Suggestions

this is an awful idea, i support it

the main problem that i can see with this idea is that it creates an exception. it sets the precedent that the no clothing rule can be pushed a little bit. and then people create threads demanding that their favourite clothing items be made available. for example: “oh please add flowerfalls to ancients! it wouldn’t be too difficult!” “oh please add silks! silks are probably way easier to draw than [kickstarter item]! please please please!” “could we get dogs?” and eventually, we are back at square one. staff is swamped with extra artwork to make (this is a part of why modern releases take much much much much longer than ancient releases). give the people an inch, and they will take a mile. i dont mean that specifically towards the fr userbase by no means, but usually an exception in any scenario just serves as an example that if you push enough, you too can get your way. thus, effectively making ancient releases akin to modern releases, making the ancient designation pointless.

The most likely goal in terms of apparel is dressing up your dragon. So, I can see why some people asked for apparel for Ancients in general rather than just Kickstarter. Kickstarter isn't really... underutilized? I suppose it does have old art that may be iffy to change due to the money behind these items (not a contract though). It's probably the retired nature that makes it feel underutilized. After all, they aren't items you would see everywhere. I don't really want to see items that unlock gameplay elements though. That will create a greater divide unless you're referring to this suggestion only, but even then, it shouldn't do that.

If there will be limited amount of apparel for ancients hypothetically, it would involve accessible apparel for anyone to buy. Only Kickstarters would exclude so many of the playerbase from this supposed limited apparel system. This would not be a great marketing move to make, and there will be confusion or outcry as to why only Kickstarter. This is also ignoring my stance on retired items or Kickstarter and the economy. So basically, even if we were to add apparel (which we shouldn't for Ancients' purpose), it should involve more than Kickstarter.

I don't really support this so far. But I would like to see foreground apparel (like Flowerfall) to customize Ancients more.

[quote name="warocqueanum" date="2023-12-01 21:11:04" ] Adding on, Kickstarter items are here and I personally feel like they are under utilized. [/quote] ... In what way are these items being "under-utilized"? They are all being used as what they are, the same as all other apparel items. Extremely well-utilized. Making it so that Ancients can wear them isn't going to make us see them any more often - if anything, I think it would increase the black-market transactions in order to get these items to change hands. Apparel items can be put on all the dragons that can wear apparel. Like. Are Kickstarter familiars [i]specifically[/i] being under-utilized (in a way not all other familiars, like, say, the [gamedb item=16261], are being under-utilized) because all you can do is bond with them? Why the apparel? How can we make it so the Kickstarter familiars are better used as something other than familiars? EDIT: Just in case it's not clear, this is, in fact, a terrible idea. I think there could only be negative outcomes besides like, what? Twelve people getting to use six items on Acient breeds? (I'm exaggerating a little, but there is literally no real upside I can think of to doing this that in any way out-weighs the insane downsides of changing Ancients into something they are [i]explicitly designed not to be[/i].) Like the user below me pointed out: what is the point of spending any number of hours on this - which will only increase every time a new Ancient is released for something that [i]at best[/i] would just upset the thousands of people who can never get a KS item? You don't need the reward for the item you bought to be "sweeter." You got exactly what you paid for, and they are extremely limited in quantity and worth insane amounts of FR currency - so, really, you got way more than you paid for. Congratulations. That means you are literally asking the staff to put in who-knows-how-many hours drawing items specifically [i]for you[/i] (the handful of people who own these items as opposed to the thousands of people who never will) to use on dragons that were never intended to wear anything so the staff could release more dragons [i]for everyone[/i]. You say this has nothing to do with elitism, but asking the staff to go back ten years to make the $30 you spent that much more special sure sounds like something. Something else.

@warocqueanum what's the profit for devs do so?
Create from zerro huge number or arts where 99% of those nether being used by players at all?! (I'm sure they lost origin pictures as well as they did with first years arts and thus it is work from scratch)

Those who ready buy KS items do it already without "exceptional ancients"
Devs get nothing but waisted time. Players get nothing but more upset.

[quote name="warocqueanum" date="2023-12-01 20:59:31" ] -snip- Why not take it a step further and allow them on restricted dragons? [b]Those dragons can't be dressed anyway, so it would not affect any player that does not want a Kickstarter item.[/b] For players that are aware and want a Kickstarter item, they already know the challenge that awaits them. What would be the worst possible outcome of making the Kickstarter reward a little sweeter? [/quote] I just have to disagree here and say it fundamentally would effect any players that don't want Kickstarter items. I don't want them because they are forever out of my range... but if I learned that was the [i]only possible[/i] option available to dress my Ancient dragons, then I would want them. Then I'm faced with the price and the dwindling number of these items left in the game that aren't in a permanent lair never to be sold now, or a dead lair. Sellers are few and far between. At least with how it is currently, I [i]still have other apparel[/i] I can use to dress my dragons that isn't from the Kickstarter. This would be impossible with Ancients, and honestly feel more unfair than fun. It is not a reward for players who have been able to earn Kickstarter apparel, it's a punishment to anyone who wants further customization for Ancients and the majority of users who will never have those items. I'm very confused by this suggestion, as you keep discussing competitiveness in other games and dynamics surrounding retired items. There does not need to be a continued reward like this, especially one that's essentially "you needed to be here 10 years ago or grind forever if you want to use a dress-up feature on your dragon." Further gameplay should not be able to be unlocked by being in the right place at the right time! This is an entire feature that most players would never be able to use. Needless to say no support. I'd like floaty apparel items like the flower falls for Ancients, but I understand why this won't be the case. This takes that concept and makes it something that'd only frustrate and hurt many users. Joxar also isn't a fair comparison to make here, because the "try again later" being described here is buying a loot box and hoping for the best. There's no choice when I buy one with the aim of getting festival apparel I missed, only luck. Players still buy many copies of festival items. There's just more players now than there was a few years ago, so more items entering the game, and their value is lowered. Even if retiring was kept the same.

I don't really have a horse in this race, I don't think there's a single piece of Kickstarter apparel I would consider getting if they were widely available, so I don't really care either way who gets them or how, but this got my attention: [quote name="warocqueanum" date="2023-12-01 19:04:52" ] Some PG-13 comparisons would be like Fortnight. Some players have desirable skins and emotions that others may not. They simply buy game cards or play more of the game to achieve that item. Other PG-13 examples would be Minecraft, Roblox, Animal Crossing, and a few others with the same gather items and compete skill levels. I hope it's alright to mention these games, I'm trying to contextualize my point of view. No one perceives this negatively, it's just part of playing video games- they're competitive in nature. It's the same as playing Flightrising and buying gems. It's a game. The difference in petsim web games is that competing is expressly optional and does not affect gameplay. [/quote] It is a 'part of playing video games' that is perceived extremely negatively. Like several countries are working on banning some of the examples you used, because gambling mechanics and other game designs meant to farm money from young users is unnaceptable. I don't think we should aim to replicate such aspects of the medium, especially on a site used mostly by minors.

Honestly it would be incredibly funny if staff did that just because of how much of an insult it would be to 99% of the userbase. Wouldn't be fun to live through in actuality, but for at least one glorious hour, staff would kick sand directly in their players faces and the forums would explode in a Glorious blaze of hate. It would be the petsite drama of the century.
.... Which is to say, not a good idea.

We were rightfully mad over not being able to put Primal eyes on dragons that already existed prior to the update adding them. "Not every feature needs to be accessible" is not going to roll here, and it rightfully shouldn't because literally where is the fun in a game where there's a mechanic walled off by good luck, the right timing, or disposable income (on a PG-13 game mind you). Things that most of the userbase will not have.
The KS items are stupidly expensive. You genuinely have to be wealthy IRL to get these items. There are so few that even if it was more reasonable to get one, there would not be enough for more than like 50 select players on a game with thousands.
Ancient apparel is something a lot of people really want but staff has been adamant will not happen for some very good reasons. If they went back on this promise that so much of the userbase wants them to break for items that basically no one could have, it would just be straight up insulting. Genuinely. It would be waving something highly desired and requested in the faces of thousands of players who will never be able to use it.

Just not having things sometimes works in games like Overwatch with its seasonal skins where truly it doesn't affect anything and is merely a bonus feature you can entirely ignore with zero impact to gameplay.
This however is a dragon dress up game. It is a game focused entirely on customization. Locking a very lucrative customization feature behind impossible to get items 10 years after the Kickstarter closed would just be bad game design period. For all but those possibly 50 players, it goes against the core idea of the game. Them exisiting period doesn't, because you can put any other apparel you want on your modern dragons. You even have fake versions of them. Ancients is a different beast because they wouldn't have another option. That's It.

I hope that doesn't sound all that harsh and mean, but I do hope it's clear.