"Preserving the Breed" they said. | General Discussion

@Finnley

o-o;; your wild boars are shy?

We have peccary here and they WILL SHANK YOU. They're considered highly dangerous and you shouldnt try to get near them or they will attack.

Dactyl

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November 13, 2015 17:51:53

@Finnley

o-o;; your wild boars are shy?

We have peccary here and they WILL SHANK YOU. They're considered highly dangerous and you shouldnt try to get near them or they will attack.

I can't say anything about dogs, but lambs actually have their tails docked when they're young! I've actually done this myself, which was pretty interesting because the wound is instantly cauterized (sp?) With the same device. This is actually beneficial for sheep because it prevents accumulation of feces underneath the tail and on the legs, which can then damage the wool and, more importantly, prevents maggots that would painfully dig themselves into the sheep's legs.

CatoftheCanals

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November 13, 2015 19:55:10

I can't say anything about dogs, but lambs actually have their tails docked when they're young! I've actually done this myself, which was pretty interesting because the wound is instantly cauterized (sp?) With the same device. This is actually beneficial for sheep because it prevents accumulation of feces underneath the tail and on the legs, which can then damage the wool and, more importantly, prevents maggots that would painfully dig themselves into the sheep's legs.

I hate when people mess with innocent animals to make them "prettier." People don't own animals, and it's so cruel.

MadisonFae

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November 13, 2015 19:58:59

I hate when people mess with innocent animals to make them "prettier." People don't own animals, and it's so cruel.

no

@maggotry

The thing is, docking is done at 2-3 days old, before the nerves are fully developed. How do you propose to tell at 3 days old which pups will have temperaments suitable for working and which are more suited for pets? If there's a chance they'll be working dogs, the tails all should come off. Docking at an older age is no longer docking, it's amputation. Longer healing, more risk of infection, and the dog has to re-learn how to balance since they've learned to walk with a tail. Much more traumatic.

SavageDestiny

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November 13, 2015 21:13:00

@maggotry

The thing is, docking is done at 2-3 days old, before the nerves are fully developed. How do you propose to tell at 3 days old which pups will have temperaments suitable for working and which are more suited for pets? If there's a chance they'll be working dogs, the tails all should come off. Docking at an older age is no longer docking, it's amputation. Longer healing, more risk of infection, and the dog has to re-learn how to balance since they've learned to walk with a tail. Much more traumatic.

@SavageDestiny

I'm 95% sure breeders know who they're going to be breeding for, or at least have an idea. They probably breed them with the full intent on the thought they're going to be working dogs.

No where in my reply did I say to dock tails when their nerves are fully developed. Please read it again.
I owned a rescue boxer who had been saved from his old owner because they docked his tail when he was 10 months old, his bone was still sticking out and it was a very traumatic experience for him.
Sorry if my reply somehow made you want to tell me something I am already well aware of?
I'm just against docking tails for breeders who do it just for looks, not with the intent on doing anything practical.

Rezar

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November 13, 2015 21:43:50

@SavageDestiny

I'm 95% sure breeders know who they're going to be breeding for, or at least have an idea. They probably breed them with the full intent on the thought they're going to be working dogs.

No where in my reply did I say to dock tails when their nerves are fully developed. Please read it again.
I owned a rescue boxer who had been saved from his old owner because they docked his tail when he was 10 months old, his bone was still sticking out and it was a very traumatic experience for him.
Sorry if my reply somehow made you want to tell me something I am already well aware of?
I'm just against docking tails for breeders who do it just for looks, not with the intent on doing anything practical.

@maggotry

You said that tails should only be docked for working dogs. The thing is, even in litters produced for the purpose of working, there will inevitably be puppies that aren't suitable for whatever reason. But at docking age, there's no way to tell that. So there are absolutely puppies that end up with docked tails, but aren't working dogs. That's why I was pointing out the problem with your statement that only working dogs should have docked tails.

SavageDestiny

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November 13, 2015 22:25:14

@maggotry

You said that tails should only be docked for working dogs. The thing is, even in litters produced for the purpose of working, there will inevitably be puppies that aren't suitable for whatever reason. But at docking age, there's no way to tell that. So there are absolutely puppies that end up with docked tails, but aren't working dogs. That's why I was pointing out the problem with your statement that only working dogs should have docked tails.

@Zrcalo Oh, ours will shank us as well if you're stupid, rest assured :P

But European boar are wild, undomesticated animals and the american feral hog descended mostly from domesticated livestock. It's like comparing coyotes and feral dogs - the latter have literally been bred to be unafraid of people.

Of course, I wouldn't wanna approach a boar either, but they usually run away. Heck, I accidentally stepped on one once, and even that one ran away (for which I count myself insanely lucky... because it was a big male that almost reached me to the waist!)

Anthemis

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November 14, 2015 03:21:56

@Zrcalo Oh, ours will shank us as well if you're stupid, rest assured :P

But European boar are wild, undomesticated animals and the american feral hog descended mostly from domesticated livestock. It's like comparing coyotes and feral dogs - the latter have literally been bred to be unafraid of people.

Of course, I wouldn't wanna approach a boar either, but they usually run away. Heck, I accidentally stepped on one once, and even that one ran away (for which I count myself insanely lucky... because it was a big male that almost reached me to the waist!)

Last edited on Nov 14, 2015 03:30:03 by Anthemis

i'm against de-clawing for various reasons. But honestly....let the breeder decide. Only if they have real experience with it and history with the breed rather some loser who throws two dogs together. It also depends on the breed. You honestly can't compare a smaller breed with a larger breed or a pet with a working dog. And you shouldn't make an solid opinion without experience. AND oh my...I wish I knew more about the cow issue :( BUT I will make no opinion because I am not experienced with it. LMAO boars lol. Boars scare me a bit XD

Magari

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November 14, 2015 07:50:21

i'm against de-clawing for various reasons. But honestly....let the breeder decide. Only if they have real experience with it and history with the breed rather some loser who throws two dogs together. It also depends on the breed. You honestly can't compare a smaller breed with a larger breed or a pet with a working dog. And you shouldn't make an solid opinion without experience. AND oh my...I wish I knew more about the cow issue :( BUT I will make no opinion because I am not experienced with it. LMAO boars lol. Boars scare me a bit XD

I lick things to claim them as my own..

[b]I am going to apologize in advance. I am so sorry that this is long and image-heavy.[/b] Ugh I hate the whole "keep our breed pure" propaganda that I see when I go online searching for dog images. Like these ones. [img]https://notosilverlabs.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/notosilversheader.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.blueknightlabs.com/advertisement/nosilver5.jpg[/img] I know this isn't to the extreme of tail docking and ear cropping, but it's an example of how messed up the idea of "pure breeds" is. It's a coat colour. It's not some big dis-figuration or dangerous genetic mutation. I also hate seeing people breed pure breds to the "show standard". For example, I love German Shepherds. But "white" German Shepherds are disqualified in most countries. [img]http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/dogbreeds/photos-TZ/whiteshepherdsf4.jpg[/img] That, and they have an unnatural, sloping back. This causes hip displasia. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that a sloping spine is required for "show", and anything else is not to "breed standard". [img]http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-277226-thumbflex-thuo-277226.jpg[/img] Then you have flat-faced dogs.... just no. [img]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b7/81/ba/b781ba5c0285f9f25c99825c9dea47af.jpg[/img] [img]https://mysmelly.com/image:/sitefs/perm/pi/b/y/w/8/401.315.0_f4.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.newdogworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Pug-5.jpg[/img] They're not cute. Not to me. And not to the people who know how bad it can be for dogs to have such a flat face. This is not quite the same, as it's not breed-related, but it's on par with tail docking and ear cropping. [img]http://www.peta.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/590_2D00_text_2D00_declawing_2D00_1_2D00_knuckles_2D00_cut.jpg[/img] It's just so unnecessary and incredibly bad for the cat. Side effects vary for individuals of course (I know a declawed cat who may be a bit touchy in the paws, but otherwise he's not so bad), and then I read about cats who try to avoid walking for the rest of their lives, cats who get deformed paws, cats who get severe arthritis from having to walk wrong, etc. There was even a story from a person who worked (I think with tech stuff) at a vet's office, and witnessed a cat thrash so violently in its cage after the procedure, that it broke its own neck. There are even some vets out there so twisted and sick that if only two paws are being declawed, they don't give the cat anesthetics. Some vets don't even put the cat's under completely, so they're partly awake during it. [img]http://clearcreekcatrescue.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/furniture.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.littlebigcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Clawed-vs-Declawed-Toes.jpg[/img] For anyone who wants to learn more, here's a link to The Paw Project - http://www.littlebigcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Clawed-vs-Declawed-Toes.jpg They're an amazing organization, with a movie on Netflix about declawing, a facebook page, and lots of info on why it's bad, and alternatives you can choose from. Like with tail docking and ear cropping, sometimes declawing is for the good of the cat, say to remove tumors. But it shouldn't be to protect your furniture. And don't try telling me it's to protect your kids or something - a cat's bite is a lot worse than they're claws, and trust me when I saw, declawed cats bite when threatened, instead of wack you with a paw to say "no". If you don't believe me that a cat's bite is so much worse, here's someone's account of their experience with a bite from their pet cat http://gizmodo.com/5931500/why-cat-bites-are-pretty-much-the-worst-thing-ever

Hippotang

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July 30, 2016 14:29:33

I am going to apologize in advance. I am so sorry that this is long and image-heavy.

Ugh I hate the whole "keep our breed pure" propaganda that I see when I go online searching for dog images. Like these ones.

I know this isn't to the extreme of tail docking and ear cropping, but it's an example of how messed up the idea of "pure breeds" is. It's a coat colour. It's not some big dis-figuration or dangerous genetic mutation.

I also hate seeing people breed pure breds to the "show standard". For example, I love German Shepherds. But "white" German Shepherds are disqualified in most countries.

That, and they have an unnatural, sloping back. This causes hip displasia. I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that a sloping spine is required for "show", and anything else is not to "breed standard".

Then you have flat-faced dogs.... just no.

They're not cute. Not to me. And not to the people who know how bad it can be for dogs to have such a flat face.

This is not quite the same, as it's not breed-related, but it's on par with tail docking and ear cropping.
590_2D00_text_2D00_declawing_2D00_1_2D00_knuckles_2D00_cut.jpg

590_2D00_text_2D00_declawing_2D00_1_2D00_knuckles_2D00_cut.jpg

It's just so unnecessary and incredibly bad for the cat. Side effects vary for individuals of course (I know a declawed cat who may be a bit touchy in the paws, but otherwise he's not so bad), and then I read about cats who try to avoid walking for the rest of their lives, cats who get deformed paws, cats who get severe arthritis from having to walk wrong, etc. There was even a story from a person who worked (I think with tech stuff) at a vet's office, and witnessed a cat thrash so violently in its cage after the procedure, that it broke its own neck. There are even some vets out there so twisted and sick that if only two paws are being declawed, they don't give the cat anesthetics. Some vets don't even put the cat's under completely, so they're partly awake during it.

For anyone who wants to learn more, here's a link to The Paw Project - http://www.littlebigcat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Clawed-vs-Declawed-Toes.jpg
They're an amazing organization, with a movie on Netflix about declawing, a facebook page, and lots of info on why it's bad, and alternatives you can choose from. Like with tail docking and ear cropping, sometimes declawing is for the good of the cat, say to remove tumors. But it shouldn't be to protect your furniture. And don't try telling me it's to protect your kids or something - a cat's bite is a lot worse than they're claws, and trust me when I saw, declawed cats bite when threatened, instead of wack you with a paw to say "no". If you don't believe me that a cat's bite is so much worse, here's someone's account of their experience with a bite from their pet cat http://gizmodo.com/5931500/why-cat-bites-are-pretty-much-the-worst-thing-ever