Suggestions

As I clarified earlier the not attacking percentage can be quite low as not to unbalance battling. I did not include a specific percentage because if the idea was added; the admins would be the ones best suited to determine the perecentage

I think it's weird to fixate solely on one aspect of one portion of a suggestion and shoot it down dead just for that. It's not a 'play to win' scenario and it dilutes the actual significance of those concerns to fixate on a potential 'baffle' option.

That said, I don't think they need a bonus for competing in the coli apart from potentially yielding higher XP gains if they survive a battle, or some kind of healing bonus when healing other dragons (good healers at the cost of being hella squishy seems like a level tradeoff).

I really believe they should be able to be used for avatars and that they should eat less food.

+1 support

I am actually quite fond of the idea of having a [perma] hatchling-only "Coliseum" that works similar to the normal Coliseum, except with different mobs and loot (they would be items you can find normally, but they would just be different than the items you can get in the normal Coliseum).

They could maybe have one adult per party with the idea of "mommy or daddy dragon teaching their babies to kick ***." XD Or just have an adult on standby to "rescue" the hatchlings if they all get KO'd by the monsters; they don't actually have to fight and they probably shouldn't anyways.

Thus removes the problem of babies fighting with the adults in the normal Coliseum and any advantages they might be given, and this could even tie in with the other suggested features and give them a plausible reason to exist.

Hatchlings, after all, probably engage in play fighting just like real life animals do and a hatchling-only Coliseum could exaggerate slightly on that idea. Perma-babies with a certain level of Coliseum experience can give you an extra gathering turn (with a cap, of course) or slightly increase your chances of finding better loot when you are gathering normally.

I also agree that perma-hatchlings shouldn't take up lair space, or if they do, they should be given their own lair that can't be used by dragons that aren't perma-hatchlings. I have no problems with them eating food because if you actually work on your food gathering, you can usually harvest enough food for one or two days from a few turns when your gathering is high enough. Though having to eat a reduced amount of food is fine with me, since it does make sense. They aren't growing anymore, so they don't need the energy from eating so much food.

There's probably a slew of ideas that perma-hatchlings could be used for, but with the way the game is now, there really aren't any other features that they can be used for (that I can think of, anyways). xD

I've actually bought several dragons that I would've loved to keep as babies, but I've always let them grow up because it's difficult to keep up with keeping everyone fed and whatnot, and even if the dragon is essentially useless nowadays anyways it's more useful to breed exalt fodder with it than to just let it laze about your lair. Giving perma-hatchlings more purpose would probably cut down dramatically on the amount of dragons used for breeding since people would shift their attentions to other ways of earning money with their now suddenly useful perma-hatchlings.

/end two cents

-adds- why not just make it to where when a baby is in the coli its only PvE (completely normal no buffs/drawbacks). then that give the individual user a choice wither they think battling their own baby dragon immoral.

@Haven

"Small" P2W advantages are always the heralds of bigger ones. Get them in and the venom to make players get used to it will spread.
P2W, no matter how big, is the first signal of a F2P game struggling itself in profitability and longevity.

That is why I am against ideas that give a value advantage (time advantage is okay as long as it doesn't lead to better value gain [which you in effect don't get with the Boon of Fertility, Adult Scrolls, Breed Change Scrolls (those dragons resulting are still equally strong) and Scatterscrolls (Risk of value loss even)])

Oh well, you know what? Do it. But don't cry over a shrinking playerbase. Because those "second class" (From the standpoint of a financial manager they are second class as they only make them lose money) players who are treated weaker will depart faster than rats from a sinking ship.

@DragonSage
Do away with the coliseum bonuses, food eating reduction, extra turns, crafting bonuses, separate den or make them tentative to Permababy scrolls becoming acquirable for Treasure in the Marketplace.

Games like League of Legends have shown that F2P works best without P2W. So please do not suggest P2W advantages.

By turning your dragon into a perma-baby you loose out on profit in the form of offspring (either sold to other players or exalted). Adding baby clothing, avatars and skins will help equalize them but it does not address the loss off profit; you should not be penalized for using a premium currency item.

Many Perma-babies are a good thing for the game as a whole it removes a baby-factory (thus you are not adding more dragons into an already saturated market); many player who would use the Eternal Youth scroll on a dragon that looked better as a hatchling choose not to because they lose out on the profit. There needs to be a benefit that addresses the loss of profit otherwise the Eternal Youth scroll will not be utilized to its full potential.

Again if you read the suggestion they are ideas for the admin to consider. It is ultimately up to the admins on what they want to add. It is entirely possible if they do give a eternal youth dragons a purpose; it will be something not even listed. Not all of the possible benefits will be added indeed as I clarified

The coliseum changes were suggested as a way to make to give a bit of realism to the coliseum (A baby is not as strong as a dragon and enemies are going to be baffled by a baby attacking them) and they are just a possibility ("perhaps with alterations to differentiate them from adults") and if they are added they have a trade off; the dragon is much weaker than an adult and in exchange the enemies might not attack and this chance can be quite low. For grinding; perma babies would be a disadvantage as the idea is to hit fast and heavy.

Many games use a premium currency and many of them have items that give players an edge over players who do not use the currency (look at the stat enhancing items of the Zynga Mob games for an example) and the are quite successful. It is far easier to get the premium currency in FR than it is in many games: You get a free gem every day as a well fed bonus; you get gems in a variety of chests, you occasionally get gems when you exalt, you can sell items for gems, you can buy gems off other players, etc.

There are plenty of ways to get gems or gem only items without every spending any real life money on the game. I've never spent any real life money on the game and I have bought several genes, scrolls and boons from the gem market and I have also bought several from the AH for treasure. Not spending RL money has not prevented me from accessing the benefits of the gem market

The Boon of Fertility does have a value other than just time to it; as it allows you to hatch a clutch early; allowing players to cash in on new breeds and genes. Look at the killing players who could afford a Boon of Fertility made when skydancers were released. Nobody cried foul about that. Other speciality gem items can also have a value other than time. A mature dragon can go directly into the coli; many people use the maturity scroll as an adult preview which may help them sell their dragons quicker.

[quote name="DragonSage" date="2013-10-18 04:50:19"]By turning your dragon into a perma-baby you loose out on profit in the form of offspring (either sold to other players or exalted). Adding baby clothing, avatars and skins will help equalize them but it does not address the loss off profit; you should not be penalized for using a premium currency item. [/quote]The profit is meager already and dwindles fast over time. [quote]Many Perma-babies are a good thing for the game as a whole it removes a baby-factory (thus you are not adding more dragons into an already saturated market); many player who would use the Eternal Youth scroll on a dragon that looked better as a hatchling choose not to because they lose out on the profit. There needs to be a benefit that addresses the loss of profit otherwise the Eternal Youth scroll will not be utilized to its full potential.[/quote]Then make the scroll treasure-obtainable and all is good as it isn't dependant on the will of a spender and no-spenders can obtain the advantages without being dependant on spenders. [quote]Again if you read the suggestion they are ideas for the admin to consider. It is ultimately up to the admins on what they want to add. It is entirely possible if they do give a eternal youth dragons a purpose; it will be something not even listed. Not all of the possible benefits will be added indeed as I clarified[/quote]You are not an admin, are you? Think about that question, then you may notice that you cannot override an admin's descision. [quote]The coliseum changes were suggested as a way to make to give a bit of realism to the coliseum (A baby is not as strong as a dragon and enemies are going to be baffled by a baby attacking them) and they are just a possibility ("perhaps with alterations to differentiate them from adults") and if they are added they have a trade off; the dragon is much weaker than an adult and in exchange the enemies might not attack and this chance can be quite low. For grinding; perma babies would be a disadvantage as the idea is to hit fast and heavy.[/quote]Realism is already P2W, sorry. Don't make games like RL, else the miserable who doesn't have and can't have money will feel even more sad as the game becomes a mirror of his/her RL life. Don't do that. [quote]Many games use a premium currency and many of them have items that give players an edge over players who do not use the currency (look at the stat enhancing items of the Zynga Mob games for an example)[/quote]Zynga is laying off workers, they are in a financial struggle. Give them one more year and I can assure you that they will go bankrupt if they keep it up. [quote]It is far easier to get the premium currency in FR than it is in many games: You get a free gem every day as a well fed bonus; you get gems in a variety of chests, you occasionally get gems when you exalt, you can sell items for gems, you can buy gems off other players, etc.[/quote]It still depends on the will of the spender. The spender can dictate how much gem-only items (and thus gems in general) are worh. Don't give him that power. The free gems are in too small amounts to alleviate dependency from spenders. [quote]There are plenty of ways to get gems or gem only items without every spending any real life money on the game.[/quote]See above. The amounts are too small to make a difference. [quote]I've never spent any real life money on the game and I have bought several genes, scrolls and boons from the gem market and I have also bought several from the AH for treasure. Not spending RL money has not prevented me from accessing the benefits of the gem market[/quote]Lucky you. Not everyone has the time or luck to do the same as you did. [quote]The Boon of Fertility does have a value other than just time to it; as it allows you to hatch a clutch early;[/quote]The value will dwindle faster and faster, as we can already see. As such, it is only a time-advantage. No value advantage. [quote]Look at the killing players who could afford a Boon of Fertility made when skydancers were released. Nobody cried foul about that. [/quote]Because players who wait will wait until they lose value, and even gem-only breeds do lose value over time. [quote]A mature dragon can go directly into the coli; many people use the maturity scroll as an adult preview which may help them sell their dragons quicker.[/quote]Yes, it can go earlier to coli. So what? You cash in on exalt reward earlier. Does it make a difference? Nope. Is it even profitable G:T? Nope. Besides that, another option for a preview is by looking up a similar dragon using the search function. It is unlikely (there are already almost 1 million dragons in the system!) that one dragon is truly unique in colors. The genes, well, you can imagine how they'd look on your dragon if you know them already.

@Haven [quote name="Haven" date="2013-10-18 10:17:27"]but they do need to give people an actual reason to spend money on their site to keep it going and for maintenance.[/quote] That reason is extended options for look and appearance and already exists. Like in League of Legends. And it's working there. Why shouldn't it work here? [quote]FR is not this money grabbing baddie.[/quote] [i]currently[/i] not. [quote]They should make MORE things gem items, and agan, I don't even have money to spend on said items. They give you free gems every day and allow you to make more gems through random chests and referring. It isn't like the gem market is completely closed to anyone without a paypal.[/quote]Certainly, you can make gems through playing, minimum 1 per day. Yes, but how much does only just one apparel item cost? 175 days? One single boon of fertility? 350 days? The free gems are simply not sufficient to be an alternative for paying for them. [quote]And when you think about it, the gem:treasure ratio isn't that bad.[/quote]People have problems feeding their dragons, they have to shell out their treasure for food items. Not enough T for gem-only stuff, not enough time to offset the food needs. The other thing as I mentioned before is that the spender has more pull as he can say: "Not profitable. Nope, I won't sell it for Treasure." Guess what? Alternative way to evade the spender to get that item without spending $? Nope.avi [quote]The perks of forever babies probably won't outweigh people's needs to spend their treasure elsewhere, but it does give a reason for people who do want to have one a reason to waste the food and space on what would have been a useless dragon.[/quote]The currently suggested perks for permababies outweigh their disadvantages, which essentialy will make this scroll P2W.