessarily have to mean battling though. These dragons will test you in a variety of ways. The two main ways that come to mind are:

1) Some dragons will give fetch quests, requiring a certain amount of items in order to let you pass -- often multiple stacks. (No high-tier item demands here.)

2) Some dragons will give you trivia questions relating to items -- the player must guess which item the dragon is talking about and then deliver it. Failing to procure the correct item will result in a penalty -- the player than either gather the penalty items ( “Bring me 4 stacks of Bone Fragments and 1 Stack of Chimera Fangs!”), pay a fine to try again, or wait 24 hours. The Dragon will offer to switch their riddle if the player fails it three times.

I know a lot of people would also like more interaction with the Deities, and I think that this would be an interesting way to do that. Fighting your way through the region to reach the place where the Deity waits, to have them grant you a reward at the end could be a cool experience.

Part 4: Impressing the Deity

When you finally reach the Deity, the Quest is not over. Now you have to impress the God you’re facing. The Deity will demand that you bring them a number of items -- items which would be acquired from a variety of gathering methods, all of which could be themed after the Deity you’re trying to impress. Players would be expected to deal with the high-tier items again here, waiting to gather the items in question over their gathering turns (or buying from other players). This is another time sink -- these quests will not be timed like Festivals or Night of the Nocturne, so players are free to leave and return to Quests in progress at any time. This allows players to take their time, which eases up on some of the accessibility issues.

One possibility is that the Deities can demand that the player Exalt a certain number of dragons to them. This would be done in a separate screen from original exaltation -- for example, the Deity will make their demand and the player would click on a button labeled “Exalt Dragons in my Honor”. Then the players would get a pop-up, much like the pop-up seen when applying new genes, allowing players to choose a dragon to Exalt to the Deity in question. Obviously, these dragons would not give any payouts, nor would they count towards Dominance. (Idea credit to player @Hawkfeather )



For clarification, each Deity has their own Reward Pool, every pool being themed after them. The Reward Pool would contain Retired Holiday Items and Familiars, perhaps a few choice Skins/Accents with skins being a possibility in the Joxar's Box perhaps Skins should not be in the reward pool, and then items designed uniquely for the Quests.

For example, the Lightweaver’s Pool would currently contain 1 Light Sprite, 1 Illuminated Armband, 1 Sunchaser Jewelry, 1 Illuminated Sash, 1 Sunguard Chest, 1 Sunbeam Soldier, 1 Solar Blades, 1 Luminous Leg-guards, 1 Shining Golbin, and 1 Brightshine Jubilee Vista ….plus any chosen Skins/Accents and any unique items added.

A player would complete the Quest and acquire one of these items, with older retired items weighted in such a way that they would not be pulled out on this first try. The more times the player completes the Quest, the more they deplete their Pool. Once the Pool is empty, the player has to wait for new items to be added.

This must be done for every single Deity.

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Players will be able to work on more than one Deity Quest at a time -- so that if you’re busy gathering obscure items for the Shadowbinder, you can start your path through the Southern Icefields while you wait.

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Each of the Retired items to be added to the pool of rewards could be staggered an entire year, allowing room for selling and purchasing before the Quest will offer it. For example: The items from Brightshine2016 would not be added to the reward pool until Brightshine2017.

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To widen the reward pool and keep valuable items, such as the Sprites, as a trickle entering the site, the staff could design items and familiars that are unique to the Quest. @DrowsyPanda suggested Living Doll Familiars based off of the Dolls of the Deities. This could also be an interesting opportunity for player-based design contests.

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This could be a way in which to add a "hook" to Flight Rising. Upon posting my initial idea, many players expressed that something like the Deity Quests would motivate them to visit Flight Rising for more than just completing their Dailies. I've also had friends who no longer play tell me that the Deity Quests, if done well, would prompt them to return to the site and continue playing. Something like this may assist in the site bleeding users, as Flight Rising doesn't have much to keep new players coming back.

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Edit: The Recolors would not be in the Item Pools, as they are available via Joxar's Box and are currently available indefinitely, with no plan to retire them. Only the original items would be available in the Pools.

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Edit: Extra Note: This idea only contains Holiday Items, not Kickstarter Items. As KS items were given to people who paid money to bring the site into existence, they are not to be added to any of the reward pools. I do, however, support removing KS Familiars from the Bestiary. :)

Edit 2: If you're going to say "No Support" please offer more than the standard "Retired is Retired" or "The Admins said so." This adds nothing to the conversation and, just by making this suggestion, I'm obviously disregarding those two points. Nothing is finite, especially with enough voices saying that things need to change.

Edit 3: Just fixing some formatting. :/

@McAlli YO this is really well thought out, I'm super impressed by all the ideas you put into it alone! This sounds like it'd be fun if implemented. c:

@McAlli

I really, really like the idea. Putting more lore, more story into the site is something that should really be considered, and having a sprite at the end would be a definitely interesting thought.

I would like to ask about two things, though:

Would other retired elemental holiday familiars or apparel be a possible reward for multiple playthroughs? Such as the acolytes, bears or Sashes, Armbands, etc. If so, would they also be locked to one per account, or would it be a random chance after the sprite is obtained?

This option, while a wonderful idea, would very much tempt people to make multiple accounts and abuse the system. While I know that the staff are very strict and show no tolerance on the matter, being guaranteed a rare, expensive sprite at the end of this long, tedious quest would likely be worth the risk to a lot of people. It would not take long to damage the market for them, even after the staff rectifies any multiple accounts.

I think I'd rather it be a chance for the Sprite to show at the end of the quest, rather than a guarantee, to preserve their rarity, as well as any other retired elemental apparel. One per account is a good idea, as well, but again, that would tempt more people to make multiple accounts and farm the quests.

@Silverishness Thanks so much for your feedback! [quote]Would other retired elemental holiday familiars or apparel be a possible reward for multiple playthroughs? Such as the acolytes, bears or Sashes, Armbands, etc. If so, would they also be locked to one per account, or would it be a random chance after the sprite is obtained?[/quote] I think these long, tedious quests with requirements for gathering and treasure sinks could an interesting way to handle many Retired Holiday items (and holiday items only). This way, it opens up these old items to even the newest of players so long as they're willing and able to handle these Deity Quests. Perhaps the rewards could go in order of how they were released -- Sprites and Armbands being first, then the Sashes and Acolytes, etc. Or, perhaps the pool of Retired Holiday Items is Randomized and you just have to play the quest until you get all the items. I don't think there should be a chance for repeat items here, for obvious reasons. Also, perhaps it could run on a percentage kind of thing -- like, the first time you play the Quest, there's a certain chance you'll get one of the items. Once that item has been won and removed from the pool, the percentages change -- even if you end up the the Sprite last, you still end up with one. This, however. would mean playing [i]a lot [/i]especially as the years go by. Perhaps (take a drink every time I say "perhaps"), it could run on a cycle? For example, you go through the Map and acquire all the Sprites. Once the Sprite round is "clear", then you can go back and play through the 11 regions again for a different retired item. The treasure sinks can be adjusted for each round to better reflect the item? [quote]This option, while a wonderful idea, would very much tempt people to make multiple accounts and abuse the system. While I know that the staff are very strict and show no tolerance on the matter, being guaranteed a rare, expensive sprite at the end of this long, tedious quest would likely be worth the risk to a lot of people. It would not take long to damage the market for them, even after the staff rectifies any multiple accounts. [/quote] True, and I didn't think of this. My only response for this is that attempting to run two fully functional FR accounts isn't lucrative. The amount of time I spend on my account, with my ~60 dragons is a surprising amount and I couldn't even imagine dealing with a whole second account. Plus, it is against ToS, and I don't think many people would be willing to risk these retired items in order to game the system. This could be fixed by account locking the items you get from the Quest -- there's no reason to Multi-Account if you can't sell these items, right?

@McAlli [quote name="McAlli" date=2016-06-17 08:53:59] Also, perhaps it could run on a percentage kind of thing -- like, the first time you play the Quest, there's a certain chance you'll get one of the items. Once that item has been won and removed from the pool, the percentages change -- even if you end up the the Sprite last, you still end up with one. This, however. would mean playing [i]a lot [/i]especially as the years go by.[/quote] I would be way more on board for this than the guaranteed route. I mean, you're still technically guaranteed it in the end, but you have no idea [i]when[/i] that would be. With each quest lasting maybe months, it would help with the possible torrent of items re-entering the market. Many would see this as selling opportunity, though with all the treasure sinks, it doesn't really sound that reliable or even smart of an investment if you're actually looking to sell, especially if the treasure sinks outweigh the product received. Then again, that might upset players-- playing all this time, sinking in hundreds of thousands of Treasure, maybe even millions (depending on just how expensive the sinks are) and you get a bear at the end. I wouldn't be happy, lol. [quote name="McAlli" date=2016-06-17 08:53:59]True, and I didn't think of this. My only response for this is that attempting to run two fully functional FR accounts isn't lucrative. The amount of time I spend on my account, with my ~60 dragons is a surprising amount and I couldn't even imagine dealing with a whole second account. Plus, it is against ToS, and I don't think many people would be willing to risk these retired items in order to game the system. This could be fixed by account locking the items you get from the Quest -- there's no reason to Multi-Account if you can't sell these items, right? [/quote] I dunno. The Light Sprite is around $400-$500 right now, with the rest of the sprites behind that and each retired holiday apparel sitting anywhere from $20-$150. That's a [i]lot[/i] of money sitting there. Sure, you can't convert it back to actual money, but it's still a lot of currency capable of being farmed. There's currently nothing more than maybe lair space, the Fairgrounds farm, gathering and being able to breed different elements of dragons that would tempt others into making multiple accounts. Add this in, and the temptation skyrockets. Yeah, it's totally against the ToS, but my point is that the staff may not be able to track anyone with multiple accounts down before they take advantage of the system and affect the market. And when open registration finally occurs, this will be much, much more difficult to track. Having so many sinks, obstacles and then the (probably) weighted chance of the item you receive at the end might be enough of a deterrent to make using multiple accounts just wholly unappealing. (Starting to ramble lol, sorry XD) I would be very against account-locking anything, though. If someone went through this gauntlet of a quest, they should be able to do as they please with the item. Very few things in FR are account-locked and I like it that way. :D

@Domayne [quote name="Domayne" date=2016-06-17 09:19:59] I actually really love the quest idea and wish something like this was implemented, interacting more with the deities would be amazing! However I'm not really sure that it's a great way to add more sprites into circulation....because no matter how time intensive they are, They're still technically 'free'? And what would be the point of participating in future festivals if you can get the items later from the coli? [/quote] I think what McAlli meant was that the Coli would be involved, but nothing retired would actually become a drop. Like in a game, it would be rewarded to you via the Deity you're currently questing for. With the treasure sinks and having to obtain, brew and otherwise find likely rarer and rarer items as you get closer to the end goal, the prize at the end would be far from free.

@Domayne [quote]However I'm not really sure that it's a great way to add more sprites into circulation....because no matter how time intensive they are, They're still technically 'free'?[/quote] Technically. But, especially for me as a disabled person, time and effort is not "free". Also, I did say that there should be at least one hefty treasure sink. My suggestion was 90kt but it can definitely be increased. My post is focusing on Sprites mainly because they're a retired item that is kind of being treated as though they were more than just a holiday familiar - and the prices of those are only going to get worse. The current Sprite prices are unfair and basically unobtainable, with LightSprites costing the equivalent of 400USD. Giving people the ability to get something they couldn't without having to save up for literally years (as players have told me to do), while still making it a challenge to get to, is a bit more fair than "Save up for 3 years for this item that is only going to inflate more as you attempt to save for it." [quote]And what would be the point of participating in future festivals if you can get the items later from the coli?[/quote] This depends on what kind of policy the Admins are going to follow in Retiring Holiday items versus not. The Sprites are retired, for example, but the Bears are not. There's no reason to put them into the pool of possible items. Plus, the items wouldn't be added until [i]after [/i]the Festival introducing them, anyway. Meaning the profits made on quick acquiring and selling to people who want them right now would still take place. Perhaps a time buffer would be worthwhile, where the Festival items aren't added into the Quest pool for several weeks after the Festival occurs. Hell, I wouldn't even mind if the Holiday stuff wasn't available until the next year. Ex: You can't get the Brightshine stuff from 2016 until Brightshine2017, when the 2016 items are added to the Quest Reward pool. [quote]Also the item pool should include all of that element familiars/items and maybe be random? So that so many sprites don't end up going out? Even if they take a long time, they will still be out there eventually....How would the account locking work, without also locking the sprite that came from the festival itself? Also it would still devalue the prices because people will know that eventually, they can just earn the sprite themselves....[/quote] If other Retired Holiday Familiars are added, then they can go up against Sprites as the possible reward, but the point of this [i]is to get people the Sprites[/i] in such a way that is challenging, tedious, and earning them. While I feel for the people who want to sell their Sprites for a lot of cash, I also have to remind people that Sprites are literally pixels and it won't actually hurt anyone if more come into circulation. It's unfortunate for the people who spent tons of money on theirs, sure, but allowing a window for others to possibly get Sprites doesn't undermine their hard work (unless you're one of those "I worked hard so everyone has to work as hard as me even if it's unreasonable" kind of people). I want to find a balance in the amount of work a person has to do for a Sprite versus the value of the Sprite so that the least amount of people possible are negatively affected. That said, I don't think it will kill the site for more people to be able to enjoy items released in the first year of FR. (I hope I'm making sense.) Also: If the Staff can make Account-Locked ScatterScrolls separate from the average ScatterScroll them I'm sure that they can make account-locked Familiars too. The account locking will help prevent the market from destabilizing, and if people want to buy and them later flip a Sprite, they'll have to buy one that isn't locked.

@Silverishness [quote]I would be way more on board for this than the guaranteed route. I mean, you're still technically guaranteed it in the end, but you have no idea when that would be. With each quest lasting maybe months, it would help with the possible torrent of items re-entering the market. Many would see this as selling opportunity, though with all the treasure sinks, it doesn't really sound that reliable or even smart of an investment if you're actually looking to sell, especially if the treasure sinks outweigh the product received. Then again, that might upset players-- playing all this time, sinking in hundreds of thousands of Treasure, maybe even millions (depending on just how expensive the sinks are) and you get a bear at the end. I wouldn't be happy, lol.[/quote] My idea is more centered towards players who want for the sake of wanting, not for the sake of profit. The idea that the treasure sinks may outstretch the reward is actually kind of a good thing in that context -- though I wouldn't want the sinks to crest too high, lest it start getting into that inaccessible point where even the cheapest of Sprites are right now. Though, even if it did get that high, it would be a little easier because the sinks would be static, whereas inflation and undercutting constantly changes the price of things on the AH. [quote]Having so many sinks, obstacles and then the (probably) weighted chance of the item you receive at the end might be enough of a deterrent to make using multiple accounts just wholly unappealing.[/quote] Usually the purpose of multi-account is to have multiple sources of income to funnel to a main account. I know for certain that the Staff pays attention to mass amount of gifts and currency being shipped through accounts that share an IP -- it's why I'm careful about sending gifts to my sister, or my partner when they used to play a lot. In that aspect, I don't think there will be too much of a problem. I don't personally see the point in having two possibly wealthy accounts, especially when a Coli team takes so much time and money, and these quests will also take a lot of time and money. I'm not sure how we'd get around this -- because if people are going to multi-account, they're going to multi-account. I understand how this would be a temptation to do so, but I think it would just be towards the folks who are already thinking about breaking ToS anyway.

@McAlli
I'm one of those people who regardless would be on board for some type of trickle down with the sprites. I paid somewhere in the ballpark of 4mil for a Fire Sprite, right now they're sitting at 8.2mil. If someone could even get the Fire sprite at 6mil, it doesn't at all diminish the work I put into getting my own Fire Sprite. As someone saving to the Light Sprite I wouldn't be upset if someone got theirs for 30kg as opposed to what I'm looking at paying of 50kg.

I do think though that the effort put into an alternative way to getting the Sprites should equal their price. So, for gathering items, taking for example White Wolf Pelts, they drop but rather infrequently imo, a compromise would be you'd need a 4 star rarity or higher item and to have over 1,000 of it in order to progress. I don't think that it should be easier in your native element, in fact I think it should be harder. Your deity wants you to prove your worth and loyalty, they'll run you ragged. (I can just see everyone flooding Light to have an easier time with that Sprite.) Maybe, as opposed to just a Boss Monster Item, you need the Boss as well (rarity rivaling Golem Workshop Boss Fams?).

I don't think you should be guaranteed a Sprite or Holiday item at the end. Rather, new rainbow star items can be introduced and you're more likely to gain those than retired items, I'd think a fair way would be a 60/40. This increases the time it would take for the Sprites to trickle in. Albeit still faster than some would like, but gradually enough that we won't see a 3kg drop in some of the more expensive sprites.

I'm more opposed to having to answer a trivia or riddle type question. We'll eventually see guides for the answers, so the penalty would be rendered moot. Unless of course, it's a riddle where you then have to gather said item and present it. At least in that regard, guides would crop up with the answer, the items will see a hike in price and can either A act as another treasure sink, or B prove to be more time consuming (see rarity of skinks). I'd add to create a bit more difficulty, say you fail to answer the question correctly, double the penalty (so 2 hours) and then require a couple hundred of an item (so roughly 3-4 stacks) as an appeasement. Thus you cannot try a new riddle or question without this bribe.

I don't think the Sprites acquired should be account locked. This is to both help others have a chance at the sprites and add a bit to the economy. You'll have people who will see the daunting tasks and forego doing this instead opting to buy the sprites straight out. In a way, I'd like to see this take months (similarly to if you only pour your energy into buying and making a profit it'd take roughly a year to earn the gems for a Light Sprite).