[quote name="Moonbow" date="2014-10-06 11:32:38"]That "Tumblr/SJW definition" of racism has been used by academia for over 40 years, and people who have actively fought for change for even longer. When people in ivory towers are more progressive than people on the ground, it's baffling for me (as a former academic that knows those towers are still mostly filled with the same type of people, and some of the same people, as 40 years ago).
A dictionary can't tell you everything about a carrot, it certainly can't tell us everything about something as complex as institutional social structures. A dictionary is also merely a record of usage (and almost all of them will include the usage of structural power imbalance inherently needed in an oppression structure like racism) not a divine record, one shouldn't be going to them to tell them everything on anything or on very much after their school years.[/quote]
quoting bc it explains it better and was largely ignored
Moonbow wrote on 2014-10-06 11:32:38:
That "Tumblr/SJW definition" of racism has been used by academia for over 40 years, and people who have actively fought for change for even longer. When people in ivory towers are more progressive than people on the ground, it's baffling for me (as a former academic that knows those towers are still mostly filled with the same type of people, and some of the same people, as 40 years ago).
A dictionary can't tell you everything about a carrot, it certainly can't tell us everything about something as complex as institutional social structures. A dictionary is also merely a record of usage (and almost all of them will include the usage of structural power imbalance inherently needed in an oppression structure like racism) not a divine record, one shouldn't be going to them to tell them everything on anything or on very much after their school years.
quoting bc it explains it better and was largely ignored
@
InkSphynx
Hey friend, that post wasn't directed at you. I already understand that you didn't mean it that way. I was just responding to Moonbow.
Although as far as Europe is concerned, it really
isn't such a good idea to lump all of Europe together, since there are fifty different countries in Europe, and thousands of cultures - many of which are now extinct. I understand that when most people say "Europeans" they're mostly referring to a select group of countries, like England and Spain, but it's important to remember that England's sins are different from those of, say, Scotland, and that Spain's are different from those of Turkey or Russia. You can't hold the French responsible for the Dutch colonization of South Africa, or Russians responsible for the English colonization of North America, or the English for the Spanish colonization of South America. They're all distinct cultural groups with their own separate histories. Heck, there are hundreds of other cultural groups within those larger groups. Like for instance there are over one hundred minority languages spoken in Russia alone.
But, um, I'm not trying to argue with you! Honest. I'm just a bit of a history buff, and it's kinda... a really big complicated mess. Which is really why I was getting upset at some other people earlier, it's just not so good to compare real life historical events with a fantasy setting where the circumstances are so different. It oversimplifies things and erases the real issues that real oppressed people have to face. ^-^;
@
InkSphynx
Hey friend, that post wasn't directed at you. I already understand that you didn't mean it that way. I was just responding to Moonbow.
Although as far as Europe is concerned, it really
isn't such a good idea to lump all of Europe together, since there are fifty different countries in Europe, and thousands of cultures - many of which are now extinct. I understand that when most people say "Europeans" they're mostly referring to a select group of countries, like England and Spain, but it's important to remember that England's sins are different from those of, say, Scotland, and that Spain's are different from those of Turkey or Russia. You can't hold the French responsible for the Dutch colonization of South Africa, or Russians responsible for the English colonization of North America, or the English for the Spanish colonization of South America. They're all distinct cultural groups with their own separate histories. Heck, there are hundreds of other cultural groups within those larger groups. Like for instance there are over one hundred minority languages spoken in Russia alone.
But, um, I'm not trying to argue with you! Honest. I'm just a bit of a history buff, and it's kinda... a really big complicated mess. Which is really why I was getting upset at some other people earlier, it's just not so good to compare real life historical events with a fantasy setting where the circumstances are so different. It oversimplifies things and erases the real issues that real oppressed people have to face. ^-^;
you're missing my point entirely.
Using 'Europeans' as a negative metaphor singles out an entire continent of people currently and pushes forward negative connotations which might get interpreted as hate speech or racism and so on.
I'm not sure why you thought it necessary to compare it to something so very delicate in the first place tbqh.
Dont most people just say superlatives and fictional metaphors like monster or something?
you're missing my point entirely.
Using 'Europeans' as a negative metaphor singles out an entire continent of people currently and pushes forward negative connotations which might get interpreted as hate speech or racism and so on.
I'm not sure why you thought it necessary to compare it to something so very delicate in the first place tbqh.
Dont most people just say superlatives and fictional metaphors like monster or something?
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Animist no it's okay i get what you're trying to say- i have a thing for history too but i guess lumping all the countries together in order to get the point across wasnt a good idea (tho listing them all offs kinda..idk)
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Ryohei THANK YOU THIS IS WHAT I MEANT @
Podzol !!
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Animist no it's okay i get what you're trying to say- i have a thing for history too but i guess lumping all the countries together in order to get the point across wasnt a good idea (tho listing them all offs kinda..idk)
@
Ryohei THANK YOU THIS IS WHAT I MEANT @
Podzol !!
~celestial bodies don't care if you screw up~
@
InkSphynx
Yep, just checked back. It doesn't matter how many SJWs have a problem with the definition. You are wrong. You are a racist. You can be racist against white people.
I hate people like you so much. You are absolutely disgusting.
@
InkSphynx
Yep, just checked back. It doesn't matter how many SJWs have a problem with the definition. You are wrong. You are a racist. You can be racist against white people.
I hate people like you so much. You are absolutely disgusting.
@
Podzol Check this out
Quote:
"Moonbow" wrote on "2014-10-06:
That "Tumblr/SJW definition" of racism has been used by academia for over 40 years, and people who have actively fought for change for even longer. When people in ivory towers are more progressive than people on the ground, it's baffling for me (as a former academic that knows those towers are still mostly filled with the same type of people, and some of the same people, as 40 years ago).
A dictionary can't tell you everything about a carrot, it certainly can't tell us everything about something as complex as institutional social structures. A dictionary is also merely a record of usage (and almost all of them will include the usage of structural power imbalance inherently needed in an oppression structure like racism) not a divine record, one shouldn't be going to them to tell them everything on anything or on very much after their school years.
I understand you think I'm wrong, but why? Where is your proof that I'm wrong?
@
Podzol Check this out
Quote:
"Moonbow" wrote on "2014-10-06:
That "Tumblr/SJW definition" of racism has been used by academia for over 40 years, and people who have actively fought for change for even longer. When people in ivory towers are more progressive than people on the ground, it's baffling for me (as a former academic that knows those towers are still mostly filled with the same type of people, and some of the same people, as 40 years ago).
A dictionary can't tell you everything about a carrot, it certainly can't tell us everything about something as complex as institutional social structures. A dictionary is also merely a record of usage (and almost all of them will include the usage of structural power imbalance inherently needed in an oppression structure like racism) not a divine record, one shouldn't be going to them to tell them everything on anything or on very much after their school years.
I understand you think I'm wrong, but why? Where is your proof that I'm wrong?
~celestial bodies don't care if you screw up~
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Locking this thread to stop it derailing even further.
Alright guys, this thread has run its course and has
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...And this is why it's not so great to bring delicate issues from real life into it. Why, exactly, is anyone arguing over the meaning of racism? Are we even talking about the new lore anymore?
Seriously guys, this isn't the place to be discussing that. Not that it's a bad thing to discuss, quite the opposite. If you want to, I guess make a topic about it on the Off-Topic General Discussion board?
edit: oops, Mayana beat me to it :D
...And this is why it's not so great to bring delicate issues from real life into it. Why, exactly, is anyone arguing over the meaning of racism? Are we even talking about the new lore anymore?
Seriously guys, this isn't the place to be discussing that. Not that it's a bad thing to discuss, quite the opposite. If you want to, I guess make a topic about it on the Off-Topic General Discussion board?
edit: oops, Mayana beat me to it :D
"more how dragons destroying stuff belonging to others was similar to many european countries. "
But many countries have done that. In all of the continents.... Why single out European countries?
"from around the 1500s to 1900s they did some very bad things to a whole bunch of people-virtually the entire world. No one is calling you a monster, all anyone is saying is what they did was bad."
I am guessing this (hence my previous mention of America) but I assume you are American or atleast reside in that country which is why you are persisting with this tirade on europe. If that is the case, WHY specifically are you pressing on europe? America has quite the list of events that were 'bad'.
Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Vietnam, Korea etcetc. Its not like America had /NO/ part of WW1/WW2... I'm just saying... their backyard isnt exactly clean.
"Just so you know i AM the OP, which is why I keep responding to try and tell you that it's not how you are interpreting it as. You can't be racist against white people-it's a fact. There are subgroups like the Slavs and other East Europeans who have been discriminated against, but you cannot be racist to white people as a whole. I don't know why you're so convinced you can but you can't."
I feel like you are just fighting over definition?
You can, in fact, be racist to white people as a whole. That "Caucasian" characteristic can be classed as a racial identifier.
And the whole leniency for white people? You're looking from only your perspective, probably from a country who's democracy and government and leadership is mostly white. Where the white citizens are a large majority and therefore have more problems identifying certain characteristics as less favorable because it means they themselves are also less favorable. Not every Society will favour the white man.
"more how dragons destroying stuff belonging to others was similar to many european countries. "
But many countries have done that. In all of the continents.... Why single out European countries?
"from around the 1500s to 1900s they did some very bad things to a whole bunch of people-virtually the entire world. No one is calling you a monster, all anyone is saying is what they did was bad."
I am guessing this (hence my previous mention of America) but I assume you are American or atleast reside in that country which is why you are persisting with this tirade on europe. If that is the case, WHY specifically are you pressing on europe? America has quite the list of events that were 'bad'.
Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Vietnam, Korea etcetc. Its not like America had /NO/ part of WW1/WW2... I'm just saying... their backyard isnt exactly clean.
"Just so you know i AM the OP, which is why I keep responding to try and tell you that it's not how you are interpreting it as. You can't be racist against white people-it's a fact. There are subgroups like the Slavs and other East Europeans who have been discriminated against, but you cannot be racist to white people as a whole. I don't know why you're so convinced you can but you can't."
I feel like you are just fighting over definition?
You can, in fact, be racist to white people as a whole. That "Caucasian" characteristic can be classed as a racial identifier.
And the whole leniency for white people? You're looking from only your perspective, probably from a country who's democracy and government and leadership is mostly white. Where the white citizens are a large majority and therefore have more problems identifying certain characteristics as less favorable because it means they themselves are also less favorable. Not every Society will favour the white man.
