General Discussion

Without having read all the replies in this topic - and without being an US citizen (Austrian person speaking here) I can only say that I am very happy, that Obama adressed the problem in a serious manner - in my eyes.

Americans can whine and talk and discuss about their 'Gun Rights' as much as they want - it is simply proven that - like Obama said - countries with strict Gun Laws, have fewer shootings - and deaths caused by guns and other firearms.

To me, it is just silly how obsessed many Americans are with their guns - of course, you guys grew up with them, but being completely serious - I Would feel terrified if I was on the open street and I saw casual citicens carrying around guns - simply because they can.


I'm also not buying this 'For protection' stuff.
Okay, if someone breaks into your house, it could make sense - but then again one could only shoot once you re sure you have the burglar in front of you - and not your child just trying to get a glass of water around midnight.
I also dont see how having a gun helps you, if your opponent has already drawn it, while you still got it next to your pants - or on your back.



Every time I hear about such shootings I just get so sad and worried.
We have children, teenagers and young adults dying - we have people getting killed, without a chance to make something out of their life.
They literally die without having been able to use their knowledge and their skills which they earned in school.
And why?
Because no one is keeping them safe.


Please, throw your virtual rocks at me and try to defend your dumb gun laws - but there is nothing which beats the statistics - and nothing which can excuse such shootings.

I know i am priviledged - and I treasure and value that I can go to school, or university, without ever having to be afraid that something like this might happen around here.
The chance is just too low, whereas in the USA - like Obama has adressed it - it seems like a sad routine.

Stricter Gun control will grant access to Guns to fewer people - which makes it more difficult for potential mass murderers to get access.
In my country if someone in the family owns a gun, it must not be loaded - it must be secured and locked - and every now and then, the police will randomly drop by and check if you really got your weapons secured.
Also, you have to earn a licence which says you are responsible - you know how to use it - and if I'm not completely mistaken, you even need to pass a psychological test.


Issuing stricter laws would only be of immediate help, if nation-wide attempts to destroy the weapon black-market would be made - and if the people were given time to earn licences - and after this period of time, all weapons would be taken from their owners, if they don't have their licence.
There need to be strict and harsh moves in order to protect the current generation - and if America can't do that because money and time - they should at least start immediate programs to ensure future generations will do better - and that in the future, buying guns will be more difficult.

@Interitum

@Acguy does have a point though. It maybe half the US size but the US population is 310 million while Switzerland population is is a fraction of that at only 8 million...

@Leika

It's still based on percentage though. Nearly 90% of U.S. population has guns. Nearly 46% of Switzerland has guns. That many guns along with our attitude of guns just creates the chaos we have. I think our problem could be solved by having much stricter gun laws and a huge change in our way of thinking towards them.

Hmm, well, people with anger issues or a history of being belligerent probably shouldn't own guns, at all.

I'm still very much for citizens owning guns, though, sorry. I like being able to defend my pets against coyotes or dogs, or bobcats. I like being able to defend myself without coming right up in someone's face if they decide to break in. I don't care if they have a gun or a knife or bare fists, being 5'1", almost everyone is going to tower over me. My parents both conceal carry; when my parents leave for a trip, dad gives me a gun. I live in the boondocks. It takes me 15 minutes to drive into town, by the time the police come if I call then I will have to wait for probably 10 minutes.

Edit: Most of my searches are finding that around 30% of the US population owns guns. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

tbh it's a problem with America's one-size-fits-all approach to public education that causes the abnormal or antisocial to fall to the wayside.

guns aren't coming to life and shooting people. guns don't whisper "SHOOT PEOPLE" to your average gun owner. real, disturbed, flesh and blood people are committing these crimes. unfortunately, the easier answer, and the one that requires the least amount of thought, is to ban guns altogether and hope that'll solve the issue.

guns have been in the hands of US citizens since the country was formed. but school shootings are a very recent phenomenon - disturbed children who have been systematically treated like outcasts by the schooling system and their peers look to previous shootings as inspirations for the extensive media coverage they get - determined to beat previous shooters' "high score" and become known, even for a few days, for something other than being a beaten outcast. this is all basic mass murder psychology here.

this is all not even mentioning how banning an item or substance doesn't stop people from buying or using them - it just creates a black market that the government can't monitor, tax, or track once a crime is actually committed.

in summation, the issue doesn't lie in americans owning guns. it more has to do with a system of variables beyond anyone's control, such as the uncompromising and outcast-producing school system and the extensive media coverage and attention shootings get when they occur. as a gun owner, my right to own that pistol is incredibly important to me for my own protection. it's my only immediate form of protection against an intrusion or an attack on the streets against me - and i refuse to have that right taken away from me because it's easier to blame shootings on guns than on the people who shoot them.

just my two cents on the matter.

[quote name="WestWindWalker" date=2015-10-02 08:08:38] To me, it is just silly how obsessed many Americans are with their guns - of course, you guys grew up with them, but being completely serious - I Would feel terrified if I was on the open street and I saw casual citicens carrying around guns - simply because they can. [/quote] I live in a farming community where people need guns to drive out the resident deer population lest they literally wind up in your backyard and start eating your garden (this has happened, I don't like nor will I hunt but I see the benefits of it happening here), and I agree with you here. It's not the gun but the person behind it, etc.. But here's the thing: people have become utterly [i]paranoid[/i] about their guns here. The combination of our state already trying to cull gun rights before due to the north end of it being Chicago, and the government wanting to do the same have people clinging to their guns as things of pride and rebellion. The confederate flag has similar ideas attached to it (and it should never have devolved into that sort of symbol because racism but that's another story). It's causing other problems. People act like they seriously will kill you if you even attempt to argue about keeping their weapon brandished. And sure, I live in a redneck town where this all is probably happening in here only, but if I were a tourist I would run away from here like the plague if I ever met that. I'd rather have some sort of gun laws take the right to do that away than keep that behavior around, but it would probably only worsen things.

Eh, you could easily go into a school and mass murder people with a knife, toxic gas, home made bomb. Heck, you could mass murder people in with cross bow. Taking away gun rights (or heavy guns) wouldn't really solve anything, people would just find another way. Not to mention it's easy so get a gun from the black market, so taking away and or restricting gun rights would actually put people in more danger due to the fact that many wouldn't be able to protect themselves.

If anything, parents should be more wary of their kids and keep their guns in a safe. With a lock. That needs a pass-code. That the obviously unstable kid shouldn't know. That's what my dad did when I was little, and we never had an incidents. In fact, whenever I was allowed to shoot a gun, my dad was always behind me holding it to make sure it didn't slip when going off. (not that I shot guns that much, I've only handled them about...five times, if that.)

BUT on the topic of heavy or powerful guns, yes I would actually restrict those. People can do fine with just a mere handgun.

@Kriten I guarantee you'll kill way less people with a knife than you do with a gun.



I just. America. Stop making up excuses. Literally everywhere else where they got gun laws there's been a SIGNIFICANT drop in shootings. Australia hasn't had a school shooting SINCE they banned guns. My country (Holland) hasn't had a school shooting in the last 11 years, where ONE person was killed.

The whole "but I need to protect myself!!!" excuse is ******** as well. YES, there'll be a black market for guns. Guess what? One already exists. And people who break into homes aren't high profile criminals. They're usually ****** kids who need to make some money. Honestly, nothing in your house is probably valuable enough to MAYBE steal to pay $500+ for a gun illegally for. Everyone is paranoid as **** about "what if someone breaks in and I need a gun!!!" but how often does a gun ACTUALLY help in those situations?

The amount of mass shootings, accidental kills, and overly violent people being stupid is so so so much more than people defending themselves with their damn gun.
If the rest of the western world can deal with criminals without using guns, so can America. People are dying. "I want to protect myself!!" or "I want to hunt!" is a terrible excuse when there's children dying because there aren't gun laws in America. And yes, I say because, because everyone knows that mass shootings are pretty much nonexistent in countries with gun laws.

I understand there isn't a need for heavy guns in public hands but there was one man who was very much for disarming citizens. His last name was Hitler. He disarmed his people... A specific group of people who he later work to eliminate.
Thus began the holocaust.

The attack yesterday was an attack on those with a certain religion.

@Leika Yes, Hitler supported disarming citizens. Hitler also ate peas. Anyone who now eats peas must be eliminated.

Really though? You're gonna get the "hitler did this!!!!" argument?? While people are DYING because of these non-existent gun laws America has?
Gun laws have proven to help everywhere. Like people have showed you, europe and australia have way less murders even because of gun laws. Not just mass shootings.
I read an earlier post where you said we need guns to protect ourself from the government. The government that has bombs, tanks, an entire army, WAY more guns than the citizens, and nukes.
Honestly, if the American government wants to **** it's people over, you're already done for. So yeah.

I literally can't imagine any argument against gun laws that's a good argument. The entirety of the western world can deal with wildlife (and australia has it worse than you guys, sorry), home intruders and the government gunless. America can too.