Flight Rising Discussion

[quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 08:23:14" ] The dragon based off of a moth has a round head like a moth. The dragon based off of a shark has a wedge shaped head like a shark. The dragon based off of an eel has a long hooked snout like an eel. The dragon based off of a snake has a shovel shaped head like a snake. It's not that deep. [/quote] but is it not fair to point out that these character design choices, in practice, look very similar? Regardless of the inspiration coming from different animals, it doesn't change the [i]visual effect[/i] of the shape language here, which is what I'm talking about.

I think what mainly I wish is more variety in character shapes. I like designing characters, and to me while the look of the new breed looks interesting, if you black out the entire thing, it just looks like another boring dragon.


Personally, I think that's why so many people are upset (or part of the reason) is because it just, doesn't look "earthy". The design, yeah, but body shape not really. Earthy is more sharp but curved, like rocks and boulders. The silhouette is just boring.

And this is just what I think anyways.

[quote name="sixthdoctor" date="2024-04-18 08:45:56" ] [quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 08:23:14" ] The dragon based off of a moth has a round head like a moth. The dragon based off of a shark has a wedge shaped head like a shark. The dragon based off of an eel has a long hooked snout like an eel. The dragon based off of a snake has a shovel shaped head like a snake. It's not that deep. [/quote] but is it not fair to point out that these character design choices, in practice, look very similar? Regardless of the inspiration coming from different animals, it doesn't change the [i]visual effect[/i] of the shape language here, which is what I'm talking about. [/quote] I think reducing your criticism to short face vs long face is disingenuous. There's a lot more to shape language than this. Sandsurges and dusthides have the most legitimate case of same face and even then you've got to ignore stuff like eye size, horns, frills, teeth shape, ect. Sandys and dustys have [i]distinctly[/i] different vibes. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=25&element=2&eyetype=13&gender=1&tert=6&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=b521f99e935a958678d06d85adf1cc6a77770afc&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Curious and pleased to meet you. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=23&element=2&eyetype=13&gender=1&tert=6&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=89fec1b47b5d914b53f0cf2e3060a3e3a2d5bc75&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Proud and vigilant, perhaps a little vain. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=25&element=2&eyetype=13&gender=0&tert=6&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=e417ad87ad29b981e41d5229f43af8d8547108bf&dummyext=prev.png[/img] A goofy, playful little guy. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=23&element=2&eyetype=13&gender=0&tert=6&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=f85930ac6b5840298b0fa9526ea3af1f73795782&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Powerful, intimidating, and just might be about to wreck your house. Notice how many more sharp edges the sandsurge design has, how much smaller the eyes are? There's a lot being communicated here that you're simply glossing over.

[quote name="PeachyGremlin" date="2024-04-18 03:57:21" ] An aside...while Nico Marlet's character design is lovely, they are also highly stylized. His designs are childish, fun and fit the main target audience. They are great pieces, though I personally wouldn't have joined this site if they were heavily inspired by his work. [/quote] I'm sorry but please, I am [i]not[/i] saying the art style of the website should have the same design sensibilities as nico marlet or anything like that. I was making an argument specifically against people saying that [i]you can't have interesting or dynamic dragon designs unless they're very thin[/i] by bringing up an artist who makes interesting and dynamic dragon designs that are often fat or bulky. My argument here is that the dragons /in the art style of this website/could easily have a few more body types or animal inspirations outside of thin and wormy. This isn't exclusive to overly stylized or "childish" art, it's just a reality of how many animals (and people!) look.

[quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 09:10:31" ] [quote name="sixthdoctor" date="2024-04-18 08:45:56" ] [quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 08:23:14" ] The dragon based off of a moth has a round head like a moth. The dragon based off of a shark has a wedge shaped head like a shark. The dragon based off of an eel has a long hooked snout like an eel. The dragon based off of a snake has a shovel shaped head like a snake. It's not that deep. [/quote] but is it not fair to point out that these character design choices, in practice, look very similar? Regardless of the inspiration coming from different animals, it doesn't change the [i]visual effect[/i] of the shape language here, which is what I'm talking about. [/quote] I think reducing your criticism to short face vs long face is disingenuous. There's a lot more to shape language than this. Sandsurges and dusthides have the most legitimate case of same face and even then you've got to ignore stuff like eye size, horns, frills, teeth shape, ect. Sandys and dustys have [i]distinctly[/i] different vibes. (...) [/quote] If you look over dragons' poses on the sprites you might probably notice their faces look the same. Short round snouts with round eyes. Round big heads. Nostrils placed in the same spot, in the same shape. Difference being one is bald and other has massive horns. Remove them, and you've the same creature. Pose and how much character each one has, if one looks like joyous little child, ready for yet another adventure, and other looks like it has commited tax fraud and will do that again, because their poses imply that, has little to nothing to do with that, in this case.

[quote name="@PeachyGremlin" date="2024-04-18 09:10:40" ] [quote name="ThousandLights" date="2024-04-18 03:57:21" ] Can they just STOP with the pug faces? Dusthides, auraboas, aethers and Sandsurges have the exact same face shape to the point that we can assume the rest of ancients are going to have it... [/quote] The following is my interpretation of snout length by [i]eye-balling[/i] nostril position to eyes (interpretations may vary) so [b]in order of ancient release :[/b] [LIST] [*]Gaolers [medium] [*]Banescale [medium] [*]Veilspun [long] [*]Aberrations [long] [*]Undertides [medium] [*]Aethers [flat] [*]Sandsurges [short] [*]Auraboas [very short] [*]Dusthides [very short] [/LIST] There is variety among even the shortest of snouts. If you merge them into just two categories, you end up with 4 short and 5 long. I think suggesting a snout-length conspiracy is going too far, lol. If you look at the big picture, each dragon has unique themes or inspirations going on, i.e. why I would call an aether a monkey-moth while another bug-like dragon, veils, danger faerie. Moderns do have more variety in chin sizes and facial "ornaments" - ridgeback noses, snappers with extra big chins, guardians with more forward lower jaws, skydancers have beaks (but also one of the more typical faces)...and then the fae just has no obvious lower jaw. XD But speaking of uniqueness, the only non-ornament-headed dragon is now an ancient, the dusthide. An aside...while Nico Marlet's character design is lovely, they are also highly stylized. His designs are childish, fun and fit the main target audience. They are great pieces, though I personally wouldn't have joined this site if they were heavily inspired by his work. [/quote] Very well articulated.

[quote name="Lupiglaa" date="2024-04-18 09:44:16" ] [quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 09:10:31" ] [quote name="sixthdoctor" date="2024-04-18 08:45:56" ] [quote name="Likewise" date="2024-04-18 08:23:14" ] The dragon based off of a moth has a round head like a moth. The dragon based off of a shark has a wedge shaped head like a shark. The dragon based off of an eel has a long hooked snout like an eel. The dragon based off of a snake has a shovel shaped head like a snake. It's not that deep. [/quote] but is it not fair to point out that these character design choices, in practice, look very similar? Regardless of the inspiration coming from different animals, it doesn't change the [i]visual effect[/i] of the shape language here, which is what I'm talking about. [/quote] I think reducing your criticism to short face vs long face is disingenuous. There's a lot more to shape language than this. Sandsurges and dusthides have the most legitimate case of same face and even then you've got to ignore stuff like eye size, horns, frills, teeth shape, ect. Sandys and dustys have [i]distinctly[/i] different vibes. (...) [/quote] If you look over dragons' poses on the sprites you might probably notice their faces look the same. Short round snouts with round eyes. Round big heads. Nostrils placed in the same spot, in the same shape. Difference being one is bald and other has massive horns. Remove them, and you've the same creature. Pose and how much character each one has, if one looks like joyous little child, ready for yet another adventure, and other looks like it has commited tax fraud and will do that again, because their poses imply that, has little to nothing to do with that, in this case. [/quote] I guess I don't really see how this argument makes any sense because, of course, if you removed all of the defining features of a certain breed, they'd all look the same... And since apparently poses have little to nothing to do with that, and we're just focusing on the body and head shape, Coatls and Fae are stupidly similar with the short face, long body, and curly tail... Wildclaws and Skydancers both have a bird-like head, feathers, and long bodies... are we forgetting Imperials and Pearlcatchers are literally the exact same dragon at different lengths? Not to mention, there's only so much you can do to the face of a dragon to keep it unique. Different jaw sizes? Oop, looks like a Guardian. Long snout? Ridgeback. Cow-like? Obelisk.

[quote name="Lupiglaa" date="2024-04-18 09:44:16" ]If you look over dragons' poses on the sprites you might probably notice their faces look the same. Short round snouts with round eyes. Round big heads. Nostrils placed in the same spot, in the same shape. Difference being one is bald and other has massive horns. Remove them, and you've the same creature. Pose and how much character each one has, if one looks like joyous little child, ready for yet another adventure, and other looks like it has commited tax fraud and will do that again, because their poses imply that, has little to nothing to do with that, in this case. [/quote] Similar but not identical. You can see this clearly in their hatchling sprites. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=25&element=9&eyetype=13&gender=1&tert=121&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=7d1b0bcaf939d2d1bc52ba0d3b7a675c9b3695fd&dummyext=prev.png[/img] - large round eyes - flat, box shaped snout - no visible brow ridge [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=23&element=9&eyetype=13&gender=1&tert=121&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=d2d57602694786e19e1264c4d336b5f58f40a3a5&dummyext=prev.png[/img] - smaller angular eyes - pointed, football shaped snout - prominent brow ridge Their heads are of similar size as hatchlings, but you may notice as adults that sandys have very small heads compared to the size of their bodies, so saying they both have large heads doesn't make a lick of sense. I've seen people call these heads copy-pasted and that is frankly insulting to the artists. Now I did say that they are the worst offers of same face among the ancients, but again, I think it's disingenuous to reduce a creature's entire design down to its base essentials and claim that makes them the same. In terms of body design, dustys are closer to gaolers than sandys. They're short necked and stocky with long tails. They actually have a bit more pudge on them than gaolers, who appear to be pure muscle covered in a layer of fluff. To add to that, I feel like OP's line drawings are a bit... selective. Their example for banes is the female pose. The male pose shows a considerably larger belly. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=18&element=1&eyetype=3&gender=0&tert=10&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=2f6f157c41d501c14559fdb5284aa93f1659ef04&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Female gaolers appear to be more noodley than male gaolers. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=17&element=1&eyetype=3&gender=1&tert=10&tertgene=0&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=9cb7df71a94e68a0e4238bcdd9184a8b55c0a10f&dummyext=prev.png[/img] Aether's sixth set of limbs was omitted (scales added for visibility) and their tail was drawn over as if it tapers to a point when it ends in a bulb. [img]https://www1.flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=1&body=2&bodygene=0&breed=22&element=1&eyetype=3&gender=1&tert=144&tertgene=147&winggene=0&wings=2&auth=8c155f656c1029adaf73e19a62147dc279a25170&dummyext=prev.png[/img] I also find it odd that [i]wings[/i] are not included in OP's definition of "body plan" despite being the most defining feature of all FR dragons.