Odd question:
Is there only one population of Dusthides? Because if there are multiple populations of the breed then those different populations might have different perspectives on events or different versions of myths, right? Or does the breed have a single culture that is the same across the entirety of all populations?
Because I don't know if the implications of that is better or worse.
Like either way it doesn't feel right, as though dragon populations are somehow more uniform than human populations or they're not as good at keeping track of events. Both are just off...
Odd question:
Is there only one population of Dusthides? Because if there are multiple populations of the breed then those different populations might have different perspectives on events or different versions of myths, right? Or does the breed have a single culture that is the same across the entirety of all populations?
Because I don't know if the implications of that is better or worse.
Like either way it doesn't feel right, as though dragon populations are somehow more uniform than human populations or they're not as good at keeping track of events. Both are just off...
[quote name="PunkNoctis" date="2024-04-17 16:08:52" ]
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
[/quote]
@PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
PunkNoctis wrote on 2024-04-17 16:08:52:
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
@
PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
@
bulrush It's a bit bonkers when looking at it objectively. The final resting place of the survivors were found sooner and excavated earlier as it was a bit more obvious where it was; it was only really the exact location of the wrecks that was truly debated.
Some of it is that historically, they thought you would never be able to find the ships again due to the limitations of technology, and as time went on the oral history was just brushed to the side and some of it is how expensive and hard it is to do archaeology in such extreme conditions even in modern times. Climate change has also effected the ice in the area so it became a bit more urgent to find and study the wrecks as they start to degrade faster when the sea temperatures get warmer.
@
bulrush It's a bit bonkers when looking at it objectively. The final resting place of the survivors were found sooner and excavated earlier as it was a bit more obvious where it was; it was only really the exact location of the wrecks that was truly debated.
Some of it is that historically, they thought you would never be able to find the ships again due to the limitations of technology, and as time went on the oral history was just brushed to the side and some of it is how expensive and hard it is to do archaeology in such extreme conditions even in modern times. Climate change has also effected the ice in the area so it became a bit more urgent to find and study the wrecks as they start to degrade faster when the sea temperatures get warmer.
Dragon wanted: Marigold/Vermilion/Abyss Female unbred
[quote name="@Aequorin" date="2024-04-17 16:17:00" ]
[quote name="PunkNoctis" date="2024-04-17 16:08:52" ]
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
[/quote]
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
[/quote]
Would it better perhaps to describe them as “storytellers” rather than “historians?” Historians are typically assumed to be accurate, storytellers not necessarily. That might help avoid any unintentional dismissal of oral history
PunkNoctis wrote on 2024-04-17 16:08:52:
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
Would it better perhaps to describe them as “storytellers” rather than “historians?” Historians are typically assumed to be accurate, storytellers not necessarily. That might help avoid any unintentional dismissal of oral history
@Aequorin
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2024-04-17 16:17:00" ]
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
[/quote]
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
@
Aequorin
Aequorin wrote on 2024-04-17 16:17:00:
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
[quote name="PunkNoctis" date="2024-04-17 16:35:47" ]
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2024-04-17 16:17:00" ]
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
[/quote]
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
[/quote]
I wonder if it might work better to use a term like bard? Bard leans a little bit too far towards stories, but I can't really think of any words in the language that would work like "mythohistorian" off the top of my head, I'm afraid.
PunkNoctis wrote on 2024-04-17 16:35:47:
Aequorin wrote on 2024-04-17 16:17:00:
@/PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
I wonder if it might work better to use a term like bard? Bard leans a little bit too far towards stories, but I can't really think of any words in the language that would work like "mythohistorian" off the top of my head, I'm afraid.
this is something of a sidenote, but the "differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" phrasing strikes me as a little strange because, as i understand it (and i'm not much engaged with The Lore, so maybe i don't understand it at all), this is a world where scribing is still very much an active profession. there's an entire field of study dedicated to tracking the "evolution" of written text through history, essentially trying to connect all the surviving versions of a text in a family tree tracing back to the original copy.
often, these inconsistencies came from scribes being illiterate and just copying the shapes they see, so it might not be the exact same thing here. but the point being, unless there's wide-spread commonly-available printing press technology i don't know about, the accuracy of oral history vs. written history should really be thought of while keeping in mind that writers make mistakes, like, all the time
this is something of a sidenote, but the "differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" phrasing strikes me as a little strange because, as i understand it (and i'm not much engaged with The Lore, so maybe i don't understand it at all), this is a world where scribing is still very much an active profession. there's an entire field of study dedicated to tracking the "evolution" of written text through history, essentially trying to connect all the surviving versions of a text in a family tree tracing back to the original copy.
often, these inconsistencies came from scribes being illiterate and just copying the shapes they see, so it might not be the exact same thing here. but the point being, unless there's wide-spread commonly-available printing press technology i don't know about, the accuracy of oral history vs. written history should really be thought of while keeping in mind that writers make mistakes, like, all the time
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2024-04-17 16:17:00" ]
[quote name="PunkNoctis" date="2024-04-17 16:08:52" ]
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
[/quote]
@\PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
[/quote]
Isn't it just further proof there needs to be more editing if the userbase is having a "terrible misunderstanding"?
Aequorin wrote on 2024-04-17 16:17:00:
PunkNoctis wrote on 2024-04-17 16:08:52:
doesn't actually fix the fact that a "skilled Dusthide historian" is described as inaccurately preserving historical events.
@\PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
Isn't it just further proof there needs to be more editing if the userbase is having a "terrible misunderstanding"?
Yeah. I read the revised version first, and my first reaction was "this is the fixed version? How bad was the original!?"
[quote]While their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies, it also fosters much celebration and respect for the art of storytelling.[/quote]
There's also this weird implication in this line that truth and accuracy = boring and being entertaining is more important than relaying correct information, especially when followed up with the comment about the historian keeping kids attention.
Based on the commentary in this thread and seeing the original, I [i]guess[/i] the intent is to say that the breed in more interested in having fun than fussing over the details of dusty old history, and then intent with the oral story telling was to convey the idea of impermanence, versus committing words to paper or stone... which therein lies the problem. There's still the implication that words are less reliable than written records.
If I could be so bold as to provide an example of what I think the goal is...?
[i]The rollicking natures of Dusthides means no dusty written record could ever hope to hold their attention, as many value a good story over a boring truth any day. Instead, dusthides pass down their history and traditions entirely by the skill of their historians' storytelling. The most celebrated of their storykeepers can keep even the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted to lessons through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.[/i]
edit: if the goal instead was the idea the Dusthides love stories over truth, then "historian" is the word that needs to go.
Yeah. I read the revised version first, and my first reaction was "this is the fixed version? How bad was the original!?"
Quote:
While their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies, it also fosters much celebration and respect for the art of storytelling.
There's also this weird implication in this line that truth and accuracy = boring and being entertaining is more important than relaying correct information, especially when followed up with the comment about the historian keeping kids attention.
Based on the commentary in this thread and seeing the original, I
guess the intent is to say that the breed in more interested in having fun than fussing over the details of dusty old history, and then intent with the oral story telling was to convey the idea of impermanence, versus committing words to paper or stone... which therein lies the problem. There's still the implication that words are less reliable than written records.
If I could be so bold as to provide an example of what I think the goal is...?
The rollicking natures of Dusthides means no dusty written record could ever hope to hold their attention, as many value a good story over a boring truth any day. Instead, dusthides pass down their history and traditions entirely by the skill of their historians' storytelling. The most celebrated of their storykeepers can keep even the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted to lessons through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
edit: if the goal instead was the idea the Dusthides love stories over truth, then "historian" is the word that needs to go.
[quote name="PunkNoctis" date="2024-04-17 16:35:47" ]
[quote name="Aequorin" date="2024-04-17 16:17:00" ]
@PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
[quote]A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.[/quote]
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
[/quote]
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
[/quote]
@PunkNoctis, first we need to address an assumption that's been made: Indigenous traditions were not the inspiration or reference for the Dusthide traditions. In other words, we did not reference or take inspiration from indigenous cultures for Dusthide traditions.
As for the line reference, the full sentence is as follows:
[quote]While their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies, it also fosters much celebration and respect for the art of storytelling.[/quote]
This line is a reference to the Dusthides' excitable nature in general, not the historians specifically. When the [b]full sentence is read with all its context[/b], it's their excitable nature leading to the mistakes in recounting within the populace and this nature of the Dusthide leads to both the celebration of and respect for the art of storytelling.
The next line then references Dusthide historians (not the general populace) keeping that rollicking, excitable general populace focused when engaging in oral narration.
If this separation (general Dusthide populace/nature vs individual Dusthide historians) is not clear, we can certainly look into clarifying that further in the article.
PunkNoctis wrote on 2024-04-17 16:35:47:
Aequorin wrote on 2024-04-17 16:17:00:
@
PunkNoctis, I think there's been a terrible misunderstanding.
Quote:
A skilled Dusthide historian can keep the most fidgety hatchlings (and adults!) riveted through tales of joy, heartbreak, adventure, or tragedy alike.
The line about the historian is referencing their skills at teaching and keeping a dragon with excitable tendencies focused.
I appreciate your reply! I do understand though that this particular line is about storytelling skills (i.e., describing events in an entertaining and captivating way). The issue is that according to the previous line — "their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies" — the histories that a Dusthide historian would recount are apparently inaccurate
@
PunkNoctis, first we need to address an assumption that's been made: Indigenous traditions were not the inspiration or reference for the Dusthide traditions. In other words, we did not reference or take inspiration from indigenous cultures for Dusthide traditions.
As for the line reference, the full sentence is as follows:
Quote:
While their rollicking natures can cause differing accounts and frequent inconsistencies, it also fosters much celebration and respect for the art of storytelling.
This line is a reference to the Dusthides' excitable nature in general, not the historians specifically. When the
full sentence is read with all its context, it's their excitable nature leading to the mistakes in recounting within the populace and this nature of the Dusthide leads to both the celebration of and respect for the art of storytelling.
The next line then references Dusthide historians (not the general populace) keeping that rollicking, excitable general populace focused when engaging in oral narration.
If this separation (general Dusthide populace/nature vs individual Dusthide historians) is not clear, we can certainly look into clarifying that further in the article.
