As someone from a county with pretty strict gun control (UK), I really do find it hard to understand why the US is ok with the issues guns cause. It's like the more school shootings happen the more people just shrug, which comes across as " well, we like guns more then kids anyway".
The town I live in has a pretty poor reputation, yet I don't need to worry about being shot.
As someone from a county with pretty strict gun control (UK), I really do find it hard to understand why the US is ok with the issues guns cause. It's like the more school shootings happen the more people just shrug, which comes across as " well, we like guns more then kids anyway".
The town I live in has a pretty poor reputation, yet I don't need to worry about being shot.
If weapons where banned, it would make a difference. Yes, there still will be murders by other objects, but if someone is attacked by melee weapons, there is still the possibility for self-defense or just running away, which isn't so easy with a gun pointed at you. Even if you carry a gun, it deponds, who pulls the trigger first, and criminals mostly don't have the inhibition to shoot and kill, like lots of people do have.
I know, that there still will be possibilities to get a gun, restrictions or banns would make it at least harder to obtain one, especially for children.
Even without restrictions, there should be more 'education' in the USA, before someone can obtain a weapon. I think about all the accidents in public areas or at homes, which I heard from. If all parents were more aware of the dangers of guns, there where less deadly accidents, where children shot themselves or other family members. Lots of people handle them like toys and that's absolutely wrong.
And yes, there should be more eyes on the main problem. People, who are obviously mentally unhealthy, need help and they should not get near weapons.
In germany, there do have been some shootings in the past and there are news about stabbed people almost every day, either by crime or by family dramas. But there are by far not so many killed people like in other countries and the last shooting in a school lies many years ago, only because there are weapon restrictions.
If weapons where banned, it would make a difference. Yes, there still will be murders by other objects, but if someone is attacked by melee weapons, there is still the possibility for self-defense or just running away, which isn't so easy with a gun pointed at you. Even if you carry a gun, it deponds, who pulls the trigger first, and criminals mostly don't have the inhibition to shoot and kill, like lots of people do have.
I know, that there still will be possibilities to get a gun, restrictions or banns would make it at least harder to obtain one, especially for children.
Even without restrictions, there should be more 'education' in the USA, before someone can obtain a weapon. I think about all the accidents in public areas or at homes, which I heard from. If all parents were more aware of the dangers of guns, there where less deadly accidents, where children shot themselves or other family members. Lots of people handle them like toys and that's absolutely wrong.
And yes, there should be more eyes on the main problem. People, who are obviously mentally unhealthy, need help and they should not get near weapons.
In germany, there do have been some shootings in the past and there are news about stabbed people almost every day, either by crime or by family dramas. But there are by far not so many killed people like in other countries and the last shooting in a school lies many years ago, only because there are weapon restrictions.
Free in mind and true in heart... A long journey awaits me.
@
poochyenarulez @
Wretch
The guns are already there. THE NETWORK FOR ILLEGALLY PURCHASING GUNS IS ALREADY THERE! You can't make guns harder to get just by making them illegal or adding restrictions to who can buy them because there's already a black market for guns in the US. Hell, there's a multimillion dollar black market for tobacco in the US and there's never been any attempt to make tobacco illegal. As I said already, the people who do impulsive things like shooting schools or committing suicide with guns, use guns they already owned for a different reason or take a gun that a family member that owns guns. The people who buy guns to commit crimes are buying them from a black market that already exists or are willing to endure restrictions. The only thing you can reduce by restricting gun access is accidents, which does nothing for mass shootings.
@
poochyenarulez @
Wretch
The guns are already there. THE NETWORK FOR ILLEGALLY PURCHASING GUNS IS ALREADY THERE! You can't make guns harder to get just by making them illegal or adding restrictions to who can buy them because there's already a black market for guns in the US. Hell, there's a multimillion dollar black market for tobacco in the US and there's never been any attempt to make tobacco illegal. As I said already, the people who do impulsive things like shooting schools or committing suicide with guns, use guns they already owned for a different reason or take a gun that a family member that owns guns. The people who buy guns to commit crimes are buying them from a black market that already exists or are willing to endure restrictions. The only thing you can reduce by restricting gun access is accidents, which does nothing for mass shootings.
@Marduk
Umm.. what?
You've clearly completely missed my point. You said a bunch of stuff about the UK, I responded to that. I've not written speculation on how gun controls would change things in America but honestly you're implying that the average person would go out and purchase an illegal weapon on a black market to stash in their house with their kids if gun control measures changed?
[quote]"You can't make guns harder to get just by making them illegal" [/quote]
I...what...?
That is exactly what making them illegal would do. People who are involved in crime will always find a way, sure, but that's absolutely besides the point any of us have been trying to make. We're talking about every day people. Schoolkids. Gang members don't shoot up elementary schools.
@
Marduk
Umm.. what?
You've clearly completely missed my point. You said a bunch of stuff about the UK, I responded to that. I've not written speculation on how gun controls would change things in America but honestly you're implying that the average person would go out and purchase an illegal weapon on a black market to stash in their house with their kids if gun control measures changed?
Quote:
"You can't make guns harder to get just by making them illegal"
I...what...?
That is exactly what making them illegal would do. People who are involved in crime will always find a way, sure, but that's absolutely besides the point any of us have been trying to make. We're talking about every day people. Schoolkids. Gang members don't shoot up elementary schools.
@
Marduk
Not every student obtains their guns from black market. Lots of them obtain them from their parents, which is way easier and cheaper than buying one. That happens, when parents don't lock their weapons away. There is also a black market in germany and neighbor countries, but the few frenzied attackers in germany also stole the guns from their parents or used to be sport shooters themselves.
@
Marduk
Not every student obtains their guns from black market. Lots of them obtain them from their parents, which is way easier and cheaper than buying one. That happens, when parents don't lock their weapons away. There is also a black market in germany and neighbor countries, but the few frenzied attackers in germany also stole the guns from their parents or used to be sport shooters themselves.
Free in mind and true in heart... A long journey awaits me.
so, you think that if they make a law saying you can't own assault rifles, that every person who owns one is going to just turn it in? What about these terrible people using them for these awful reasons? You REALLY think a law is going to stop them? Like how heroin, meth and all of those drugs are illegal, but magically, people still get a hold of them? Banning guns isn't the answer.
And to the person who asked WHY you should have an assault rifle...why not? Many of my military friends like having them so they can keep their skills up for when they need them. I simply enjoy shooting targets (and tannerite...make BOOM!). No other reason than enjoyment of making loud sounds, spending time with friends, and seeing who has the best skills. It's like advanced archery.
so, you think that if they make a law saying you can't own assault rifles, that every person who owns one is going to just turn it in? What about these terrible people using them for these awful reasons? You REALLY think a law is going to stop them? Like how heroin, meth and all of those drugs are illegal, but magically, people still get a hold of them? Banning guns isn't the answer.
And to the person who asked WHY you should have an assault rifle...why not? Many of my military friends like having them so they can keep their skills up for when they need them. I simply enjoy shooting targets (and tannerite...make BOOM!). No other reason than enjoyment of making loud sounds, spending time with friends, and seeing who has the best skills. It's like advanced archery.
Criminals will still obtain and use guns even if they were outlawed or restricted. However, this in no way invalidates the idea of gun control. If that were the case, why have any laws or restrictions in the first place, since criminals disobey them anyways? I mean, let's just make murder and arson legal, since people are going to do it no matter what! ...See how silly that sounds?
I feel like citizens should have the right to bear arms, much as I don't like the idea. However, assault rifles are just unnecessary. Human lives are more important than any sort of enjoyment one might get out of owning one. However, that's just my opinion, and I don't mean to insult or upset anyone.
Criminals will still obtain and use guns even if they were outlawed or restricted. However, this in no way invalidates the idea of gun control. If that were the case, why have any laws or restrictions in the first place, since criminals disobey them anyways? I mean, let's just make murder and arson legal, since people are going to do it no matter what! ...See how silly that sounds?
I feel like citizens should have the right to bear arms, much as I don't like the idea. However, assault rifles are just unnecessary. Human lives are more important than any sort of enjoyment one might get out of owning one. However, that's just my opinion, and I don't mean to insult or upset anyone.
@Wretch
[quote name="Wretch" date=2015-10-02 03:48:10]
EDIT to add: I think the crux of the issue is that sometimes, things happen. People who are unwell take a turn for the worse. Say they've slipped through the Mental Health system and they're getting no support - say they're going to do something atrocious. Surely let's at least also say that it would reduce deaths if this person didn't [i]also[/i] have easy access to guns.
[/quote]
I made my post after you made that edit. The general content of your post is also spent saying how great gun control in the UK works.
[quote name="Wretch" date=2015-10-02 07:09:36]
I...what...?
That is exactly what making them illegal would do. People who are involved in crime will always find a way, sure, but that's absolutely besides the point any of us have been trying to make. We're talking about every day people. Schoolkids. Gang members don't shoot up elementary schools.
[/quote]
No, it isn't. The guns are already out there. The black market is already there to supply guns to criminals that would buy guns for the sake of committing crimes. Adding restrictions now will do nothing to make it any harder for someone to commit a crime or do something impulsive. Maybe, [b]MAYBE[/b], in a few decades forcing people to be better educated about gun safety before they're allowed to buy will stop future school shootings. But no one advocating gun restrictions, including yourself from your posts here, is hoping for a better future. They're just throwing out a knee-jerk reaction to the latest school shooting in the hopes that changing the law will have an immediate effect in stopping mass killings.
@IndigoRyu
[quote name="Marduk" date=2015-10-02 06:53:56]
As I said already, the people who do impulsive things like shooting schools or committing suicide with guns, use guns they already owned for a different reason or take a gun that a family member that owns guns.
[/quote]
I've already addressed your point. Twice. It's part of the reason gun control won't work. People already own guns and that's where mass shooters and the suicidal are most likely to get their weapons.
@
Wretch
Wretch wrote on 2015-10-02:
EDIT to add: I think the crux of the issue is that sometimes, things happen. People who are unwell take a turn for the worse. Say they've slipped through the Mental Health system and they're getting no support - say they're going to do something atrocious. Surely let's at least also say that it would reduce deaths if this person didn't also have easy access to guns.
I made my post after you made that edit. The general content of your post is also spent saying how great gun control in the UK works.
Wretch wrote on 2015-10-02:
I...what...?
That is exactly what making them illegal would do. People who are involved in crime will always find a way, sure, but that's absolutely besides the point any of us have been trying to make. We're talking about every day people. Schoolkids. Gang members don't shoot up elementary schools.
No, it isn't. The guns are already out there. The black market is already there to supply guns to criminals that would buy guns for the sake of committing crimes. Adding restrictions now will do nothing to make it any harder for someone to commit a crime or do something impulsive. Maybe,
MAYBE, in a few decades forcing people to be better educated about gun safety before they're allowed to buy will stop future school shootings. But no one advocating gun restrictions, including yourself from your posts here, is hoping for a better future. They're just throwing out a knee-jerk reaction to the latest school shooting in the hopes that changing the law will have an immediate effect in stopping mass killings.
@
IndigoRyu
Marduk wrote on 2015-10-02:
As I said already, the people who do impulsive things like shooting schools or committing suicide with guns, use guns they already owned for a different reason or take a gun that a family member that owns guns.
I've already addressed your point. Twice. It's part of the reason gun control won't work. People already own guns and that's where mass shooters and the suicidal are most likely to get their weapons.
@Acguy
[img]http://www.louayfatoohi.com/wp-content/uploads/small%20arms%20survey%20in%202007%20-%20small.gif[/img]
Seeing as how they have half the percent of guns as the U.S. there is still a correlation. They do have half the guns as us and you can also take into account our attitude toward guns as well for the information in the graphs. Though this is from 2007 so if you find contradictory information be sure too correct me.
@
Acguy
Seeing as how they have half the percent of guns as the U.S. there is still a correlation. They do have half the guns as us and you can also take into account our attitude toward guns as well for the information in the graphs. Though this is from 2007 so if you find contradictory information be sure too correct me.
I was raised in a family where several members where in the military. I also remember one very important talk my grandfather gave me.
The Bill of Right's second amendment was put in place to allow Americans to protect themselves. Mind you this was written almost 225 years ago but I feel it's message still rings true today.
We as the American people have the right to hold a militia.
(Militia; military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.)
This right is so that people can protect themselves not just from home intruders, not only to have a means to hunt, but to protect ourselves from the Government itself. We were given this power for a reason. When a government take control over too much we will have the ability to fight back.
History repeats itself. Governments disarming citizens will leave them at the mercy of the government.
I would agree that they could make training classes mandatory. You must take a course to drive a car, taking a class on gun safety is reasonable and recommended.
I'm afraid however that they are going to force people to give up their guns when they speak of mental illness. While there is a portion of the population this is aimed at, I know they will try to cast a very large net to take guns from people who are not a threat. Obama has already set law in place to make it legal for doctors to ask if you own a gun. It won't take much for it to be required to turn in guns in exchange for treatment. People who suffer for anxiety or mild-depression will have to either allow themselves to be disarmed or suffer without treatment. This could in turn cause more damage.
I do not feel taking guns away is the answer at all. Better education and classes are needed to train the public to be on guard.
I was raised in a family where several members where in the military. I also remember one very important talk my grandfather gave me.
The Bill of Right's second amendment was put in place to allow Americans to protect themselves. Mind you this was written almost 225 years ago but I feel it's message still rings true today.
We as the American people have the right to hold a militia.
(Militia; military force that is raised from the civil population to supplement a regular army in an emergency.)
This right is so that people can protect themselves not just from home intruders, not only to have a means to hunt, but to protect ourselves from the Government itself. We were given this power for a reason. When a government take control over too much we will have the ability to fight back.
History repeats itself. Governments disarming citizens will leave them at the mercy of the government.
I would agree that they could make training classes mandatory. You must take a course to drive a car, taking a class on gun safety is reasonable and recommended.
I'm afraid however that they are going to force people to give up their guns when they speak of mental illness. While there is a portion of the population this is aimed at, I know they will try to cast a very large net to take guns from people who are not a threat. Obama has already set law in place to make it legal for doctors to ask if you own a gun. It won't take much for it to be required to turn in guns in exchange for treatment. People who suffer for anxiety or mild-depression will have to either allow themselves to be disarmed or suffer without treatment. This could in turn cause more damage.
I do not feel taking guns away is the answer at all. Better education and classes are needed to train the public to be on guard.
