General Discussion

Every game franchise has some bad games in it, whether it's poorly made or just unpopular. However, that isn't to say that they're COMPLETELY bad, in fact, sometimes the best things can come from the worst games. Off the top of your head, what are some examples of things the bad games did right?

Personally, while the more recent Pokémon games haven't exactly been the greatest, they do have banger soundtracks. Just listen to the Gym Leader themes from generations 8 and 9.

I really enjoyed Kirby: Star Allies' multiplayer mechanic of using different allies to solve puzzles. The returning characters were cool too, great homages to past games. However, I've also heard that people thought it was too easy and didn't like it. (I don't care though. It was my first Switch game and holds a special place in my heart)

HoMM GBC was a horribly buggy, anemic, and unfinished game but by gods some of the music slapped (timestamped to some CRISP nostalgiamelody)

I have also been rather disappointed by the last 2 gens of mainline Pokémon games and wish they would stop rushing them, but I genuinely feel like the art department, especially the concept art for these games is very beautiful. I think they're still doing a great job at designing new characters and creatures for these games and it honestly makes me a bit sad they rush these games and don't take the time to flawlessly reproduce the beautiful images and imaginations the concept art team clearly has.

apologies in advance for long post!! I got carried away.

the Kingdom Hearts series has about as many black sheep as it has white sheep, and which ones are the black sheep depends entirely on who you ask. I personally am mostly a fan of the series because of the story, so I'll list one good thing each game did with its story. always assume I'm talking about the most recent playable release of the game, and beware of spoilers. also I'll report each game's black sheep status in (brackets) after my positive comment, just for the fun of it.

Kingdom Hearts 1: the villains absolutely freaking slap in this game! every single one has purpose, every single one is unique and every single one has great interactions with the heroes and supporting cast. KH as a whole has great villains in both the Disney villains and its original characters, but KH1 does the Disney villains the most justice. (KH1 is my personal black sheep for its pacing issues, the series as a whole has pacing issues and I think KH1 is to blame for setting a precedent)

Chain of Memories: change is the driving force in this game, and I absolutely love how it affects all the characters. it isn't just the heroes, all original characters go through a change or have to deal with another character's changes, and how they deal with this defines them and sets them on their path forward. (COM is more of a black sheep for its gameplay, since it's... it's a love it or hate it battle system, let's keep it at that)

Kingdom Hearts 2: there's a lot of setup and a lot of payoff in this game - setup for the next games, and payoff for things that were set up in COM. even though the sheer number of characters and plotlines present in this game is intimidating even for Final Fantasy standards, it's all surprisingly well balanced! (KH2 is divisive for its gameplay, and I have a lot of problems with its pacing, but I admire it for how well it juggles all of its plot points, even if it does get a little backloaded)

358/2 Days: the characterization is on freaking point! there are, again, a lot of characters to work with, but every single character is on. freaking. point. every member of the Organization is a unique character, every character interaction feels realistic and makes sense with the characters' personalities, and you really get the time to grow attached to them over the course of this game. this game has a cutscene movie but, for the love of all that is good, play the game, you will miss out on so many great character moments if you don't. (Days is a bit of a middle child because of its gimmicky panel system. also, the cutscene movie really doesn't do it justice and I think it not having a playable version outside of the DS original is extremely detrimental to the game)

Re:Coded: technically, this is the only game that can be skipped without missing major plot details, as watching the cutscene movie and the secret ending provides enough information about the important story beats. but would you really skip over the game with some of the most adorable character moments? (a black sheep for its mostly skippable story, gimmicky and downright weird gameplay, and relative inaccessibility since it is again a game that's only playable on DS. it originally released as a mobile game in Japan, then was redone as a DS game, then also got a cutscene movie. weird existence for a weird game)

Birth By Sleep: I love me some good tragedies, and BBS sets a great precedent for the series. I really enjoy how the tragedy in this game follows from the characters' decisions, which all make perfect sense for the characters. really, there was no way this wasn't going to end in a tragedy. seeing the friendship between the main trio slowly crumble and yet still hold stronger than any adversity is beautiful, and the progression is wonderfully done. also, there are very few pacing issues! (BBS is in this weird position where the characters are sassed on a lot for being sorta flanderized, but the game itself isn't really a black sheep. its minigames, on the other hand...)

Dream Drop Distance: a setup game and a very confusing one at that, but that's exactly what I like about it. all the information it presents is not actually that confusing, it's just being presented in a really confusing way. you are not supposed to fully understand what is going on at this point in the series, and that is perfectly fine. the villains carry the plot, which is a good thing in this case, and their probably not entirely intentional sibling-type dynamics make me happy. (DDD is definitely a black sheep - or rather a Tama Sheep, haha Dream Eater joke - for being so incredibly confusing and for having very weird gameplay. it's rough for sure, but it sets up a lot of good things for the future)

Back Cover: not a game, just a supplementary movie, but I'm including it anyway. Back Cover is another great tragedy and improves on a lot of things from BBS. there are more characters to work with, but they are also better at making bad decisions and misunderstanding each other, which makes for a beautifully tragic tale. and it all could've been prevented if they'd listened to each other and let Invi do her job. (Back Cover is supplementary content to X/Union Cross, which I'll get to in a bit. it feels out of place as it is here, but once Union Cross gets added to the mix, everything starts to make a whole lot more sense. just wait for it)

0.2 A Fragmentary Passage: did I mention I love tragedies? this game is the darkest and most serious console game in the entire series, providing a great insight into Aqua's depressive state and how much the darkness has affected her. the best part of this game is actually in the middle, where her dark thoughts haunt her until she finally truly confronts them. it's a very powerful story and the delivery on its themes is top notch. (short game, more of a tech demo than a full game, but hot donuts does it hit hard. I don't think it has much of a reputation one way or the other)

X/Union Cross: yet another good tragedy, and this time the player character isn't even one of the characters at fault! there's a lot going on and in all honesty I don't fully understand it yet, but that only has me more intrigued. Union Cross should be taken together with Back Cover for the full story, knowing one adds a lot to the other, and I think once I get the chance to deep dive into this part of the lore I'll really appreciate it a lot. (a mobile game... originally released as X, then eventually becoming Union Cross, this game is a very black sheep for its gacha mechanics and extreme power creep. if it hadn't had the power creep, I think it would be a much better game)

Kingdom Hearts 3: the grand finale to the first saga, and hooo boi this game is something. there are a lot of epic moments at the end of the game to conclude plot threads, and there are a lot of good villain moments following up on the setup from DDD. this game has a lot of layers and every character has something going on, which really makes it no surprise that the game overextends itself or flubs its pacing. personally I'm very fond of the dynamics within the Organization, as they have mostly changed from past dynamics and give each character a new side to their personality, sometimes to very intriguing extents. (a very divisive game at best; gameplay is either loved or hated and the story gets a lot of flack for its pacing issues and odd narrative choices in the Disney worlds and in some character arcs. the plot backloading is strong with this one. I like it for what it is and I think most of its faults can be blamed on improper setup due to its pacing issues. taking a little more time would really fix a lot of problems, imo)

Melody of Memory: we're not done yet! a recap game with little new story, but what is there is very intriguing. I must admit I have a big soft spot for this game, as it basically doubles my favorite character's screentime... but even if he wasn't my fave, I would still really appreciate getting to see a little more stuff that I'd been wondering about anyway. and, of course, there's setup for the future. (generally overlooked and a bit of a black sheep for being basically just a recap with very little new content, but mostly safe for an in between game. it's just kinda there)

Dark Road: last one for now. did Xehanort need a tragic backstory? not really. does this game provide a lot of insight into his character, as well as a very interesting addition to a cycle that has been occurring throughout the series? abso-freaking-lutely. a lot of interesting insights in this game when it comes to the relationship between light and darkness, and I'm very curious to see where things go from here. (it's a mobile game... it mostly escaped power creep by virtue of becoming an offline game pretty quickly, but is fairly grind-heavy with an autoplay feature, so it still gets a lot of flack. story is very solid)

bonus prediction for Missing Link: I think we're going to see a lot more of the themes touched on in the prior mobile games, as well as more setup for the future saga, but I'm mostly excited for the world building. we're finally getting some insight into the time between Union Cross and Dark Road, and that is something we sorely need, imo. I think it is going to suffer from typical mobile game problems, though I doubt it will be as grind-heavy or power-creeping as the previous mobile games, since it's a very different style of game. in general, I'm optimistic.

the valley of avalar in the legend of spyro: dawn of the dragon is pretty great. you will notice how short the video is though, and that this isn't what the rest of the gameplay for other areas is like.

not sure how people feel overall about a hero's tail but i always liked how large the levels were and how much is jam packed into every area, i'd still count it as a classic spyro game since its still a 3d platformer. the areas are larger because there's less levels in the game compared to the classic trilogy, though i think there's still more levels than enter the dragonfly has...

still tlos but not dotd, but how could i forget this broken soul

Oh boy here come my game opinions.

Fossil Fighters is technically a mid-tier mon game in any of its entries (I will defend Frontiers with my life), but it really thrives with the mechanic of cleaning up fossils in order to create the Vivosaurs. I loved slowly obtaining the skill to excavate them without any damage. Also, each entry has a fun and creative mix of sci-fi and fantasy elements.

-While ZooTycoon has had many successors that over shine it in one particular mechanic or aspect, I don't think any of them can live up to the original in terms of keeping all the mechanics fun and good. Other simulators are too complex, or too simple, while ZooTycoon has the perfect balance.

-Ecco the Dolphin is frustratingly difficult but by jove does it make that difficulty fun when it isn't frustrating. Not to mention it's extremely bizarre xenoficton sci-fi plot. I think it set me down onto the path of enjoying frustrating games and- when well-executed- introducing sci-fi elements into a seemingly mundane story.

-Deadly Creatures isn't a bad game, but it sure is an obscure one I've never heard other people talk about, but I will say it is a delightful little action game where you play as a tarantula and scorpio while a dramatic subplot involving humans and cursed treasures occurs in the background. It did environment storytelling really well, and no game has ever fulfilled the gap in my heart for it.

-The Dragonology game was pretty basic but it's dragons and that's a good enough thing for me. This also reigns true for the Battle of Giants games with their dinosaurs, dragons, and mutant insects.

-Spore's a disaster but it's a great disaster and I'm sad there's never been any "successors" to it, either in mainstream developers or indie developers. A shame, if you ask me.

-Broken Sword had a lot of confusing puzzles, but I loved the historical aspects and it is rather funny to see this well-forgotten game series to be the predecessor of many more famous games, films, and media otherwise unstated.

None of the Assassin's Creed games are good, but I will say some of them are very skilled at making you attached to the characters. Unfortunately they also have a habit of screwing over said characters and causing apathy and disappointment in the player (me), which is why I'm giving them an entry here.


I have many, many more, but these are just the ones that popped up in my head.

[quote name="bulrush" date="2023-12-22 16:30:45" ] the valley of avalar in the legend of spyro: dawn of the dragon is pretty great. you will notice how short the video is though, and that this isn't what the rest of the gameplay for other areas is like. not sure how people feel overall about a hero's tail but i always liked how large the levels were and how much is jam packed into every area, i'd still count it as a classic spyro game since its still a 3d platformer. the areas are larger because there's less levels in the game compared to the classic trilogy, though i think there's still more levels than enter the dragonfly has... [/quote] I WAS GONNA SAY SPYRO omg you took the words out of my mouth… The Legend of Spyro trilogy definitely had some issues (constant combat and the scaling of difficultly for it for one… spent 4 hours on the freaking scorpion fights…) but the world was absolutely gorgeous, especially for a wii game. The dark storyline they had as well was absolutely incredible as well. Here’s to hoping they make a remake of that trilogy like they did with the first three Spyro games!