Flight Rising Discussion

My litmus test: do you sound like someone annoyed about proposals for college being cheaper/free because you had to pay out the nose for it? Congrats, you're coming across as elitist to me.

I realise that dragon eyeballs and market forces around education are wildly different contexts, but the overall mindset rings the same to me. To extend the metaphor further, I totally understand being bitter or annoyed at the universe that you had to work really hard for something that's become easier over time. I don't understand taking that out on whoever didn't have to work as hard.

(And in all likelihood they actually did have to work very hard, just using a different skillset / playing with a different set of variables.)

I guess the other aspect of coming across as elitist is declaring that you have The One True Playstyle and that other players having a way to cut the knot somehow invalidates it. Like, I don't look down on whoever bought the second Frost Delver drop I got, even though I prefer to grind for Coli fams or win them in raffles. Different, and complimentary, playstyles: us Coli grinders probably wouldn't find it as rewarding if there weren't players who prefer to cut the knot and buy Coli stuff from us, and people who find the Coli mindnumbing would be missing out on a lot of site features if the Coli grinders didn't have the option of selling their stuff.

There is nothing stopping someone from making a game out of trying to breed for a Primal now. There is nothing less impressive about hatched special eyes now that they can be applied, just like there is nothing less impressive about getting a Gem gene against Basic despite Gem genes being applicable to existing dragons. Defeating the RNG is still an achievement.

It's like getting mad at a platformer for adding an easy mode. Beating Ultra Hard Heart Attack Death Mode is still an achievement, and other players enjoying different aspects of the game besides that mode doesn't invalidate it.

[quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 19:04:20" ] My litmus test: do you sound like someone annoyed about proposals for college being cheaper/free because you had to pay out the nose for it? Congrats, you're coming across as elitist to me. I realise that dragon eyeballs and market forces around education are wildly different contexts, but the overall mindset rings the same to me. To extend the metaphor further, I totally understand being bitter or annoyed at the universe that you had to work really hard for something that's become easier over time. I don't understand taking that out on whoever didn't have to work as hard.[/quote] [font=helvetica]Okay but like... this isn't college. Primal eyes on dragons are not something that is necessary for someone to obtain a career. They are not universal healthcare. A better comparison would be something like a vintage car collection: the worth is in the eye of the beholder (no pun intended), but what makes the hobby attract people is that the cars are hard to come by and require a lot of love to make look their best.* (*don't quote me on this; i actually know heck all about cars or collecting them) This isn't to say that I don't understand where you're coming from at all, but I do think the example you're giving here is a false equivalency (which is why I quoted just that part of your post).

[quote name="hakusen" date="2021-05-06 17:47:11" ] [quote name="Crimsonpizza" date="2021-05-06 17:28:27" ] I think there's a lot of pride associated with hatched primals. It doesn't make them functionally any better than vialed ones, but some who have primals they worked hard for may feel as if theirs being lumped up with vialed one takes away theirs' uniqueness. I guess that can be seen as elitist? I think it's more a touch to their ego than anything serious. [/quote] This is the kind of sentiment that.. I don't really feel good about? Because 500kt is hard work for a casual like me, meanwhile some people might just... get lucky with their hatches? To see that all my effort to customize my dragons might be deemed worthless, it's not a good feeling (I know the point is that the dragon is supposed to be special to me only and I shouldn't let it get to my head, but.... it's hard lmao) But this is just my personal perspective. I actually struggle a lot with self-worth and have to actively convince myself to not get into g1s just to "be like the cool kids" haha. And I understand that people who value uniqueness will feel that they've been shafted by the update - after all a lot of this is subjective. [/quote] I agree with you, I just think that as long as they aren't actually impacting gameplay,, why does it matter? The mods added the Vials, so you're free to use them whenever you'd like. Them being butthurt (forgive my syntax) will not influence your gameplay, and if you are not actively seeking the praise and pedestal they are so offended to lose, then it shouldn't be a problem. The truth is their pride took a little hit, and I don't blame them for that. I hatched an xyy g1 and show her off everywhere; I'd be a little salty too if suddenly everyone had xyy g1s because you can now buy them in a vial. 500kt is a completely fair price and not anywhere near free, but it will take a while for the sting to wear off for some. Unless it's extreme I don't see it as elitist; it's just ego, and completely normal for us as humans.

[quote name="hakusen" date="2021-05-06 17:47:11" ] But this is just my personal perspective. I actually struggle a lot with self-worth and have to actively convince myself to not get into g1s just to "be like the cool kids" haha. And I understand that people who value uniqueness will feel that they've been shafted by the update - after all a lot of this is subjective. [/quote] Whoops I don't think I addressed your point very well, I apologise. I see how you (or anyone) could be hurt a bit by their reactions. I personally love the update too, so don't think I don't agree with your points. I just think they should be allowed to be human, just for a little bit, before they're labeled as elitists. Some are taking it too far, but the majority will come around eventually. Buying a vial takes effort and is totally valid as well, and that's true even if some people dont like it.

Not sure if this qualifies as an elitist type behavior (but I figured it would be somewhat relevant to add), I know a few G1 collectors that now have me blocked because of the old G1 pinglist. It was extremely easy to forget to delete a name or accidentally copy the wrong section of the spreadsheet, and some of those people legit ATTACK you for pinging them wrong. It may not be the exact reason, but I am fairly sure that that is why I'm blocked by alot of the higher profile G1 collectors. All because of an accident.
I also want to add along with that, that I find that certain G1 collectors seem to have an easier time selling their dragons. I could easily ping the Hoarders for an XXY Obsidian G1 with matching eyes and maybe get like 4 replies? When others could ping them and have pages upon pages of replies that they are interested in an auction. Then that dragon sells for like 100kg while mine (which is nothing to sneeze at but I'm making a point) only snags like 60kg.

Not every G1 collector, well known or not, acts as if they are more superior to others. In fact, I've maybe only seen like a small handful of them maybe hint at an elitist attitude, and even then, people read and understand things differently, so maybe they didn't mean to come that way at all, and it is easy to make assumptions when people label themselves (such as G1 collectors). I'm a G1 collector and I mostly took it on for a challenge. I felt that buying a pretty dragon off the AH was too easy for ME PERSONALLY, thus I changed to G1s. But in the past year or so, I've become a somewhat mixed lair of G1s and G2+.

Anyways, I do definitely agree with alot of points made here. And I would definitely add more to my point if my phone wasn't at 4%.

[quote name="Tuberose" date="2021-05-06 19:12:37" ] [quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 19:04:20" ] My litmus test: do you sound like someone annoyed about proposals for college being cheaper/free because you had to pay out the nose for it? Congrats, you're coming across as elitist to me. I realise that dragon eyeballs and market forces around education are wildly different contexts, but the overall mindset rings the same to me. To extend the metaphor further, I totally understand being bitter or annoyed at the universe that you had to work really hard for something that's become easier over time. I don't understand taking that out on whoever didn't have to work as hard.[/quote] [font=helvetica]Okay but like... this isn't college. Primal eyes on dragons are not something that is necessary for someone to obtain a career. They are not universal healthcare. A better comparison would be something like a vintage car collection: the worth is in the eye of the beholder (no pun intended), but what makes the hobby attract people is that the cars are hard to come by and require a lot of love to make look their best.* (*don't quote me on this; i actually know heck all about cars or collecting them) This isn't to say that I don't understand where you're coming from at all, but I do think the example you're giving here is a false equivalency (which is why I quoted just that part of your post). [/quote] I agree, it's a wildly different context, like I said. But for me it often comes across as stemming from the same kind of "I got mine in this particular way and getting it some other way invalidates that somehow" mindset. (Or, more succinctly: "Got mine, screw you.") One is obviously a lot less serious than the other, and I'll take elitism over dragon eyeballs over elitism over college education any day. At the same time, I've seen what started out as elitism over being able to beat Ultra Hard Death Mode in games bleed into full-blown ableism, so I would argue in both cases that it's a difference of degree rather than kind. Like, I'm not saying that people who come across to me as being upset they can't lord their Primals over other players anymore are bad people the way I feel those who want to lord their college education over others are. It's a pet sim, the stakes aren't anywhere near that high. I am saying that it puts me on guard for the same reason people throwing fits about easy modes puts me on guard.

Oh, I've seen it. From some people that say they're not lol. It's definitely present.

But also I was essentially treated as an elitist for asking a simple question if there was a genuine market for nongen1 primals pre-vial lol.

I don't think anyone on the internet knows the definition of words anymore, but that's not new.

the problem occurs not when someone has something rare but when they flaunt it and say those who don't have it are 'lesser than' for not having it. being proud is also different.

take this example; someone has a gen one. this particular gen one hatched as an XXX. cool, nice, awesome, rare. this person is happy, and shows it off. great! people are like "wow that's rare!!" and are usually pretty happy for the person.

take person 2. they happen to also hatch an XXX gen one. However this person decides to go to other people's threads and say "ha, you only have an XYX gen one! You're not as Great as I am because I have an XXX! You're only a real gen one collector if you have an XXX gen one!"

see the difference? case 1 is pride, case 2 is elitism.

[quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 20:31:09" ] [quote name="Tuberose" date="2021-05-06 19:12:37" ] [quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 19:04:20" ] My litmus test: do you sound like someone annoyed about proposals for college being cheaper/free because you had to pay out the nose for it? Congrats, you're coming across as elitist to me. I realise that dragon eyeballs and market forces around education are wildly different contexts, but the overall mindset rings the same to me. To extend the metaphor further, I totally understand being bitter or annoyed at the universe that you had to work really hard for something that's become easier over time. I don't understand taking that out on whoever didn't have to work as hard.[/quote] [font=helvetica]Okay but like... this isn't college. Primal eyes on dragons are not something that is necessary for someone to obtain a career. They are not universal healthcare. A better comparison would be something like a vintage car collection: the worth is in the eye of the beholder (no pun intended), but what makes the hobby attract people is that the cars are hard to come by and require a lot of love to make look their best.* (*don't quote me on this; i actually know heck all about cars or collecting them) This isn't to say that I don't understand where you're coming from at all, but I do think the example you're giving here is a false equivalency (which is why I quoted just that part of your post). [/quote] I agree, it's a wildly different context, like I said. But for me it often comes across as stemming from the same kind of "I got mine in this particular way and getting it some other way invalidates that somehow" mindset. (Or, more succinctly: "Got mine, screw you.") One is obviously a lot less serious than the other, and I'll take elitism over dragon eyeballs over elitism over college education any day. At the same time, I've seen what started out as elitism over being able to beat Ultra Hard Death Mode in games bleed into full-blown ableism, so I would argue in both cases that it's a difference of degree rather than kind. Like, I'm not saying that people who come across to me as being upset they can't lord their Primals over other players anymore are bad people the way I feel those who want to lord their college education over others are. It's a pet sim, the stakes aren't anywhere near that high. I am saying that it puts me on guard for the same reason people throwing fits about easy modes puts me on guard. [/quote] would it be fair to say it like not elitist: "dang wish that had been a thing when i was in school" "it sucks that this isn't a(n immediately recognizable) symbol of accomplishment anymore" elitist: "back when i was a student we sold our souls to the college and liked it, don't complain when you have it so easy" "this was my symbol of accomplishment, and i am OWED recognition for it" i don't quite know how to connect it back, but i started having a lot more fun in games when i let go of that idea that "it's only valid if you play it on double plus hard" and started making save points all over the place and adjusting difficulty settings whenever i wasn't having fun, and i've 100% seen that turn into an accessibility thing on both sides- "why do you care when you (can) only play on EASY" as well as "doubleplus hard mode MUST be accessible to people with xyz relevant disability" related to the student-ness is that it's finals for me rn so i'm not super sure i've interpreted your point correctly

[quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 20:31:09" ] [quote name="SparkyLurkdragon" date="2021-05-06 19:04:20" ] My litmus test: do you sound like someone annoyed about proposals for college being cheaper/free because you had to pay out the nose for it? Congrats, you're coming across as elitist to me. [/quote] I agree, it's a wildly different context, like I said. But for me it often comes across as stemming from the same kind of "I got mine in this particular way and getting it some other way invalidates that somehow" mindset. (Or, more succinctly: "Got mine, screw you.") [/quote] Seems to me like being an elitist means you want your items or dragons to remain the same value over time. Of course it is possible that fr is moving towards a more charitable future for all. People have been asking for expensive things like imp scrolls and fest items to be more obtainable for a very long time now. So, following this definition, if imp scrolls ever get re-introduced (unlikely, but you never know), anyone objecting or being upset would be elitists There's a suggestion thread [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/3005065/1]here[/url]