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TOPIC | No Clanbound Apparel
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At first I supported clanbound apparel then I thought about it more.
As others have stated well, things like vistas, battlestone recolours and the like are totally fine to be clanbound.

I'll bring in a different game to contrast. I used to play Love Nikki, where the Stylist Arena (PvP style part) had an insane leaderboard that you literally needed thousands of gems and real-money VIP levels to get into the top 20 once. Leaderboards were partially reset every week.
There was a dress I really liked as a reward. Many were annoyed about how near-impossible it was to attain, but there were also other VIP-exclusive and real-money outfits so it wasn't anything outstanding. Plus, there was no trading with other players in this game. Every apparel was 'clanbound'.

But apparel on FR. Most people love the stuff. It's something you get multiples of. Naturally it has a massive market. Even fest apparel is not too expensive, and currency can be gained in several ways.
The reason I supported clanbound at first was because I thought that the leaderboard system worked similar to Love Nikki, i.e. extreme excluvisity, extreme expense and effort. Thus introducing these items to the economy could destabilise it. But after Xhatol's post explaining the incremental nature of these rewards, I believe trading them would be just fine.

I get that they want PvP to not affect the economy... but now that I think about it... why?
Why shouldn't we be able to use PvP for economic gain? We can sell pieces we don't like, and people who can't/don't want to coli get the item with currency they worked to get in other ways. It's nothing gamebreaking or economy breaking. Like the release of any other new apparel, it would most likely be hyper inflated at first, and depending on things like appearance, versatility, aesthetic, and ease of obtaining would depreciate until a certain value which would hold largely steady.

The way FR is currently structured is very different to Love Nikki. In LN, you earn everything yourself. The precedent is that there are many different ways of getting apparel, with most items exclusive to one or two certain playstyle 'areas'. To collect them all you've got to play them all. There is no trading of items. This is what FR is proposing for their new PvP apparel system.

Now FR as it is now is almost completely different. It is an open economy. While some items are exclusive to certain areas of the game like some gathering and coli drops, they can be bought off the AH. Even items earned through Kickstarter and old retired items can be sold too. The only exception are some vistas (which operate under a sort of personal achievement based system, which is quite different.)

Here's the thing. You can't introduce a closed section to a previously completely open economy without backlash. It goes against the economy's function and nature. It would destabilise the game the economy is in more than simply adding the section as part of the open market.

TL;DR
If FR wanted to make clan-bound apparels a precedent, they should've done that from the game's inception. One of the draws of FR is the many varying playstyles and how goals can be achieved in all of them, through one (well, two, t/g) uniting currency ruling an open market. They can't just add it in later and expect players to be cool with it.
At first I supported clanbound apparel then I thought about it more.
As others have stated well, things like vistas, battlestone recolours and the like are totally fine to be clanbound.

I'll bring in a different game to contrast. I used to play Love Nikki, where the Stylist Arena (PvP style part) had an insane leaderboard that you literally needed thousands of gems and real-money VIP levels to get into the top 20 once. Leaderboards were partially reset every week.
There was a dress I really liked as a reward. Many were annoyed about how near-impossible it was to attain, but there were also other VIP-exclusive and real-money outfits so it wasn't anything outstanding. Plus, there was no trading with other players in this game. Every apparel was 'clanbound'.

But apparel on FR. Most people love the stuff. It's something you get multiples of. Naturally it has a massive market. Even fest apparel is not too expensive, and currency can be gained in several ways.
The reason I supported clanbound at first was because I thought that the leaderboard system worked similar to Love Nikki, i.e. extreme excluvisity, extreme expense and effort. Thus introducing these items to the economy could destabilise it. But after Xhatol's post explaining the incremental nature of these rewards, I believe trading them would be just fine.

I get that they want PvP to not affect the economy... but now that I think about it... why?
Why shouldn't we be able to use PvP for economic gain? We can sell pieces we don't like, and people who can't/don't want to coli get the item with currency they worked to get in other ways. It's nothing gamebreaking or economy breaking. Like the release of any other new apparel, it would most likely be hyper inflated at first, and depending on things like appearance, versatility, aesthetic, and ease of obtaining would depreciate until a certain value which would hold largely steady.

The way FR is currently structured is very different to Love Nikki. In LN, you earn everything yourself. The precedent is that there are many different ways of getting apparel, with most items exclusive to one or two certain playstyle 'areas'. To collect them all you've got to play them all. There is no trading of items. This is what FR is proposing for their new PvP apparel system.

Now FR as it is now is almost completely different. It is an open economy. While some items are exclusive to certain areas of the game like some gathering and coli drops, they can be bought off the AH. Even items earned through Kickstarter and old retired items can be sold too. The only exception are some vistas (which operate under a sort of personal achievement based system, which is quite different.)

Here's the thing. You can't introduce a closed section to a previously completely open economy without backlash. It goes against the economy's function and nature. It would destabilise the game the economy is in more than simply adding the section as part of the open market.

TL;DR
If FR wanted to make clan-bound apparels a precedent, they should've done that from the game's inception. One of the draws of FR is the many varying playstyles and how goals can be achieved in all of them, through one (well, two, t/g) uniting currency ruling an open market. They can't just add it in later and expect players to be cool with it.

__snek, snek, let down your necc
_ 5RUhw7e.gifmISblcI.gifXjw0MAJ.gif
I came back to post again because I am still flabbergasted that the needs of the disabled are being so hugely ignored. I am not entitled I am advocating for a change that will make FR more inclusive to people who due to no fault of their own cannot coli. If it also benefits people who choose not to coli that is fine.

I have always appreciated the way FR has been attempting accessibility but I don't understand how anyone missed the fact that this is utterly ableist. Perhaps it is time to consider bringing someone in who could point out these things before they are announced to the community.
I came back to post again because I am still flabbergasted that the needs of the disabled are being so hugely ignored. I am not entitled I am advocating for a change that will make FR more inclusive to people who due to no fault of their own cannot coli. If it also benefits people who choose not to coli that is fine.

I have always appreciated the way FR has been attempting accessibility but I don't understand how anyone missed the fact that this is utterly ableist. Perhaps it is time to consider bringing someone in who could point out these things before they are announced to the community.
Stuff will one day go here.
Clanbound Apparel should never be a thing! The one nice thing about retired stuff is that new players can still get hold of them through the AH. It also takes more choice away from players. Say you get rewarded an apparel piece that you hate but its clanbound? You're now stuck with it sitting in your hoard gathering dust and taking up space. :C
Clanbound Apparel should never be a thing! The one nice thing about retired stuff is that new players can still get hold of them through the AH. It also takes more choice away from players. Say you get rewarded an apparel piece that you hate but its clanbound? You're now stuck with it sitting in your hoard gathering dust and taking up space. :C
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@Leopardmask Sure! Thanks for asking! :)
@Leopardmask Sure! Thanks for asking! :)
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Support

I fail to understand the whole clanbound concept. It was a BAD idea to start with - for ANYTHING - not just apparel. Please developers - take note that a bad idea is a bad idea and let's not have another fiasco like the eyes update.

If I do NOT WANT something I need to be able to sell it. It's as simple as that.
At least with genes and eyes you can get rid of such items - but I'm already ****** off with the developers making me jump through hoops to do so! Now they plan to add a clanbound item I can't actually get rid of if I don't want it. That makes the item ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

The only outcome is totally negative feelings associated with such items. People who can't get them will end up angry and frustrated that they can't get one. People like me (who coli a lot) will end up with dozens of the damn things that they don't want, and no way to get rid of them. You don't make a successful game by making people feel bad every time they see a particular item in it.


Support

I fail to understand the whole clanbound concept. It was a BAD idea to start with - for ANYTHING - not just apparel. Please developers - take note that a bad idea is a bad idea and let's not have another fiasco like the eyes update.

If I do NOT WANT something I need to be able to sell it. It's as simple as that.
At least with genes and eyes you can get rid of such items - but I'm already ****** off with the developers making me jump through hoops to do so! Now they plan to add a clanbound item I can't actually get rid of if I don't want it. That makes the item ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS.

The only outcome is totally negative feelings associated with such items. People who can't get them will end up angry and frustrated that they can't get one. People like me (who coli a lot) will end up with dozens of the damn things that they don't want, and no way to get rid of them. You don't make a successful game by making people feel bad every time they see a particular item in it.


I suppose my support for/against clan-bound apparel relies soley on how it will be obtained. Since nothing is set in stone as of yet, I'm neither for or against the idea.

I'm 100% on board if it goes by a token system where you can earn points to spend on prizes of your choice. Victories would obviously reward the most points, but losses will also award a participation point. This means that even if someone hates the idea of PVPing, they don't have to be competitive - just persistent enough to gather enough points for the prizes they want (all through losses if they so desire or don't have a competitive team. XD)
This way you also aren't stuck with prizes you don't want. (though, even if not sellable, they definitely should be meltable)

If the leaderboards are used in any way to deal out prizes... well, I'm not so on board for that kind of exclusivity. I don't mind if board leaders are awarded Vistas, but I'm not so keen on account-bound dragon customization items (such as apparel) being locked behind a user competition.
I suppose my support for/against clan-bound apparel relies soley on how it will be obtained. Since nothing is set in stone as of yet, I'm neither for or against the idea.

I'm 100% on board if it goes by a token system where you can earn points to spend on prizes of your choice. Victories would obviously reward the most points, but losses will also award a participation point. This means that even if someone hates the idea of PVPing, they don't have to be competitive - just persistent enough to gather enough points for the prizes they want (all through losses if they so desire or don't have a competitive team. XD)
This way you also aren't stuck with prizes you don't want. (though, even if not sellable, they definitely should be meltable)

If the leaderboards are used in any way to deal out prizes... well, I'm not so on board for that kind of exclusivity. I don't mind if board leaders are awarded Vistas, but I'm not so keen on account-bound dragon customization items (such as apparel) being locked behind a user competition.
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I'm on the fence for support/not support

I think it'd be neat for there to be special PVP only rewards, PVP stuff is usually for bragging rights, but I think here it will depend on implementation too.

Also, since many on the support (for no clan bound) state accessibility as an issue, I think that it's a separate, but adjacent, issue to clan bound reward items.

So I think first and foremost FR team should work on implementing and/or fixing any accessibility issues around PVP first. Once they've at least done minimum fixes for accessibility then they would have a better footing on how they can give rewards.

Accessibility fixes now rather than later would make sure that decisions (like rewards) are made with consideration for those who are disabled early on, and not several years and/or updates later when they implement accessibility that should have been included and implemented way way earlier.
I'm on the fence for support/not support

I think it'd be neat for there to be special PVP only rewards, PVP stuff is usually for bragging rights, but I think here it will depend on implementation too.

Also, since many on the support (for no clan bound) state accessibility as an issue, I think that it's a separate, but adjacent, issue to clan bound reward items.

So I think first and foremost FR team should work on implementing and/or fixing any accessibility issues around PVP first. Once they've at least done minimum fixes for accessibility then they would have a better footing on how they can give rewards.

Accessibility fixes now rather than later would make sure that decisions (like rewards) are made with consideration for those who are disabled early on, and not several years and/or updates later when they implement accessibility that should have been included and implemented way way earlier.
I was thinking about it some more.

I just really don't like the idea of clanbound items. Part of the reward from doing coli stuff is being able to sell it. I enjoy training my dragons (it's virtually the only reason I coli sometimes), but that's a long-haul type goal and it's nice to be able to see a little bit of a reward on the way. Food drops, the occasional egg or eliminate or apparel? That's nice, even if I don't want eggs or eliminates or apparel. I still get something.

With PvP, there will be no leveling for my dragons. The only reward will be the items at the end of the ranking tunnel. If I don't like the reward, I will not PvP.

It also doesn't sit well with me that they will be battle-themed. My entire clan tries to some variation of the warrior aesthetic, but it's clear that the preferred aesthetic is more "cute" or "pretty." We do have a few types of armor, to be sure, and I love them all. I love the weapons we have. But we have way more silky robes and fancy flowers and ribbons than the rough-and-tumble type stuff.

We've been asking for this kind of stuff for ages, more weapons, more rough apparel. If that's what we're getting, and it's going to be clanbound? If half the reward of getting apparel (even apparel that I want) is to be able to sell it, not only is not being able to sell the apparel disappointing for the people who can't get it via PvP for whatever reason, but it's disappointing to the people who want to take advantage of the market the staff has created by ignoring the requests for more weapons and rough apparel for years.

I don't like that we're virtually forced to participate for things that has been acknowledged as a chore rather than a fun piece of the game for vast swaths of users. That has nothing to do with accessibility, it's basically just poor design. But I doubt they're going to change it now.

I'm totally fine with there being PvP-exclusive rewards. I love that there will be rewards exclusive to PvP like there are rewards exclusive to leveling your foraging or maxing Baldwin's level. But we can sell all those things, and I love that.

I don't care about Gaolers, but mums are still valuable to me. I sell them.

I want to be able to reap the reward in the way that I want, as I've always been able to do.

I enjoy playing around in coli, I have five level 25 dragons, three more over level 20, and two more on the way to 20 that I'm planning to build in different ways for different venues and now for PvP. But part of that enjoyment is being able to see the results of my effort in training those dragons turn into treasure or gems when I can trade the resulting items to another user that doesn't have the same interests that I do.

I understand the concern about the implications on the economy. We have a pretty good thing going, but everything you add, every adjustment you make, has the possibility of wrecking the good thing here. I would be for short-term clanbound items that will be un-bound after a short testing period to make sure that things like drop rates or whatever are correct.

tl;dr - I honestly think that clanbound items are disastrous in the long-run. It makes it no fun for the people who either miss the event or have no interest or ability in participating in the activity, and less fun for the people who do participate. That means that everyone is worse off. This is not the solution we're looking for.
I was thinking about it some more.

I just really don't like the idea of clanbound items. Part of the reward from doing coli stuff is being able to sell it. I enjoy training my dragons (it's virtually the only reason I coli sometimes), but that's a long-haul type goal and it's nice to be able to see a little bit of a reward on the way. Food drops, the occasional egg or eliminate or apparel? That's nice, even if I don't want eggs or eliminates or apparel. I still get something.

With PvP, there will be no leveling for my dragons. The only reward will be the items at the end of the ranking tunnel. If I don't like the reward, I will not PvP.

It also doesn't sit well with me that they will be battle-themed. My entire clan tries to some variation of the warrior aesthetic, but it's clear that the preferred aesthetic is more "cute" or "pretty." We do have a few types of armor, to be sure, and I love them all. I love the weapons we have. But we have way more silky robes and fancy flowers and ribbons than the rough-and-tumble type stuff.

We've been asking for this kind of stuff for ages, more weapons, more rough apparel. If that's what we're getting, and it's going to be clanbound? If half the reward of getting apparel (even apparel that I want) is to be able to sell it, not only is not being able to sell the apparel disappointing for the people who can't get it via PvP for whatever reason, but it's disappointing to the people who want to take advantage of the market the staff has created by ignoring the requests for more weapons and rough apparel for years.

I don't like that we're virtually forced to participate for things that has been acknowledged as a chore rather than a fun piece of the game for vast swaths of users. That has nothing to do with accessibility, it's basically just poor design. But I doubt they're going to change it now.

I'm totally fine with there being PvP-exclusive rewards. I love that there will be rewards exclusive to PvP like there are rewards exclusive to leveling your foraging or maxing Baldwin's level. But we can sell all those things, and I love that.

I don't care about Gaolers, but mums are still valuable to me. I sell them.

I want to be able to reap the reward in the way that I want, as I've always been able to do.

I enjoy playing around in coli, I have five level 25 dragons, three more over level 20, and two more on the way to 20 that I'm planning to build in different ways for different venues and now for PvP. But part of that enjoyment is being able to see the results of my effort in training those dragons turn into treasure or gems when I can trade the resulting items to another user that doesn't have the same interests that I do.

I understand the concern about the implications on the economy. We have a pretty good thing going, but everything you add, every adjustment you make, has the possibility of wrecking the good thing here. I would be for short-term clanbound items that will be un-bound after a short testing period to make sure that things like drop rates or whatever are correct.

tl;dr - I honestly think that clanbound items are disastrous in the long-run. It makes it no fun for the people who either miss the event or have no interest or ability in participating in the activity, and less fun for the people who do participate. That means that everyone is worse off. This is not the solution we're looking for.
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I would hate to see clan bound items be part of PvP anything. The thought that I would HAVE to battle other players (and mostly likely win) to even have a chance to get any sort of apparel I would want is already a very frustrating thought and it honestly leaves me pretty bitter.

I HATE PvP anything in games. If I want to go to the coli it's because I want to coli alone. Not with others. Having items I would HAVE to do something in order to get is pretty bad, in my opinion. At least with Swipp items, Baldwin, etc. I can buy those on the AH after saving some money. I am not forced to get involved in an aspect of something I despise across all platforms. And yes, while I love Pokemon games I hate battling other players. That's not fun to me, it's only annoying.

Please no clan bound anything. Not apparel, not items, nothing.
I would hate to see clan bound items be part of PvP anything. The thought that I would HAVE to battle other players (and mostly likely win) to even have a chance to get any sort of apparel I would want is already a very frustrating thought and it honestly leaves me pretty bitter.

I HATE PvP anything in games. If I want to go to the coli it's because I want to coli alone. Not with others. Having items I would HAVE to do something in order to get is pretty bad, in my opinion. At least with Swipp items, Baldwin, etc. I can buy those on the AH after saving some money. I am not forced to get involved in an aspect of something I despise across all platforms. And yes, while I love Pokemon games I hate battling other players. That's not fun to me, it's only annoying.

Please no clan bound anything. Not apparel, not items, nothing.
We stopped retiring festival items to make sure that ANYONE could collect things.

Not anyone can take part in PVP. What happened to the accessibility part, and the weight of having to catch up?

Seriously, the more I look at it, the more I don't like the idea of clanbound apparel.
We stopped retiring festival items to make sure that ANYONE could collect things.

Not anyone can take part in PVP. What happened to the accessibility part, and the weight of having to catch up?

Seriously, the more I look at it, the more I don't like the idea of clanbound apparel.
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