General Discussion

I actually love genetics, and especially love cat, horse, and rabbit color genetics, so I hope I can help.

Female ginger cats aren't exactly rare, just less common because both parents need to pass on a red gene, unlike male ginger where only the mother needs to pass on a red gene.

Also, I think O can help you with some of those. The difference between a tabby with Aa and one with AA is no difference in the appearance. The only difference is in the genetics. An Aa tabby and an AA tabby will look the same, but an Aa tabby has a 50 percent chance of passing on an A gene and 50 percent chance of passing on an a gene, while an AA tabby will always pass on an A gene to its offspring. This is because A is a dominant gene, and if only one is present it will express that trait. I believe that also applies to many of the others. Mackerel, ticked, wideband, curled ears, and possibly white are probably the same way.

On the other side, you have genes like the one for Amber. EE and Ee will look the same, because the E gene is dominant. However, an ee cat will be Amber, because the e gene is recessive, and takes two copies of the gene to express the Amber phenotype. Again, the difference between EE and Ee is only in the genes, not in the appearance. The capital letter of a gene usually memes that version is the dominant one.

As for what a modifier is, a modifier is a gene that modifies another gene. The caramel gene modifies dilute colors to have a brownish cast. So it doesn't show up on non dilute colors, and if a dilute cat doesn't have the modifier, it will not be caramelized. No modifier just means that the original genes are expressed with no modifications.

The non pointed, mink, and sepia are more complicated. Basically, the different versions of a gene are called alleles. For example, the tabby gene has two alleles, A and a. When a gene only has two alleles, dominance is much simpler. But the pointed gene has three different alleles. The C allele, which is the most dominant and makes the coat a normal solid color, the cs allele, which causes the mink pattern, and is recessive to C but dominant to cb, and the cb allele, which causes the sepia pattern and is recessive to both C and cs. This means that cs will be expressed only if there are no C alleles, and cb will be expressed only if it is the only allele present.

Unfortunately I'd have to do more research to find out the difference between Bbl and Bb, and bbl and bb

Sorry for the length, but genetics can be kind of complicated. I hope that makes it clearer, and if you have any more questions or if that doesn't make sense, just let me know.

CAT!
JAZZ HANDS

Female gingers are uncommon but not rare at all. I've met several working animal rescue and I know two folks who have one. 1/5 orange cats are female.

@Chaos199 I love looking at color genetics (odd, I know) so I thought I'd try and help. c: That being said, I'm more knowledgeable about dog genetics, so if anyone wants to correct me, feel free. lol [quote]-I don't understand the difference between black (BB), black (Bb), and black (Bbl)[/quote] A BB cat is black and doesn't carry the gene for chocolate (b) or cinnamon (bl), so it could only produce black kittens, regardless of it's mate's color. A Bb cat is black, but carries the gene for chocolate, while the Bbl cat carries the gene for cinnamon. They could produce chocolate or cinnamon kittens if bred to the right mate. [quote]-I don't understand the difference between chocolate (bb) and chocolate (bbl)[/quote] The bb cat is only has the genes for chocolate, while the bbl cat is chocolate carrying the gene for cinnamon. [quote]-I don't understand what a modifier is. There seems to be no modifier (dmdm), caramelized (Dmdm), and caramelized (DmDm)[/quote] A modifier is a gene that, well...modifies another, haha. A modifier has no visual effect if the animal does not show the gene it modifies. It looks like caramel modifies the dilute gene, so, in order for a cat to be caramel, they must be dilute (dd) AND caramel (Dmdm or DmDm). A DD/Dd + Dmdm/DmDm cat would not be caramel, nor would a dd + dmdm cat. [quote]-I don't understand the difference between tabby (Aa) and tabby (AA)[/quote] Both cats are agouti (meaning they show tabby markings) but the Aa cat carries non-agouti, while the AA cat doesn't. [quote]-" " mackerel (McMc) and mackerel (Mcmc)[/quote] The McMc cat is homozygous for mackerel tabby, while the Mcmc cat carries classic tabby. [quote]-" " spotted normal (spsp), spotted (Spsp), and spotted (spsp)[/quote] Okay, so I'm assuming in this case that spsp is a non-spotted tabby, while Spsp and SpSp are, maybe with a SpSp cat showing more defined spotting than a Spsp cat. That being said, I didn't find any concrete sources of info on it. Some said it might be a different form of tabby, while some said it might be a modifier of the Mc gene, so sorry I can't be of more help, haha. [quote]-" " ticked normal (tata), ticked (Tata), and ticked (TaTa)[/quote] A TaTa or Tata cat will have ticked tabby markings (if it's also AA/Aa). Ticked tabbies have no solid stripes on their body, although they may have them on the extremities if heterozygous (Tata) according to [url=http://messybeast.com/spotted-cats.html]this page[/url]. So a TaTa cat would look like [url=http://gavwebclass.com/FA14/chamilton/ticked.jpg]this[/url] while a Tata cat would look like [url=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/2c/6a/3a/2c6a3ad93fcdbedbd3d23bd5749e0e80.jpg]this[/url]. [quote]-" " wide band normal (wbwb), wideband (Wbwb), and wideband (WbWb)[/quote] The wideband gene "determines the width of the pale band between the pigmented tip and the follicle" and "brightens brown tabbies to golden tabbies and brightens shaded cats to chinchilla (tipped) cats" according to [url=http://messybeast.com/chinchillas.htm]this page[/url]. Basically, the cat has less black pigment on each hair, resulting in a brighter overall appearance. I'm not sure if this gene is actually dominant or recessive though, as most of the things I've read say it's a hypothetical gene. [quote]-" " non-amber (EE), non-amber (Ee), and amber (ee)[/quote] Amber is a gene that gradually replaces a cat's black pigment with red pigment. Their black markings fade to a golden color eventually. It's specific to Norwegian Forest Cats, and is recessive, so only ee cats will be affected. [quote]-" " not pointed (CC), not pointed (Ccs), not pointed (Ccb), mink (cscb), sepia (cbcb)[/quote] The CC cat does not have or carry points/sepia, while the CCs cat carries points and the Ccb cat carries sepia. These gene combos have no effect on the cat's appearance. A cscb ("mink") cat shows a blend between points and sepia. Basically, they look like a pointed cat (Siamese, for example) but with the body being a shade of brown instead of white/cream. [url=http://www.rockstarragdolls.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/85022.JPG]Like so.[/url] Sepia cats are a darker version of mink, some so dark you almost can't see their points [url=http://www.catbreedslist.com/uploads/allimg/cat-pictures/Burmese-2.jpg]like this[/url]. [quote]-" " white (Wdwd) and white (WDWD)[/quote] Both cats would be solid white, but the WDwd cat carries non-white, while the WDWD cat does not. [quote]-" " curled ears (AcAc) and curled ears (Acac)[/quote] The Acac cat carries the gene for non-curled ears, while the AcAc cat doesn't. If you have more questions or I wasn't clear about something, let me know and I'll try to help. Edit: Also, for coat length, as longhair is recessive, you can get one from breeding shorthair x shorthair or shorthair x longhair if both parents carry the gene for it.

I've seen calico mentioned a few times, so I figured I'd step in! It's a very strange and interesting genetic trick that makes it happen. Female cats (and people) have two "X" chromosomes, while males have one "X" and one "Y." One of the female's X chromosomes becomes (mostly) inactive in a cell, necessary for gene regulation. The inactivated X chromosome is known as a "Barr body." However, it's not necessarily the same X chromosome that's inactivated in all cells! The X chromosomes donated by the mother and the father can, obviously, have different alleles...and because either one or the other can be inactivated, you can have some genotypes expressing in some areas (like the ginger fur gene), but not in others. This causes the patches on the calico coat, and is also why male calicos are so rare...because two X chromosomes are needed, a male would have to be XXY (Klinefelter syndrome).

~Punnet Squares~

Also, this website is a good help.

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/catcolors.html

*Drops in through the ceiling* *Screech* Did someone say cat coat colour genetics?! This (and horse coat colour genetics) is my jam. ...I'm a weird nerd who really likes drawing cats. Though all I can say once you learn cat colour coat genetics you will never look at the Warrior cats the same way XD So many impossibly coloured kittens.

@Chaos199
If you want to go deeper into cat coat colour genetics look at Messybeast. They've done a pretty good job of explaining cat coat colour inheritance, and include some of the more obscure ones.

You've got the right idea. Basically each cat has 2 alleles per gene (as you know), and each kitten inherits one of these alleles from each parent. Then there is dominance, which basically states if the allele will be expressed at all the times it is present, or only when the animal is homozygous for the allele, or something in between.
So, going with you short hair example cats that are SS (homozygous short haired alleles) will always have short haired kittens because all kittens inherit the S allele, which is dominant over the s (long haired) allele. But if the cat is Ss half their kittens will inherit s, so if the other parent is ss (homozygous long haired) or Ss (heterozygous short haired) about half the kittens in the first pairing and a quarter in the second will be long haired. If both parents are ss then the kittens can only be long haired. Two long haired cats can only have long haired kittens.

To answer your questions:
Overall, what seems to be confusing you is dominance. Usually the capital letter allele is the most dominant, which means it will always express when present. So if the cat has A (the tabby allele) it will always be tabby, no matter if the other allele is A or a (non-tabby. aa causes a solid coloured cat). An animal that has two different alleles is called heterozygous, and this is only really affects the cat's appearance if there is some kind of interaction between the two alleles (like the cream allele in horses, where no copies you have a chestnut horse, two copies a cremello, and one copy causes a palomino, which coat colour wise is halfway between a chestnut and cremello). An animal with two copies of the same allele is homozygous. Most genes here have simple dominance, where the cat's appearance is only affected by the dominant allele. When there are multiple alleles of a gene there will be a chain of dominance, with one dominant overall, then the one after it being dominant to the ones that follow it, etc. As in A is dominant over a, aa and ab, while a is dominant over aa and ab, and aa is dominant over ab, with ab recessive to all (A->a->aa->ab).

BB is homozygous black, so all kittens will inherits B (black allele). Bb is a black cat that is heterozygous for the Brown (Chocolate is another name for this colour) allele (b), which is recessive to black but dominant to Cinnamon (bl). It goes B->b->bl, which basically means a Black cat could be BB, Bb or Bbl, a Chocoloate cat could be bb or bbl, and a Cinnamon cat can only be blbl. The differences are only important if you want to calculate the possible offspring from a pairing, to see if the Chocolate parents could produce a Cinnamon kitten.

Modifiers are genes that affect the expression of another gene. The dm gene only affects cats that are already dd (dilute). So it only expresses in cats that are grey, lilac, cream or fawn, even if a non-dilude cat has it. But it acts like normal on them, so DmDm & Dmdm cats will be caramelized , but dmdm cats won't be.

A_ cats will be tabby (the tabby type depending on other genes), while aa cats will be solid coloured (not striped).
If a cat has the Mc allele it will be a Mackerel (tiger) tabby, even if the other is mc (which is the allele for Classic tabby). mcmc cats are Classic tabbies.
If a cat has Sp then their stripes will be broken up into spots. So a cat that is spsp will be a normal striped tabby, while a cat that is Sp_ will have spots instead.
Ticked tabby is a modifier like spotted. If a cat has a Ta allele it will be Ticked, with the markings underneath the ticking depending on if it has the Mc allele or if it is homozygous mcmc.

For Wideband and Amber, basically a cat with a Wb allele will have wide bands in their ticking and a cat with an E allele will not be Amber. Amber is recessive, so only cats that are ee will have that colour.

With pointed cats, it is important to know that the Pointed gene is Siamese (cs) is different to that in the Burmese (cb). cs is incompletely dominant over cb, so when a cat is cscb the coat colour looks halfway between the two, making it mink. Not pointed, C, is dominant to both cs & cb, so a cat with C will not be pointed.

The allele for Dominant White in cats is WD, so if a cat has it the cat will be white, because, as you guessed it, it is dominant XD So WD_ cats are white, while a wDwD cat won't be white (unless they have white spotting...).
WS is the white spotting allele, which is on a different gene to WD, so if the cat has white markings it has this allele. If the cat has two copies of the allele generally it will have a higher degree of white on it, sometimes looking completely white even though it doesn't have the WD allele.

So yeah, I tried to answer your questions. Just try to understand the idea of dominance and it will make sense. If you did manage to read through all that then you are a real trooper, and I'm sorry I write so much.

If anything confuses you or you want to ask more questions just ping me, or send me a message. I love coat colour inheritance, and I'd love to help you with figuring out if the family trees of you cat OC is realistic (I've done it with my own OCs in the past. That's why I read up about it). Or, you know, just talk about impossible Warrior Cats kittens XD

[quote name="Lesley" date=2017-04-13 13:39:47] @ Krosulhah My black cat has bright yellow eyes! [img]http://orig03.deviantart.net/3c7e/f/2013/352/2/c/bellatrix__the_cat_by_dragonflylite-d6yglp2.png[/img] [/quote] @Lesley I have an old Warriors OC who looks a bit like that, minus the white chest o: The one I saw had proper orange eyes though, like fire, it was so cool. I found something on google images that looks a bit like him: [img]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/CfXwFAQBq0Q/maxresdefault.jpg[/img] It's a shame the poor cat died, there's a pretty busy road quite close to that area. It's on a hill so it wouldn't surprise me if cars were coming down fast s:

@Krosulhah @Reefknot My sister has a ginger girl :3 I think she's going to be 8 or 9 this year. She's got an interesting personality - sort of dainty-like, but she has her oddly feisty moments where she nips you or grabs you with her claws, like some aggressive display of affection.

@/Krosulhah I've never seen one myself, but that sounds super cute!

@Plenilune My sister once had a grey cat named Lacy ^^ she had pretty green eyes and very faint tabby markings on her legs and tail. She was so beautiful! But she got out of the house and ran away before they could spay her, and she never came back :( She still has her to black sisters though, Lily and Lucy.

@Imraldera That does clear up a lot of things, thank you!
So amber is it's own colour then?

@mamamouse If you're talking about the family tree image, that's not mine XD just an example of someone I follow who seems to know a lot about cat genetics and inspired me to start looking into it more

@CommanderBacon Rare was definitely the wrong word to use ^^' My sister has one, and I've seen plenty on the internet!

@Kodama Thank you! That was all super helpful :D

@Violetah AHHH I normally don't pay too much attention to it (considering the Erins already messed up on so many WELL KNOWN cat facts, like the fact that cats can land on their feet...), but the fact that Sparkpelt is somehow a ginger DRIVES ME MAD. Like jeez can't they let go of the ginger cats already?
That was all super helpful :D I've made notes of all I've learned in this thread lol
I found a cat coat calculator thing, but since it's apparently still in beta (and genetics can have so many variables) I'm not sure if it will get things quite right. I have yet to make a sophisticated family tree, but if you really don't mind I'd love some help on it ^^ I plan on figuring out all of my OCs (I've made entire Clans of OCs so far, I just love making up names and characters). I've already fixed some impossibilities! I must adjourn to bed now, as it is past 2 AM for me, but I'll come back tomorrow when I've made some fixes :D Thanks again!