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[quote name="@hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 03:55:11" ] that's why demanding the removal of pursuits like this that people just... don't like is a form of entitlement, to me anyway. because how is that fair to the people that DO like those pursuits? (i like randomly breeding my dragons)[/quote] This is why I would much prefer to see the two potentially-impossible daily pursuits changed rather than removed, so that no currently-happy players are disadvantaged. Is '[i]Incubate[/i] a nest' already a pursuit? (My memory is terrible and there's no list I've been able to find like there is for achievements.) If not, anyone currently benefitting from the 'Breed' pursuit would still benefit if it were changed to 'Incubate'. Otherwise, 'visit the nesting grounds' could be added. For Baldwin, making the current pursuits 'visit Baldwin's page' and/or 'Stir an existing brew' would also retain the benefit to those who never brew tokens and who thus deserve to be rewarded for remembering that part of the site daily. If it's done this way, where's the downside? [quote]it's just people refusing to accept that this is an opt-in feature that isn't going to ruin their life if they don't 100% it every single day. that's the bottom line i hope the devs don't give into this tbh [/quote] I'm losing no sleep here. Just offering perspective about what motivates me (and many other people, completionism is by no means a rare phenomenon). If you give me five (or thirty, really, since it's tracked all month) possible-if-inconvenient tasks, I'm going to go the extra mile just to be able to say 'yay, I got them all!' If one of the five is completely impossible, I'm much less interested in checking off the other four. And I don't think discouragement and disengagement is what the devs were going for in the design of this feature. And again, it seems like these particular tasks are major outliers. There are zero achievements that the site itself locks you out of potentially claiming someday. There are zero weekly or monthly pursuits that you can be locked out of because of something you did the previous week or month. There are only three (one breeding and two Baldwin) daily pursuits you can be locked out of because of something you did on the previous day. That very small comparitive number makes this seem like an oversight. (Yes, individual players can be locked out of any given thing due to their individual circumstances/disabilities/technology/principles/etc. There is no avoiding that. The mechanics of the site itself locking you out is an entirely different kettle of fish.)

@Lara8 you might be losing no sleep but there are some people genuinely acting like this is a detriment to their mental health because they cant 100% the daily/weekly/monthly pursuits so these are the kind of people i'm addressing tbh

but as i said incubating a nest and breeding dragons are two different actions - u cannot incubate a nest if you have no nests to incubate, therefore you must breed dragons to be able to incubate them. that's more than likely why they are two different pursuits (it's almost as if the breed a dragon pursuit can aid you in doing the incubate a nest pursuit

a general question i have is like - i dont understand why people cant accept that sometimes they wont be able to do a pursuit? like whats the harm in just... not doing the pursuit, rather than expecting it to be changed

I think the most likely answer is a disrupted gameplay loop. The main thing about Flight Rising is dragons. And breeding is one main mechanic to get more dragons. So, players constantly breed dragons to get random hatchlings or get closer to or obtain their goal. So, having a pursuit disrupt that gameplay was probably irritating. It creates this odd response by having two gameplay mechanics conflict each other and one of them is well, a main aspect of the site. I do think a lot of pursuits are really good and I think Baldwin is actually pretty fine, it’s just the token that causes the problem by lasting more than a day. There may be a few recipes that can mess up your pursuits depending on your schedule though. But, breeding a pair does disrupt breeding gameplay and so it slows down the loop or rarely stops it completely. Incubating does a breeding feature job, but it is much more friendly as it takes in a daily activity.

Do everyone need to interact with pursuits or Achievements? No, not really. I’m certainly not. But reading this thread was really interesting because it shows me what conflicting gameplay mechanic goals can do to someone’s gameplay. It can either break or make it. So, I just don’t really agree with breeding as a daily. It doesn’t suit well as a daily activity so I think it should be removed from dailies or have the system detect full nests to not give you the pursuit. I think merging doesn’t do much considering you can incubate right after. Based on this thread, it does seem to break that reward response quite often.

[quote name="hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 14:01:22" ] a general question i have is like - i dont understand why people cant accept that sometimes they wont be able to do a pursuit? like whats the harm in just... not doing the pursuit, rather than expecting it to be changed [/quote] For me, it's the difference between the "I can't do fairgrounds" claim that is a [i]personal[/i] choice or limitation versus the mechanical limitation of the [i]game[/i] creating the situation where you cannot complete the objective. People who choose not to complete a task know that they are choosing not to; they aren't likely to care, so why arrange the system to pursue people who are choosing not to care? On the other side you have people who cannot complete a task because their strategy in completing earlier tasks was suboptimal to obtain all the rewards - so because they care about getting the reward (like they're supposed to, as this is the dev's best strategy and the reason the pursuits exist at all) they will adjust their strategy. In this case, that means to make a move counter to the development goal. The goal is to use game mechanics and return to play more and reap the rewards - but the move you have to make in order to achieve the reward is actually [i]not to play[/i]. But because this move can only have been known in hindsight, it only yields frustration because you don't know what your pursuits will be for the following days. The rewards are intended to be desired and people are supposed to want them. This is the desired attitude toward the reward. [i]Your attitude is not the desired attitude[/i]. Anyone can choose not to want the rewards, but wanting them is best for the game. Creating daily tasks that cannot be done because the game does not allow for it is a bad design in the long run because it discourages the players who have chosen your desired outcome: to care about playing the game. Worst case scenario, they become frustrated enough to stop because there is no viable strategy except to depend on RNG to not screw you out of rewards. Its ultimately a bad thing to have because it creates the impression to players that there are desirable rewards in this game that the game itself will stop you from achieving by encouraging you to make the wrong move. There are tons of games out there, and it is in the game's best interest to eliminate built-in propositions that cannot be won. [quote name="Lara8" date="2023-06-30 13:44:41" ] Is 'Incubate a nest' already a pursuit? (My memory is terrible and there's no list I've been able to find like there is for achievements.)[/quote] Also, apparently so. It was one of mine today. But I would also love a list of pursuits.

[quote name="@hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 14:01:22" ] @Lara8 you might be losing no sleep but there are some people genuinely acting like this is a detriment to their mental health because they cant 100% the daily/weekly/monthly pursuits so these are the kind of people i'm addressing tbh[/quote] I'm not seeing that level of distress personally. Yes, we're [i]all[/i] spending a lot of time debating this, but I find analyzing the mechanics of gameplay and how they can drive player engagement to be an interesting subject, so I wouldn't call that a distress marker. [quote]but as i said incubating a nest and breeding dragons are two different actions - u cannot incubate a nest if you have no nests to incubate, therefore you must breed dragons to be able to incubate them. that's more than likely why they are two different pursuits (it's almost as if the breed a dragon pursuit can aid you in doing the incubate a nest pursuit[/quote] My question is, [i]does[/i] incubate a nest currently exist as a pursuit? I'm genuinely asking because I don't remember. But I know for sure 'visit the nesting grounds' does not, and if [i]that[/i] were added in place of 'Breed a pair', you'd still be able to get double-benefit the way you're describing. edit: I see from the post above me that it does, so yes, 'Visit the nesting grounds' seems like the optimal switch. [quote]a general question i have is like - i dont understand why people cant accept that sometimes they wont be able to do a pursuit? like whats the harm in just... not doing the pursuit, rather than expecting it to be changed [/quote] There is no harm. There is less satisfaction. If you don't personally experience satisfaction from 'completing all of the things', I don't know how to explain it to you, but it's unquestionably a phenomenon that a lot of people experience. 'Gotta catch 'em all', etc. And Flight Rising could take advantage of this phenomenon by motivating those people to complete more of their daily pursuits. Currently the existence of the three unachievable pursuits is sabotaging that benefit.

@Lara8 yes incubate a nest does exist as a pursuit, as others have said. i personally have not seen it (iirc) but i have seen the breeding ones

i could compromise with visit nesting grounds but that also just implies going there - not necessarily interacting with anything which defeats the purpose of pursuits (which are meant to get you to engage with features of the site)

but i do also have a desire to 100% stuff if you actually get something out of it at the end - like a video game for instance. but flight rising is fundamentally by nature impossible to 100% because the pursuits are constantly being swapped out, so i suppose thats why i dont understand it

[quote name="hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 15:25:48" ] i could compromise with visit nesting grounds but that also just implies going there - not necessarily interacting with anything which defeats the purpose of pursuits (which are meant to get you to engage with features of the site) [/quote] There are already daily pursuits that do nothing but tell you to visit a specific page. Visiting the World Map and Dominance pages are the ones I know of, off the top of my head. This seems like an incredibly semantic issue to be hung up on when the only difference between that and "engaging with the features of the site" is 1 extra button click. [quote name="hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 15:25:48" ]but flight rising is fundamentally by nature impossible to 100% because the pursuits are constantly being swapped out [/quote] I am genuinely confused as to what you mean by this. The only pursuits that are "By nature impossible to 100%" are the ones that the game can soft-lock you from, which are the only ones being discussed in this thread. ie; Breed a pair of dragons and Baldwin dailies. Everything else is 100% entirely possible to do every single day, week, and month. I should know on account of completing every pursuit so far [i]except[/i] the ones I've gotten soft-locked from. I'm not sure what part of the game you think "fundamentally by nature" is not possible to complete in that way.

@hungryhobbits

There are currently other 'visit' pursuits, so it's not without precedent. You can certainly make a 'but then it would be too easy' argument, but that's different from a 'it's taking something away from players who currently are receiving benefit' argument.

Anyway, yes, I think we're describing two different types of satisfaction here - 'completing all of the things for the sake of getting a reward' versus 'completing all of the things for the sake of completing all of the things'.

As an example, if the devs stepped in and said "Okay, we'll offer six (or seven or eight) daily pursuits instead, so you'll always be able to complete at least five", that would still be unsatisfying to me personally. Because checking off five out of five boxes is more fun than checking off five out of eight boxes, even if the amount of achievement currency you'd gain would be the same in both scenarios.

Of course not everyone would feel that way. But based on general observations, much less reading this thread, I'm confident in saying a good number of players do.

[quote name="@/hungryhobbits" date="2023-06-30 14:01:22" ] @/Lara8 you might be losing no sleep but there are some people genuinely acting like this is a detriment to their mental health because they cant 100% the daily/weekly/monthly pursuits so these are the kind of people i'm addressing tbh[/quote] Nobody is acting like this, stop the hyperbole. I have OCD and I never said any of this would rUiN mY lIfE. I would also rather the pursuits be changed rather than removed, like "incubate nest" is fine vs. "breed"... so there is no "entitlement" happening here. (I love /s how people on this comm throw around the word "entitlement" over stuff like accessibility issues.)

@Lara8 i guess no matter how they decide to handle this complaint - no one will be happy. if they keep it or if they remove it - someone's gonna be mad about it UoU"