Flight Rising Discussion

@hippotang sobbing, thank you. I'm gonna ping @requacy , the dragon connoisseur, to elaborate further because I cannot, especially not after having slept for only 3.5 hours. Here's my favourite quote of theirs: "An attempt to define dragon by appearance and whether something qualifies as "dragon" enough is ultimately a foolish attempt because it inherently does not understand what a dragon [i]is[/i]. Dragons are defined by what they feel like rather than what they look like or where they live, unlike other beings in mythology. A unicorn without a horn is not a unicorn anymore but an unusual horse, but a dragon can be wingless and still recognized as a dragon. However, all of these are unified by some sort of significance and representing some sort of primordial, other power. Not to mention that what a dragon "should" look like in pop culture is more or less created by Tolkien's Smaug, who had very specific views on dragons I would personally fistfight him about. Take, for example, some of the oldest dragons in mythos: Tiamat (Babylonian), Apep (Egyptian), Illuyaka (Hittite). Then add in things like the pig dragon artifacts of China. All these dragons are represented as serpentine or multiheaded (in the case of Typhon, who is multiheaded + dragonwaisted). Or Typhon or the Drakons (what made the word dragon exist) of Greek mythology, with Drakon meaning to watch/sleepless According to some, they would thus not be dragons because they lack legs or firebreathing, in spite the Drakons literally being the word that invented dragon. Tiamat is also recognized as being a somewhat formless being. All of these beings, though, are recognized as being distinctly other and having an intimate significance because of that. All are sacred and sometimes even revered/feared by gods, or originators/connected to origin like Apep and Tiamat were. In other words, Chaos in the old meaning of the world, as the primal. (un)natural originator. Significant being. Plus, dragons were originally heavily associated with water or earth. Fire is usually later. Also, "Longma" literally translates to dragon horse (Long = dragon). Qilin/Kirin are also recognized as dragons in stuff like Monster Hunter. Me, shaking Fafnir and Tolkien's essay on him: DO NOT FALL FOR THIS SLANDER" Btw this is not directed at literally anyone here, it's directed at the shift in understanding what dragons "are" which has significantly changed and gotten reduced in the past century or so because of pop culture. [img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/ba/Sirrush.jpg[/img] Mušhuššu is also a dragon

I love this turtle dragon. I disagree with some that said the head needs to change. No. It's fine the way it is. There's so many different dragons in mythology. I see this as a version of a dragon turtle. It's so cute. I want one.

[quote name="Natron" date="2024-04-20 19:13:48" ] FOUND IT [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/810c9aac46c5012a9754c74f81f7d482/fd4294809ba72072-50/s2048x3072/e98d71e98ad4c520f1bb6ca621e0de14dd898974.png[/img] [/quote] I love this. There's more to add too. Cockatrice is just one example and can be part dragon. c:

@anky aye, no worries but also thank you so much!! <3 reminds me of Longgui! The head still was based on a turtle, so whoever noticed that is right, but that's primarily due to my artstyle and interest in anatomy hajkhkjsj

[quote name="Natron" date="2024-04-20 19:13:48" ] But speaking of dragons........they are all so loosely defined, I know it's a personal thing so don't worry, but I need to find something, hold on FOUND IT [img]https://64.media.tumblr.com/810c9aac46c5012a9754c74f81f7d482/fd4294809ba72072-50/s2048x3072/e98d71e98ad4c520f1bb6ca621e0de14dd898974.png[/img] [/quote] That's actually a really cool chat! Ik dragons can be really varied and some dragons don't even look like reptiles but for me personally I'm just really used to seeing Western more "traditional" looking dragons, along with the occasional wyvern and more common variations (mostly drakes/wingless dragons)

YEAH!!!!!!!! i like this guy. very creature. love the hexapod concept, love the Natron art

however if i was a fae dragon in sornieth and i saw this gigantic thing rising out of the weeds i would be scared out of my mind

@Natron I can clearly see it making burrows that other critters take shelter in. [emoji=coatl laughing size=1]

@dragonqueen1215 completely understandable, that IS Flight Rising's main influence after all, although they have made fluffy dragons as well and that makes me very happy (probably how and why they kickstarted my worldbuilding project)

Unrelated but I just had a realisation that so many familiars on here fall into the dragon category and I will never be the same again

Cockatrice? Dragon.
Basilisk? Dragon.
Amphithere? Dragon.
Sea serpent? Dragon.
Igueel? Dragon.
Quetzeel? Dragon.
Serpenta? Dragon.
Lionsnake? Dragon.
Buttersnake? Dragon.
Qirin? Dragon.
Crocoturtle? Dragon.

I think even a Fiendcat could fall into that category, albeit loosely.

[font=american gothic][size=4]@Hippotang @Natron I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED- Hello! So, if you want to get really, [i]really[/i] traditionalist with what a dragon is and go back to the 5,000+ year old stuff with Apep and Tiamat and potentially the Neolithic stuff like Pig Dragon sculptures (if they're dragons associated with regular Chinese dragons and not burial dragons, though, many truths can exist), then it is a [b]"water serpent chaos god." [/b] In that dragons 1. are associated with Chaos (in the [i]old[/i] sense as thing before creation, but sometimes disorder and opposed to an orderly god in Chaoskampf), 2. are associated with water/water weather/bodies of water, and 3. generally have a. serpentine shape (or... whatever's going on with Tiamat's description in the Enuma Elish) BUT! That arguably leaves out Beowulf's dragon and its descendant, Smaug, arguably the father of all fantasy dragons. Not to mention that Fire is arguably the 'element' [i]least[/i] associated with dragons throughout time. So, looking at all dragons, not just the ancient dragon gods, we can create a different definition that includes the water serpent chaos god, and many more. 1. A dragon is associated with primal nature. 2. A dragon carries [i]some[/i] sort of significance. 3. A dragon generally- though not always- has a serpentine shape. This definition is a [i]lot[/i] more freeing and, in many cases, is quite surprising! Uncle Iroh "The Dragon of the West," from Avatar: The Last Airbender. counts as a dragon through this definition. I'd argue that rule 2. is the most important, and to get that dragon feeling you really need that "I need to pay attention to this" vibe. The feeling. Arguably, this is what makes a dragon different from some other mythic entities like the Pegasus. If I take the wings off the Pegasus, it is no longer the Pegasus, and arguably more like his brother Chrysaor (a guy with a gold sword). A manticore without a scorpion tail is a Sphinx. But I can take off the wings of a dragon, or I could add a hundred wings, and- so long as it still [i]feels[/i] like a dragon, then it [i]is[/i] a dragon! This is why arguing whether a wyvern is a dragon or not is kinda pointless, since it tries to apply the morphologic argument onto something that lacks it. A dragon is a shapeless, primeval, recognizable thing, like Chaos. A dragon is what someone feels when looking at an eclipse, when witnessing an exploding volcano, when glancing at the universe and knowing how young you are, and all the awe, terror, and [i]wonder[/i] that brings. What does this mean for Flight Rising? Well, all of our dragons are dragons, since they're given significance to the story, but this also means that stuff like quite a few of the Familiars count as dragons, so long as they have a 'weight' to them in the world of Flight Rising. But, potentially, most of the Bosses of Flight Rising are dragons as well, and so is the Shade, which matches the old description the most. But, FR has its own rules, so they technically don't count for this world [emoji=undertide tongue size=1]

@Requacy don't forget fossils influencing the mythology of dragons. A random person coming across the skull in a rock of something monstrous would be terrifying to most back then. Before dinosaurs were called dinosaurs.