General Discussion

trans includes everyone, transperson is just an extension of that.

transgender is someone who hasnt had surgery or alterations and wants to be identified as the opposite GENDER.

transsexual is someone who typically has had (or severely wants) surgery and alterations and wants to be typically exclusively identified as the opposite SEX.

hence, transGENDER and transSEXual.
I hear nothing about the latter on tumblr. In fact, I've had people tell me it's an offensive word!

I'm not in any circles, I get anonymous messages! I meet people in real life who do this and who quote tumblr and who get all their information about trans anything from tumblr!
I've been verbally attacked by these people because I identify exclusively as male. and not some wierd "trans" gender. because trans isnt a gender. its a classification.

[quote]it's to keep male and female from being 'normal' when male/female can refer to both trans and cis individuals.[/quote] why dont you think transpeople cant be normal males and females? all the transpeople I know irl dont use "cis" because they find it offensive. offensive to "cis" people and offensive to transpeople. because it labels one "normal" while the other one isnt. it adds "we realize this is normal so we'll add a term to make the gap wider and differentiate regular normal from trans normal" I feel like it's segregation. cant you just say "I'm trans" and "I'm not trans" or "I dont identify with trans" or "I used to be a dude" it's "I was born this way" vs "I wasnt born this way" which is really bad when it's really. "my brain and genitals match and I havent had any alterations, I was born this way" vs "I was born this way, and nothing matches so I'll make it match" I feel like the black crow from fritz the cat.

[quote name="Zrcalo" date="2014-06-09 04:24:52"] why dont you think transpeople cant be [b]normal[/b] males and females?[/quote] anD THEN YOU GO ON A RANT ABOUT NOT USING THE WORD NORMAL TO DESCRIBE CIS PPL smhhhhh this board is a joke at this point

Yeah, but SJK can act a bit uhh, touchy? I mean, not everything is said to offend them. They can take up jokes etc as a mortal offend. People should chill up a bit.

[quote name="Ryohei" date="2014-06-09 04:29:17"][quote name="Zrcalo" date="2014-06-09 04:24:52"] why dont you think transpeople cant be [b]normal[/b] males and females?[/quote] anD THEN YOU GO ON A RANT ABOUT NOT USING THE WORD NORMAL TO DESCRIBE CIS PPL smhhhhh this board is a joke at this point[/quote] "because it labels one "normal" while the other one isnt. it adds "we realize this is normal so we'll add a term to make the gap wider and differentiate regular normal from trans normal" you didnt read or think about what I said, so I'll reword it for you. both are normal. "cis" identifies one as more normative (which is a connotation of common) and one that is "rarer" which is the connotation of not normative. it takes people who arent trans and separates them. it takes the pepperoni off the pizza and puts it in it's own box that says "pepperoni only". so that you think pepperoni is exclusive and an additive to a pizza. not something that normally comes with pizza. its taking all the cis people and putting them in a box. then taking all the transpeople and putting them in a box, then saying "wow. those other guys arent as common as us, we have to give ourselves a name so they can be their own small group" when really a lot of the pepperoni just wants to be on the pizza. but now instead of being the pepperoni on the pizza they just want to be the cheese because they dont want to be in the box. this is why "die cis scum" exists. this is why "cis hatred" comes from. it's because you've not accepted transpeople as just the opposite gender. you gave them a box and you put them into it. you labeled yourself as separate and stepped back, so now the only way to be exclusively the other gender is to hide.

@amalryk

i don't understand at all i'm not even gonna sugarcoat it but

basically

we don't like havin to constantly defend ourselves either

(those of us who are actually talkin about things that are specifically Important To Us, like an afab person bein into feminism, a mentally ill person speakin up about ableism, etc)

in any case

that's basically the point of sj, 4 me: 4 callin out peoples' Terrible behavior towards me, personally

@Zrcalo

ah geez i'm gettin invested in this aren't i

well

some trans people are nbi but still identify as trans

so saying that 'trans people want to be the other sex' is,,,, binarist, imo

[quote]"this quote basically sums up why. maybe you misunderstood, but the use of 'normal' here suggests that you think (cis) males & (cis) females are the norm while trans are the variation."[/quote] so transpeople cant be cis or identify as cis. correct? [quote]"the entire point of the terms cis and trans are to have terms for those who were comfortable with their birth gender and those who are not, simple at that. when you simply have male/female and transmale/transfemale, you're defining one as the 'norm' and the other as the variation. having cismale/cisfemale fixes that problem."[/quote] but what if they just want to be identified as the opposite gender, and not "I changed to the opposite gender" which is what the word "cis" implies. you suddenly are forced to choose between "I need to tell the world I'm not exclusively a guy" vs "I need to hide the fact that I used to be a girl". [quote]"I feel like it's segregation." okay, you're using an exceedingly loaded term there. please look at jim crow laws and tell me how labeling people are cis is a crime as segregation was.[/quote] "seg·re·ga·tion ËŒsegriˈgāSHÉ™n/Submit noun the action or state of setting someone or something apart from other people or things or being set apart. "the segregation of pupils with learning difficulties"" [quote]"all the transpeople I know irl dont use "cis" because they find it offensive. offensive to "cis" people and offensive to transpeople." 'all the people i know use the thing i agree with therefore i have more cred' i can equally say that all the folk i know, cis and trans and nb, would rather use cis and trans because growing up cis and growing up trans are vastly different experiences (but then i'd be parroting you and we wouldn't get very far).[/quote] growing up is different than living your life as an adult. [quote]cis is not a slur. i can lists many slurs but FR is not the place to do it. cis does not have the weight that actual slurs have.[/quote] http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=cis%20scum [quote]you said; "all the transpeople I know irl dont use "cis" because they find it offensive. offensive to "cis" people and offensive to transpeople." so what would you use here instead of cis? give me an alternative that can be used to properly define non-trans individuals.[/quote] not a transperson. male. female. person. he, she, etc. "oh, you're a transperson? I'm not but thats cool. you're a guy/girl like me!" this concept is REALLY REALLY hard for other people to understand. as people are used to "gay" and "straight". which both complement each other very nicely. I'm going to use this example..... its similar to saying "wow, I just met a really cool black person today who I feel bad for because they're black and have to face hardships like getting jobs" vs "wow. I met a really cool person today who I feel bad for because their boss is a racist jerk, and I'm mad at him."

@Kawaiirhea This is going to get wordy, but I want to help you understand. Don't mistake me to be angry at you, but I will be blunt. [quote]There are some huge huge problems in the world, but Tumblr seems to revolve it's views around the more insignificant problems.[/quote] They seem insignificant to you because they don't effect you. It is not one small problem, it is hundreds of thousands of "little problems" with some big ones mixed in. You may consider, for example, men who constantly talk over women to be insignificant problems but it's a symptom of how little they care about what women have to say, which is a big problem. And it can be a daily thing. It can wear down a person. Sometimes you have to get angry, you have to complain to be heard. [quote]It seems like if you belong to a privileged group then these people aren't going to take anything you say seriously. You can't defend yourself, you can't defend your gender/race/sexuality. If you bring up valid points then suddenly the angry SJW has an 'anxiety attack' or just ;is so done I'm not even talking to you any more bye'. There is no discus[/quote] The truth of the matter is, opinions from certain people on certain things are inherently more valuable. A black person's opinion on anti-black racism is more valuable than a white person's because they have lived that experience. A white person is not exposed to anti-black racism because they are not black. They are not made targets for that reason, so they either get the impression that racism not a problem anymore or not as common as it actually is, because they do not encounter it as a white person. They can be made aware, but they will never, ever know the issue first hand. That includes me. I'm white. My thoughts on racism, all racism, holds less inherent value. That is why privileged groups are dismissed, at least in areas they have privilege in (intersectionality). Does that make sense? THERE ARE people who do use their oppression as leverage, but black people complaining about white people is not the issue. Trans people making cis joke is not a problem. Gay men who invade a woman's personal space because hey, it shouldn't matter because they're gay. Trans men threatening trans women, then crying transphobia when called out. The famous victim complex that twerfs have. These are actual things wrong with the tumblr SJ community. Straight people don't need to defend their orientation, cis people don't need to defend their gender, white people don't need to defend their race. Not against the very people they hold power over. Not against jokes, not against angry rants. They are not oppressed for these reasons, but can be for others, for which I have already given examples. A joke about cis people will not contribute to the marginalization of cis people, because they are not marginalized for being cis. Complaining about jokes and against people venting shows that you care more about how you're perceived than actual discrimination. I will admit that I have seen users use the "anxiety attack" as an excuse to stop criticism. That is yet another real issue with the SJ community. Those users tend to be the ones who are called out on their prejudice and don't want to deal with it (for example, I've seen multiple cis women make a bunch of dramatic posts about how they're crying and scared because those big mean trans people they harassed are fighting back). And not everyone owes you a debate or an audience. People I follow have to have the same debate and see the exact same complaints over and over and over and [i]over[/i] from many, many people. Sometimes on a daily basis. Look how long this post is. Look at how much I typed. Imagine how much time this has taken with me re-reading and rewording several times over. Imagine doing this, having the same exact discussion, several times a day with people who aren't willing to learn in the first place and who believe that they know more about things that effect you more than you do. Would you want to do this, every single time it's demanded of you? Wouldn't you be tempted to just reply with something snarky and be done with it? @Fianna We agree more than I assumed. But I'm still not sure of the things you're mentioning. Like, what exactly situations you're referring. [quote] My experiences have taught me that this deserved thing is not something they say outright. Not always. It's more like a feeling of implication that they want something out of you. [/quote] I still don't understand, but I don't think I can so I'll let it drop. [quote] Some do want and act as if they deserve a pedestal or applaud of some sort. [/quote] Fair enough, I've seen this issue too. [quote]They want to be right and the ideas they're fighting to be entirely wrong in the black and white sense, and anyone against or neutral or more passive about the same issue even, to be wrong.[/quote] What are the ideas you've seen people be black and white against?