why are we allowed a board to discuss skins anymore
why are we allowed forums anymore
the admins literally cannot trust us with anything
we are all two years old and i think they have forgotten to change half of us
why are we allowed a board to discuss skins anymore
why are we allowed forums anymore
the admins literally cannot trust us with anything
we are all two years old and i think they have forgotten to change half of us
coatls are dead to me
If the users who are of Native American heritage are saying "The skin is fine; I don't see any problems with it", I'm... pretty sure it's time for everyone else to back down.
@
Glacies @
Tsunako
I have to agree.
Can we just let the topic go? The artist who has gotten enough **** already deserves that much.
@
Glacies @
Tsunako
I have to agree.
Can we just let the topic go? The artist who has gotten enough **** already deserves that much.
[quote name="etc" date="2013-11-21 06:09:32"]if you claim to be bullied bc someone voiced concern and others are calling you out on potential harmful things: you have some thinkin' to do
whether its appropriating or not: i don't know. maybe not if you were just drawin' a picture, but using something that belongs to a culture to win a contest seems pretty gross to me and i wouldn't do it
that's how i think of it, anyway.[/quote]
To be fair, the relentless accusation of doing something offensive when someone was just attempting harmless fun is a form of harassment. I face it fairly often myself, when I so happen to dare draw something inspired by a culture that isn't my cisbi white background. Unless, of course, I'm drawing something from European culture, I've never been "called out" then, despite that being as foreign to me as South American or Asian culture...
I don't understand why it's any different for drawing it and submitting it in the contest. If someone spends the time to incorporate that theme and stylization, adapt it appropriately into the design of the dragon itself and to make it work, then that is all that person's effort. The culture did not do that work for the artist. It was merely inspiration, as the beauty of various stones are inspiring other skin artists.
It's still their artwork, and they still put their own effort into the design. An artist deserves to do with their artwork whatever they wish.
etc wrote on 2013-11-21 06:09:32:
if you claim to be bullied bc someone voiced concern and others are calling you out on potential harmful things: you have some thinkin' to do
whether its appropriating or not: i don't know. maybe not if you were just drawin' a picture, but using something that belongs to a culture to win a contest seems pretty gross to me and i wouldn't do it
that's how i think of it, anyway.
To be fair, the relentless accusation of doing something offensive when someone was just attempting harmless fun is a form of harassment. I face it fairly often myself, when I so happen to dare draw something inspired by a culture that isn't my cisbi white background. Unless, of course, I'm drawing something from European culture, I've never been "called out" then, despite that being as foreign to me as South American or Asian culture...
I don't understand why it's any different for drawing it and submitting it in the contest. If someone spends the time to incorporate that theme and stylization, adapt it appropriately into the design of the dragon itself and to make it work, then that is all that person's effort. The culture did not do that work for the artist. It was merely inspiration, as the beauty of various stones are inspiring other skin artists.
It's still their artwork, and they still put their own effort into the design. An artist deserves to do with their artwork whatever they wish.
To add onto what fancyfennekin is saying: it's actually more offensive in my opinion to try and imply that using anything cultural is suddenly immediately cultural appropriation- it's as if you're saying all of those other cultures are too ~exotic~ for other people to possibly understand. You're alienating the culture because of someone drawing inspiration from it.
I apologize on behalf of earth flight for everyone having to deal with someone that's apparently so much more of a cultural expert than someone who studied it that they have to harass them for it. Man that's embarrassing.
To add onto what fancyfennekin is saying: it's actually more offensive in my opinion to try and imply that using anything cultural is suddenly immediately cultural appropriation- it's as if you're saying all of those other cultures are too ~exotic~ for other people to possibly understand. You're alienating the culture because of someone drawing inspiration from it.
I apologize on behalf of earth flight for everyone having to deal with someone that's apparently so much more of a cultural expert than someone who studied it that they have to harass them for it. Man that's embarrassing.
What i worry for this community is that every thing will run the risk of being "offensive". To the point people will be scare what to draw, what to say and what to even name their dragon.
There is cultural influence in nearly everything. Saying "no you can't do that" because it's part of another culture is a good way to foster resentment and further divide people. Exposing people to other cultures is a great way for people to create a interest in the culture. Stereotypes are bad because they are built on ignorance. Giving people a taste of culture let's them see past stereotypes to over come the ignorance built up for years.
2-cents
What i worry for this community is that every thing will run the risk of being "offensive". To the point people will be scare what to draw, what to say and what to even name their dragon.
There is cultural influence in nearly everything. Saying "no you can't do that" because it's part of another culture is a good way to foster resentment and further divide people. Exposing people to other cultures is a great way for people to create a interest in the culture. Stereotypes are bad because they are built on ignorance. Giving people a taste of culture let's them see past stereotypes to over come the ignorance built up for years.
2-cents
I'd like to mention that my Grandmother and Great Grand Mother were members of (and descendants of) the Shawnee ( since to some that seems important when it really shouldn't be). I inherited the looks and blood as well but do not call myself of the people as I am not culturally or situationally living as one (though that doesn't matter except in my own feelings) as it's a personal connection for many . Still this does not give me the right to talk about how ANYONE else except I would feel about this issue but I thought I'd go ahead and throw my 2 cents in.
That said I personally find it incredibally offensive that anyone would come into a fun contest and begin to try to pick fights over issues they admit they know nothing about! No, "knowing someone from "x" nationality/race/gender but not being of them" give you absolutely no right to try to expound on your position. If you have no knowledge other than what "some internet site" has told you please do not speak until you have actual tangible information.
I find it really bad that you think what my grandma or Grammy would think or feel is up to you. It isn't. Deciding what an entire culture , and since it's Native Americans it's actually many cultures and many peoples that you are soap boxing for not just that all inclusive "one" you are referring to, is really not okay. Isn't what you are doing even worse? You decided how "everyone one of those poor Native Americans" should feel like. Please think about how you would feel if you were in someone elses shoes and they attacked you for just such a reason?
I would like to say that @
Sanrixian I find your art to be incredibly tasteful and beautiful. I do hope you continue on making more art and I find no offense at all in what you have created. All the props to you for your level head and do please leave your art in the contest, do not let those who try to oppress others win.
I also apologize as an Earthie who was looking forward to the Rockbreaker Holidays and was not prepared for this kind of strife before it even began and please everyone don't let this get you down. I have enjoyed looking at and admiring everyones art. You are all doing a wonderful job. :3 Please go back to posting new pretties for my to ooh and ahh over!
I'd like to mention that my Grandmother and Great Grand Mother were members of (and descendants of) the Shawnee ( since to some that seems important when it really shouldn't be). I inherited the looks and blood as well but do not call myself of the people as I am not culturally or situationally living as one (though that doesn't matter except in my own feelings) as it's a personal connection for many . Still this does not give me the right to talk about how ANYONE else except I would feel about this issue but I thought I'd go ahead and throw my 2 cents in.
That said I personally find it incredibally offensive that anyone would come into a fun contest and begin to try to pick fights over issues they admit they know nothing about! No, "knowing someone from "x" nationality/race/gender but not being of them" give you absolutely no right to try to expound on your position. If you have no knowledge other than what "some internet site" has told you please do not speak until you have actual tangible information.
I find it really bad that you think what my grandma or Grammy would think or feel is up to you. It isn't. Deciding what an entire culture , and since it's Native Americans it's actually many cultures and many peoples that you are soap boxing for not just that all inclusive "one" you are referring to, is really not okay. Isn't what you are doing even worse? You decided how "everyone one of those poor Native Americans" should feel like. Please think about how you would feel if you were in someone elses shoes and they attacked you for just such a reason?
I would like to say that @
Sanrixian I find your art to be incredibly tasteful and beautiful. I do hope you continue on making more art and I find no offense at all in what you have created. All the props to you for your level head and do please leave your art in the contest, do not let those who try to oppress others win.
I also apologize as an Earthie who was looking forward to the Rockbreaker Holidays and was not prepared for this kind of strife before it even began and please everyone don't let this get you down. I have enjoyed looking at and admiring everyones art. You are all doing a wonderful job. :3 Please go back to posting new pretties for my to ooh and ahh over!
For forum games check out my hibden. Many more fully gened dragons and first gens are there.
I have some serious ongoing memory issues so if I fail to respond to any messages please give me a bump as I likely just forgot.
Stop appropriating mother nature by stealing her rock designs oh my god you insensitive jerks THE EARTH DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU YOU'RE NOT THE EARTH STOP BEING INSPIRED BY IT.
Stop appropriating mother nature by stealing her rock designs oh my god you insensitive jerks THE EARTH DOESN'T BELONG TO YOU YOU'RE NOT THE EARTH STOP BEING INSPIRED BY IT.
Wow. And here I thought Social Justice Warriors™ were just limited to Tumblr.
Guess not.
I wish people weren't so touchy when it came to topics like these. It's great to feel passionate about something, but there's also being [b]sensible[/b] enough to see what the intent of a person is when they base art off of certain aspects of a culture.
There's [b]appreciating[/b] the aesthetics of a culture enough to draw inspiration from it, and there's using it as a means to abuse and disrespect a culture.
When people get so hot and bothered like this over what another person chooses to do (over the internet might I add-- for something like a virtual pet site skin contest), I always fail to see their justification :/
[quote name="Odini" date="2013-11-21 12:09:05"] That said I personally find it incredibally offensive that anyone would come into a fun contest and begin to try to pick fights over issues they admit they know nothing about! No, "knowing someone from "x" nationality/race/gender but not being of them" give you absolutely no right to try to expound on your position. If you have no knowledge other than what "some internet site" has told you please do not speak until you have actual tangible information.[/quote]
Yes. I feel this exact same way too.
I find it hilarious how Social Justice Warriors™ constantly choose to ignore posts to this manner (Where people of closer relation to the culture they're trying to defend actually go, "WOAH GUYS. SHTAP IT. You're being silly.")
Wow. And here I thought Social Justice Warriors™ were just limited to Tumblr.
Guess not.
I wish people weren't so touchy when it came to topics like these. It's great to feel passionate about something, but there's also being
sensible enough to see what the intent of a person is when they base art off of certain aspects of a culture.
There's
appreciating the aesthetics of a culture enough to draw inspiration from it, and there's using it as a means to abuse and disrespect a culture.
When people get so hot and bothered like this over what another person chooses to do (over the internet might I add-- for something like a virtual pet site skin contest), I always fail to see their justification :/
Odini wrote on 2013-11-21 12:09:05:
That said I personally find it incredibally offensive that anyone would come into a fun contest and begin to try to pick fights over issues they admit they know nothing about! No, "knowing someone from "x" nationality/race/gender but not being of them" give you absolutely no right to try to expound on your position. If you have no knowledge other than what "some internet site" has told you please do not speak until you have actual tangible information.
Yes. I feel this exact same way too.
I find it hilarious how Social Justice Warriors™ constantly choose to ignore posts to this manner (Where people of closer relation to the culture they're trying to defend actually go, "WOAH GUYS. SHTAP IT. You're being silly.")
@
etc
Going "wow I'd love to illustrate this fairy tale!" and using elements of the culture it originates from to make an illustration? For shame, my artwork must never be shown to anyone!
You're claiming that you're holding people "accountable for offensive actions" when we're seeing quite clearly that there is little to no offense to be had on behalf of those who are 'qualified' to speak for their heritage. At this rate, there is a degree of "you are a bad person because you are appropriating these images and using them for your own" being repeated ad nauseam that it is, in fact, harassing. To break down the accusation more plainly: "You're doing a bad thing! You're a terrible person and you should quit the contest!"
That mindset is what is crippling the art community; not just here, for this little slight that means nothing other than the sharing of beauty and aesthetic, but in the larger cultural community. "Feels before reals", I believe is the mantra...
@
etc
Going "wow I'd love to illustrate this fairy tale!" and using elements of the culture it originates from to make an illustration? For shame, my artwork must never be shown to anyone!
You're claiming that you're holding people "accountable for offensive actions" when we're seeing quite clearly that there is little to no offense to be had on behalf of those who are 'qualified' to speak for their heritage. At this rate, there is a degree of "you are a bad person because you are appropriating these images and using them for your own" being repeated ad nauseam that it is, in fact, harassing. To break down the accusation more plainly: "You're doing a bad thing! You're a terrible person and you should quit the contest!"
That mindset is what is crippling the art community; not just here, for this little slight that means nothing other than the sharing of beauty and aesthetic, but in the larger cultural community. "Feels before reals", I believe is the mantra...
Ashes | F
