gender change scrolls | Suggestions

[quote]Not all of us have time to make 400kt a day to buy a dragon that we want to get that is perfect[/quote] How do you think a gender swap item is going to cost? spoiler alert - it will not be the same price as a remove gene : tertiary If you don't have the 400K to buy another dragon, I'm 700% sure that you won't have enough to buy a sex-change scroll either

Ogerpon

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March 07, 2016 19:57:14

Quote:

Not all of us have time to make 400kt a day to buy a dragon that we want to get that is perfect

How do you think a gender swap item is going to cost?

spoiler alert - it will not be the same price as a remove gene : tertiary

If you don't have the 400K to buy another dragon, I'm 700% sure that you won't have enough to buy a sex-change scroll either

Last edited on Mar 07, 2016 19:57:55 by Ogerpon

@Sopheroo

a one time expense is far more likely than continuous expenses trying to get the same result.

Dragonxborn

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March 07, 2016 19:59:29

@Sopheroo

a one time expense is far more likely than continuous expenses trying to get the same result.

@dragonxborn

Putting dragons on nests cost nothing. You need a breeding pair, maybe two, and you're set. You don't need to get rid of the breeding pair each time they fail.

Again, unless your dragon is a gen 1 Imperial or gen 1 triple, the scroll will not be worth the expense.

Ogerpon

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March 07, 2016 20:01:41

@dragonxborn

Putting dragons on nests cost nothing. You need a breeding pair, maybe two, and you're set. You don't need to get rid of the breeding pair each time they fail.

Again, unless your dragon is a gen 1 Imperial or gen 1 triple, the scroll will not be worth the expense.

Last edited on Mar 07, 2016 20:02:17 by Ogerpon

@skwerl56767 Just to be clear, I am speaking on this topic as a transman and that's the authority I use to give out these answers with confidence.

I'm pretty active in the LGBT community and to ask why transitioning is even needed is actually transphobic, it's ok that you didn't know that before now, but I am letting you know. transitioning is needed in todays society (as well as any society) because trans people are essentially born into the wrong sex. There some scientific evidence that "transness" is developed in the wombs just like sexual orientation, but that research is still very young and not as fleshed out yet as it will be. People view their own individual trans experiences differently and I won't pretend that my experience matches up with any one else's, but I see my birth sex as basically a birth defect. My body doesn't match the gender in my head and I need to take steps to make it match. Many trans people feel extreme discomfort and dissociation with their bodies and this can leads to extreme depression, self harm, suicidal thoughts or tendencies, etc. Transitioning is important because everyone deserves to be happy with themselves and no one deserves a miserable life of living as the wrong gender.

Also, just because you aren't familiar with the history of a specific people doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Here is a good resource for the history of trans people going as far back as the 1500's BC.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php

Just because there are pressing needs like food, sickness, etc does not change someone's need to express themselves as their true selves and there are examples in history of this. There were plenty of times of prosperity found in history, even ancient history. Times of wealth, peace, and bountiful food supply. Given that the entire history of mankind is not merely war, plague, and famine, those are not very good arguments for saying that LGBT people did not exist in the past until we had a sexual revolution.

Fireborn

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March 07, 2016 20:03:36

@skwerl56767 Just to be clear, I am speaking on this topic as a transman and that's the authority I use to give out these answers with confidence.

I'm pretty active in the LGBT community and to ask why transitioning is even needed is actually transphobic, it's ok that you didn't know that before now, but I am letting you know. transitioning is needed in todays society (as well as any society) because trans people are essentially born into the wrong sex. There some scientific evidence that "transness" is developed in the wombs just like sexual orientation, but that research is still very young and not as fleshed out yet as it will be. People view their own individual trans experiences differently and I won't pretend that my experience matches up with any one else's, but I see my birth sex as basically a birth defect. My body doesn't match the gender in my head and I need to take steps to make it match. Many trans people feel extreme discomfort and dissociation with their bodies and this can leads to extreme depression, self harm, suicidal thoughts or tendencies, etc. Transitioning is important because everyone deserves to be happy with themselves and no one deserves a miserable life of living as the wrong gender.

Also, just because you aren't familiar with the history of a specific people doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Here is a good resource for the history of trans people going as far back as the 1500's BC.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/02/transgender_history_trans_expression_in.php

Just because there are pressing needs like food, sickness, etc does not change someone's need to express themselves as their true selves and there are examples in history of this. There were plenty of times of prosperity found in history, even ancient history. Times of wealth, peace, and bountiful food supply. Given that the entire history of mankind is not merely war, plague, and famine, those are not very good arguments for saying that LGBT people did not exist in the past until we had a sexual revolution.

All prices negotiable! ~~~~ Gem conversion rate 1:600

@Sopheroo

getting the pairs does. And continuously breeding is a big factor in the dragon flood.

Dragonxborn

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March 07, 2016 20:06:40

@Sopheroo

getting the pairs does. And continuously breeding is a big factor in the dragon flood.

So I was just told that we need to start limiting the internet at my house now, and we're already running low on extra bandwidth, so I don't have enough time to make a detailed defense. However, my position on this hasn't changed and I still believe my arguments are valid. My arguments aside, there are three entire pages before this one with other reasons as to why a gender-change scroll is a bad idea, and that the admins may never implement something like this in the future. Anyway, I need to hop off and wait for our limit to refresh, so I won't be able to respond in a while.

skwerl56767

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March 07, 2016 20:16:09

So I was just told that we need to start limiting the internet at my house now, and we're already running low on extra bandwidth, so I don't have enough time to make a detailed defense. However, my position on this hasn't changed and I still believe my arguments are valid. My arguments aside, there are three entire pages before this one with other reasons as to why a gender-change scroll is a bad idea, and that the admins may never implement something like this in the future. Anyway, I need to hop off and wait for our limit to refresh, so I won't be able to respond in a while.

Please ping me if you respond to one of my posts. I'm very forgetful so I may not see the response otherwise.
Art & Writing Shop (on hiatus) | Skin Shop (on hiatus)
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[quote] And continuously breeding is a big factor in the dragon flood.[/quote] Gender changes will not make the dragon flood stop, sorry. The only way to stop the dragon flood is to stop shaming exalters for exalting. Or, something incredibly unpleasant, known as dragon death. No one wants dragon death to be a mechanic. No one sane.

Ogerpon

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March 07, 2016 20:38:32

Quote:

And continuously breeding is a big factor in the dragon flood.

Gender changes will not make the dragon flood stop, sorry.

The only way to stop the dragon flood is to stop shaming exalters for exalting. Or, something incredibly unpleasant, known as dragon death. No one wants dragon death to be a mechanic. No one sane.

Last edited on Mar 07, 2016 20:39:01 by Ogerpon

You can change your dragon's gender by stating what gender it is in its bio.

Decres

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March 07, 2016 20:58:08

You can change your dragon's gender by stating what gender it is in its bio.

[FLIGHT PRIDE BANNERS]
[FLIGHT BANNERS]
[EXTENDED BESTIARY]

For real herptile breeders, the practice of determining whether a specimen is male or female is called 'sexing' them. Defining their sex. Since dragons lay eggs, I'm going to assume that FR distincts the majority of them as herptofauna, since the likelyhood of every dragon breed being a monotreme is unlikely.

Gender is a social construction, and one that can easily be defined in a Dragons bio sheet free of charge.

But with my personal set of definitions aside onto the suggestion itself. I am against it.

Circumventing the challenge of finding two dragons that go well together, by offering the ability to change their sex would only hurt the breeding aspect of this game. It is a game, you have to play to get what you want. I have no qualms against the fertility, and grow up items because they do not have an impact on what the dragons actually look like. And, the youthful scroll removes a dragons ability to breed, coli and be traded.

Frayta

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March 08, 2016 04:42:19

For real herptile breeders, the practice of determining whether a specimen is male or female is called 'sexing' them. Defining their sex. Since dragons lay eggs, I'm going to assume that FR distincts the majority of them as herptofauna, since the likelyhood of every dragon breed being a monotreme is unlikely.

Gender is a social construction, and one that can easily be defined in a Dragons bio sheet free of charge.

But with my personal set of definitions aside onto the suggestion itself. I am against it.

Circumventing the challenge of finding two dragons that go well together, by offering the ability to change their sex would only hurt the breeding aspect of this game. It is a game, you have to play to get what you want. I have no qualms against the fertility, and grow up items because they do not have an impact on what the dragons actually look like. And, the youthful scroll removes a dragons ability to breed, coli and be traded.

Plagueisweenies2k15

@Dragonxborn [quote]And trans dragons are nice I own one and thats great but it cant breed and that is not great bc i need it to.[/quote] Okay... But you agreed to the stipulation of it being infertile.... Sooooo why are we here again? Either way, you're not going to have a breedable trans dragon in this situation. You also bemoaned the idea of spending "400k" on buying pairs. The dragon market is flooded. You'll spend maybe 50k all together on buying two dragons with near perfect everything. You can either scroll them both or just scroll the child when you get it. Either way, it's a one time fee. You feed exactly one extra dragon than you would if you had bought your dream dragon right away. So, I don't see where you're getting the implied expense from. If you yourself are concerned with the flood of the market, then just exalt all the failures. More people need to exalt. And really in that way you're making up for some of the expense every time. You buying two dragons and maybe geneing them up and then just being [b]patient[/b] will never be more expensive than whatever this scroll is gonna cost. You'd still be geneing them regardless of sex (not gender), so in fact it would only add to the expense on a whole. It's a sex change scroll, not a gender change scroll. You can write in the bio what gender it is, because flight rising doesn't tell you the gender of your dragon, only the sex. The sex is there to determine breeding capabilities because it takes one male and one female, by word of god (as in word of the staff). You can always say that a male dragon is female gendered or nonbinary. You can buy a female dragon and say it was once male. You told someone else to get creative with their lore, but you don't seem entirely willing to so the same. The mechanics need to come first, and this would break the game and make the dragon market worse. No matter how much you want to nickel and dime the ways it could maybe make it "better", it wouldn't. Two outcomes are possible. 1) You make the game too easy for players to finish with their goals. They make all their dream dragons, kick around for a bit, and then get bored and leave. The dragons would be worth very little more than just crying a picture and saving it on your computer and would come with no self satisfaction of working towards it. 2) People make more dream dragon goals to supplement the the ease of obtaining such things. More and more breeding. Lair spaces fill up fast. People stop buying dragons because they can just gene them instead of breeding, hoping this will help, but since not everyone is going to do this in solidarity, there are still more dragons being created than being sold or exalted. Users become unhappy and the market becomes even worse. And I suppose a third one where the site breaks because this is a game breaking suggestion. This is not a good thing, and definitely not worth being able to slap a trans label on a dragon simply because you're tired of breeding. That's the point of the game. If you don't want to do it, ask someone to do it for you or wait a while and keep checking the AH. People who hunt G1's for dream dragons do this all the time, and they definitely do eventually get what they want. It's all a matter of [b]patience[/b] and since this is a game, the staff want you to play it for as long as possible. Getting rid of something that increases the player longevity on the site isn't a favorable option. Honestly, why don't you go support the Pose Change scroll? It's the best compromise out there and it isn't site breaking. Want a male dragon who is transfemale to breed with you other female dragon? Just use a male dragon and change the pose, say it had a sex change. That is our compromise with you, and the only one you're likely going to get because it doesn't require a core mechanic rewrite and wont harm the game in any way. And this way it doesn't need to be infertile and is more reflective of what being trans is.

Haven

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March 08, 2016 05:11:58

@Dragonxborn

Quote:

And trans dragons are nice I own one and thats great but it cant breed and that is not great bc i need it to.

Okay... But you agreed to the stipulation of it being infertile.... Sooooo why are we here again? Either way, you're not going to have a breedable trans dragon in this situation.

You also bemoaned the idea of spending "400k" on buying pairs. The dragon market is flooded. You'll spend maybe 50k all together on buying two dragons with near perfect everything. You can either scroll them both or just scroll the child when you get it. Either way, it's a one time fee. You feed exactly one extra dragon than you would if you had bought your dream dragon right away. So, I don't see where you're getting the implied expense from.

If you yourself are concerned with the flood of the market, then just exalt all the failures. More people need to exalt. And really in that way you're making up for some of the expense every time. You buying two dragons and maybe geneing them up and then just being patient will never be more expensive than whatever this scroll is gonna cost. You'd still be geneing them regardless of sex (not gender), so in fact it would only add to the expense on a whole.

It's a sex change scroll, not a gender change scroll. You can write in the bio what gender it is, because flight rising doesn't tell you the gender of your dragon, only the sex. The sex is there to determine breeding capabilities because it takes one male and one female, by word of god (as in word of the staff). You can always say that a male dragon is female gendered or nonbinary. You can buy a female dragon and say it was once male.

You told someone else to get creative with their lore, but you don't seem entirely willing to so the same. The mechanics need to come first, and this would break the game and make the dragon market worse. No matter how much you want to nickel and dime the ways it could maybe make it "better", it wouldn't. Two outcomes are possible.

1) You make the game too easy for players to finish with their goals. They make all their dream dragons, kick around for a bit, and then get bored and leave. The dragons would be worth very little more than just crying a picture and saving it on your computer and would come with no self satisfaction of working towards it.
2) People make more dream dragon goals to supplement the the ease of obtaining such things. More and more breeding. Lair spaces fill up fast. People stop buying dragons because they can just gene them instead of breeding, hoping this will help, but since not everyone is going to do this in solidarity, there are still more dragons being created than being sold or exalted. Users become unhappy and the market becomes even worse.

And I suppose a third one where the site breaks because this is a game breaking suggestion.

This is not a good thing, and definitely not worth being able to slap a trans label on a dragon simply because you're tired of breeding. That's the point of the game. If you don't want to do it, ask someone to do it for you or wait a while and keep checking the AH. People who hunt G1's for dream dragons do this all the time, and they definitely do eventually get what they want. It's all a matter of patience and since this is a game, the staff want you to play it for as long as possible. Getting rid of something that increases the player longevity on the site isn't a favorable option.

Honestly, why don't you go support the Pose Change scroll? It's the best compromise out there and it isn't site breaking. Want a male dragon who is transfemale to breed with you other female dragon? Just use a male dragon and change the pose, say it had a sex change. That is our compromise with you, and the only one you're likely going to get because it doesn't require a core mechanic rewrite and wont harm the game in any way. And this way it doesn't need to be infertile and is more reflective of what being trans is.

Last edited on Mar 08, 2016 05:14:52 by Haven