As an addendum, if you increase the amount of T in the system, then you have lots of T, but the T loses buying power. In real life, money is as useful as toilet paper when countries print off too much of it.
As an addendum, if you increase the amount of T in the system, then you have lots of T, but the T loses buying power. In real life, money is as useful as toilet paper when countries print off too much of it.
Participating in Trick or Treat
I think there is a definite need for more genes. I know FR is new, and there will be more to come, but variety helps with demand.
There's no stopping mills. That's an inescapable issue of breeding sites.
You could try making breedings less successful after each successful breeding/hatching?
To where maybe a clutch becomes smaller or less likely to breed at all each round?
I think there is a definite need for more genes. I know FR is new, and there will be more to come, but variety helps with demand.
There's no stopping mills. That's an inescapable issue of breeding sites.
You could try making breedings less successful after each successful breeding/hatching?
To where maybe a clutch becomes smaller or less likely to breed at all each round?
As I've mentioned before I think that new players , new gene/breeds, higher exaltation values, and raising the dragon limit all can help with demand. But I feel like they're a bandaid to the real problem. Let's analyze each one:
- New players - new players initially have a demand for dragons, but after that they contribute to the problem by also being able to produce an infinite amount of dragons like anyone else; I feel like depending on new players to sustain the economy is like depending on a pyramid scheme to make money.
- New gene/breeds - I honestly have no idea how much effort it takes to make new genes and breeds, but it's pretty clear that the amount of effort increases exponentially each time.
- Higher exaltation values - As long as these don't discriminate by gene/breed, these will only raise the very bottom of the price floor.
- Raising the dragon limit - Not everyone is going to want 200 or 300 dragons. And if gathering mechanics don't change, it will be impossible for most players to feed so many dragons.
So these things are all great, but unfortunately, what I'm really pushing towards is a limiting on supply.
As I've mentioned before I think that new players , new gene/breeds, higher exaltation values, and raising the dragon limit all can help with demand. But I feel like they're a bandaid to the real problem. Let's analyze each one:
- New players - new players initially have a demand for dragons, but after that they contribute to the problem by also being able to produce an infinite amount of dragons like anyone else; I feel like depending on new players to sustain the economy is like depending on a pyramid scheme to make money.
- New gene/breeds - I honestly have no idea how much effort it takes to make new genes and breeds, but it's pretty clear that the amount of effort increases exponentially each time.
- Higher exaltation values - As long as these don't discriminate by gene/breed, these will only raise the very bottom of the price floor.
- Raising the dragon limit - Not everyone is going to want 200 or 300 dragons. And if gathering mechanics don't change, it will be impossible for most players to feed so many dragons.
So these things are all great, but unfortunately, what I'm really pushing towards is a limiting on supply.
Maybe exalting dragons with genes could give a higher payout than exaltung ungened ones? Of course no incredible amounts. Or any other additional rewards.
Maybe exalting dragons with genes could give a higher payout than exaltung ungened ones? Of course no incredible amounts. Or any other additional rewards.
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Noctis
Again, this would only raise the price floor per gene/breed. Not really an elegant solution, imo...
Eventually everybody's dragons would straddle the price floor, making the only things valuable Generation (which I feels penalizes excessively new users) and color.
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Noctis
Again, this would only raise the price floor per gene/breed. Not really an elegant solution, imo...
Eventually everybody's dragons would straddle the price floor, making the only things valuable Generation (which I feels penalizes excessively new users) and color.
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fishspeaker the question is: IS there an elegant solution? There are many players here who already dmenad for even lower breeding cooldowns and complain about small clutches, so I don't think there would be a positive reaction to limiting breeding more... (not that I wouldn't have a problem with it, I would actually like it)
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fishspeaker the question is: IS there an elegant solution? There are many players here who already dmenad for even lower breeding cooldowns and complain about small clutches, so I don't think there would be a positive reaction to limiting breeding more... (not that I wouldn't have a problem with it, I would actually like it)
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Noctis
There's never going to be a solution that pleases everybody, and there's going to be some degree of arbitrariness in any solution. But I honestly think some people are more right on this issue and some people are more wrong. I don't doubt that there are people who complained about long cooldown timers on starters and are now complaining about the price of starters.
But what I'm concerned with is the long-term viability of this game while making it still accessible to new users.
People argue that generation should be the arbiter of value, but how is a new player going to be able to have a chance at succeeding at this game when the only dragons worth anything are Gen 1 Imperials that have long been snatched up?
I don't think the devs should catipulate to people who only want instant gratification. But I'm obviously not on the dev team for many reasons. However, I would continue bringing awareness of the issue up somehow, so I'll keep posting.
And right now I think that dragons are still a bit too expensive to limit their breeding. But I think there needs to be action taken whether now or later. Actually, limiting breeding of starter breeds wouldn't be so bad.
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Noctis
There's never going to be a solution that pleases everybody, and there's going to be some degree of arbitrariness in any solution. But I honestly think some people are more right on this issue and some people are more wrong. I don't doubt that there are people who complained about long cooldown timers on starters and are now complaining about the price of starters.
But what I'm concerned with is the long-term viability of this game while making it still accessible to new users.
People argue that generation should be the arbiter of value, but how is a new player going to be able to have a chance at succeeding at this game when the only dragons worth anything are Gen 1 Imperials that have long been snatched up?
I don't think the devs should catipulate to people who only want instant gratification. But I'm obviously not on the dev team for many reasons. However, I would continue bringing awareness of the issue up somehow, so I'll keep posting.
And right now I think that dragons are still a bit too expensive to limit their breeding. But I think there needs to be action taken whether now or later. Actually, limiting breeding of starter breeds wouldn't be so bad.
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fishspeakers
Hmm, I have a question: how much do you think the breeding times / etc would need to be limited? I mean, if you limit it so that on average a pair of dragons generates say 20 offspring in their lifetime, then you'll STILL have supply that outstrips demand by a whole lot (people on average wanting to buy 2 dragons after producing 20). If you limit it so much that the average is something like 3-5 offspring, you'll get pretty balanced supply and demand (factoring in some exalting of uglies and some people who don't breed much), but that drastic a limit would change the gameplay a LOT. Or would even a pretty high limit like 20 be sufficient for some reasons I don't currently get?
Also, a question on the long-term viability of the game - if all dragon breed prices hit the exalt floor, will that actually make the game all that unplayable/unpopular? I don't have experience with other pet sites, so I don't know, but it seems like it might not be THAT bad... Of course it'd be better if it didn't, but it needs to be weighed against how drastic the proposed solutions are.
Btw, I don't think the effort for new genes/breeds goes up exponentially - it should be about quadratic, unless I'm missing something (adding one breed and one gene results in (x+1)^2 combinations). Still goes up, of course, but not quite as drastically... I suppose they could start making genes that only work on some breeds later on, too.
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fishspeakers
Hmm, I have a question: how much do you think the breeding times / etc would need to be limited? I mean, if you limit it so that on average a pair of dragons generates say 20 offspring in their lifetime, then you'll STILL have supply that outstrips demand by a whole lot (people on average wanting to buy 2 dragons after producing 20). If you limit it so much that the average is something like 3-5 offspring, you'll get pretty balanced supply and demand (factoring in some exalting of uglies and some people who don't breed much), but that drastic a limit would change the gameplay a LOT. Or would even a pretty high limit like 20 be sufficient for some reasons I don't currently get?
Also, a question on the long-term viability of the game - if all dragon breed prices hit the exalt floor, will that actually make the game all that unplayable/unpopular? I don't have experience with other pet sites, so I don't know, but it seems like it might not be THAT bad... Of course it'd be better if it didn't, but it needs to be weighed against how drastic the proposed solutions are.
Btw, I don't think the effort for new genes/breeds goes up exponentially - it should be about quadratic, unless I'm missing something (adding one breed and one gene results in (x+1)^2 combinations). Still goes up, of course, but not quite as drastically... I suppose they could start making genes that only work on some breeds later on, too.
I don't know much about economics aside from the basic concept of supply and demand, but I think in order to stabilize, a lot of different things would have to happen.
Adding new genes and breeds is good for increased demand, but the supply will eventually increase with breeding, so that alone is only going to be a bandaid on the problem. Same with new players.
Raising exaltation payout likely wouldn't help, but what about raising incentives for dominance? If people want the prize, they'll be exalting more dragons out of the system, but since the incentives will only go to one flight it wouldn't just be shoving a bunch of extra cash at everyone and thus devaluing currency.
I like the idea of limiting breeding a lot, I think there's quite a bit that could be done there. Perhaps as a dragon ages, its fertility would decrease, leading to longer breeding cooldowns and/or smaller clutches. And this could differ between species- perhaps rarer breeds could have generally smaller clutches in addition to their longer cooldowns, but would remain fertile longer, whereas more common breeds might breed like rabbits at first but drop off fast. I also wouldn't mind having old dragons entirely unable to breed, but I feel some people might not be into that.
Has anyone considered retiring breeds/genes in addition to releasing new ones? They could still be obtained via breeding, but wouldn't be sold in the shop, and that might slightly increase the demands since retired pets do carry a certain sense of rarity?
I don't know much about economics aside from the basic concept of supply and demand, but I think in order to stabilize, a lot of different things would have to happen.
Adding new genes and breeds is good for increased demand, but the supply will eventually increase with breeding, so that alone is only going to be a bandaid on the problem. Same with new players.
Raising exaltation payout likely wouldn't help, but what about raising incentives for dominance? If people want the prize, they'll be exalting more dragons out of the system, but since the incentives will only go to one flight it wouldn't just be shoving a bunch of extra cash at everyone and thus devaluing currency.
I like the idea of limiting breeding a lot, I think there's quite a bit that could be done there. Perhaps as a dragon ages, its fertility would decrease, leading to longer breeding cooldowns and/or smaller clutches. And this could differ between species- perhaps rarer breeds could have generally smaller clutches in addition to their longer cooldowns, but would remain fertile longer, whereas more common breeds might breed like rabbits at first but drop off fast. I also wouldn't mind having old dragons entirely unable to breed, but I feel some people might not be into that.
Has anyone considered retiring breeds/genes in addition to releasing new ones? They could still be obtained via breeding, but wouldn't be sold in the shop, and that might slightly increase the demands since retired pets do carry a certain sense of rarity?
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nika
I really don't know and I think I would need more data before making a decision. I would say a pretty large number like 12 or so, so that you have plenty of time to spend with your dragon. It probably wouldn't be a perfect solution to the problem of excessive supply but at least it would be better than no solution at all.
I just don't like the idea of swimming in a huge sea of dragons, especially with no functioning color search. But I feel that my idea is in response to something that many users are unhappy with right now (price drops for basic breeds), even if the solution isn't something most people agree with.
And you're right, I think the effort it takes to include new genes/breed increases quadratically, but I couldn't think of the right word. :p
I have no idea how much work NeonDragon has backed up or how feasible it would be to bring in another artist to help out while creating a unified art style. But still, the main issue is supply, not demand.
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nika
I really don't know and I think I would need more data before making a decision. I would say a pretty large number like 12 or so, so that you have plenty of time to spend with your dragon. It probably wouldn't be a perfect solution to the problem of excessive supply but at least it would be better than no solution at all.
I just don't like the idea of swimming in a huge sea of dragons, especially with no functioning color search. But I feel that my idea is in response to something that many users are unhappy with right now (price drops for basic breeds), even if the solution isn't something most people agree with.
And you're right, I think the effort it takes to include new genes/breed increases quadratically, but I couldn't think of the right word. :p
I have no idea how much work NeonDragon has backed up or how feasible it would be to bring in another artist to help out while creating a unified art style. But still, the main issue is supply, not demand.
