Creative Corner

@Dierdre - Sure, I can talk a bit about those things. Welcome back, by the way! The art scene... hasn't changed too much. I think more people have figured out they can charge USD though, so the competition for my money is fiercer than it was a few years ago. [quote=Is Cute Not Cool Anymore?] - Just going off what I've heard/seen/my own opinions here, there's always been a lean towards people spending their real-life money on 'real art' - that is to say, realistic stuff, or at the very least semi-realistic. Generally speaking, t/g shops seem to skew more towards offering chibi art, and $$ shops skew towards semi or realistic (though obviously this isn't always the case). This is probably because, well, the dragons people want drawn in the first place are pretty realistic (unlike a site like say, Neopets). - I don't think this has changed too much over the last few years. When I think about the times I've played the wonderful game of trying to beat other users to the punch when someone particularly popular or desirable opens shop, the threads that moved the fastest have always been with those artists who do painterly animu busts, much like the examples in your old thread. - The other thing to bear in mind is that if you're selling cute art, you're going to have to compete with FR adoptables, who are going to be able to do very similar things to what you do, just a lot cheaper. So, I think you need to address that in your thread - how exactly is your work better/more dynamic/more useful/more customized than an adoptable? No need to write an essay, but a few sentences in your thread could help people to understand why your stuff is Better Than The Competition. - It's not that cute stuff doesn't sell (some of the biggest franchises in the world are based on cutesy IP), but I think as a seller, you often have to work harder to show dumb shoppers like me that, yes, there's enough work in the cute stuff to warrant people spending money on it. - So again, it comes down to the marketing of what you're doing. Showing things like sketches or lineart may help people to understand the process. Larger images may help people to understand how much detail (and therefore work) you are adding. - Personally, the cute image that stood out to me the most was actually [url=https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7888/47381474602_0e7fd8188f_o.png]this cropped headshot[/url] (top left) from your thread. I'm not a fan of porcelain dolls, so your body proportions aren't something I'm big on, but I like your faces, the big Disney-esque eyes, the flowy hair and the gorgeous skin shading. They kind of remind me of button badges, which of course are a very popular buy at conventions, and they could serve a lot of use as Twitter icons or Discord reactions. You might not want to do realistic or anime busts at the moment, but I think you could consider offering headshots in this cutesy style. [/quote] As far as formatting goes, I think your thread's doing a very serviceable job, but here's a few little things you could do to push it that bit more. [quote=Formatting Has Never Been Cool, And Never Will Be] - I'm not [i]too [/i]sure cutting off the top of your dragon's head in the first image (first post) was the best idea. Surely you could have just made the picture a bit taller? - The second chibi on that first image should probably have the background shown as that's the product you're trying to sell! Especially with an option as expensive as $65 USD, you want the product to look as good - and as complete - as possible. - Moving downwards, I would probably prefer two very polished examples - as nice big pictures where I can see all the painted detail - rather than six pictures crammed in one little box. If you look to your old thread, it's much easier to make out the details in the example paintings, because you're displaying them one at a time and under each other.

@wub - First, second, and third talking points, comin' right up! [quote=First]- Your arrangement and sizing of the examples is fine, I can make everything out that I need to! I checked it on both mobile and desktop, and it reads pretty well. - I don't like that when I click on one of your examples, it wants to take me to "https://ibb.co/x63dRrb" - a sitename I don't recognize at all, and which therefore scares me. If you're gonna have your dragons link out to another site like that, it would be best to use Imgur, or Deviantart, or even Tumblr - or honestly, any big site, just make sure it's one I'm likely to recognize! - My personal preference as a commissioner is that the artist just links to another FR thread where they have dumped all their art - this lets me date pieces, favourite the thread so that I can keep an eye on them, and I can also go through the artworks without needing to leave FR. (That said, I do like a well-organized dA stash, so it's all just personal opinion really.) - I personally would like to see a public queue with slots that are open, slots that are taken, etc. If I needed a piece of art in a hurry, I would want to know how many people were ahead of me and when they ordered! [/quote] [quote=Second]- Your t/g ratio is off by quite a bit (it's 1:1250, not 1:1000). 100g = 125000t, basically. 25kt may not sound like much difference, but it adds up pretty fast. - At the moment, you're undercharging. When I see people undercharging, I start to wonder if something's wrong with the work, aaaaand then I don't wanna buy it, so. For flat-coloured work with clean lines like this, I would be expecting to pay around the $7-15 USD mark for a bust; that's about 700-1500g. 500g would be a bargain for a bust - you could start by lifting the price to there, perhaps. - As a general rule, don't offer to draw something if you don't have an example ready! So I would recommend you don't offer to draw the human fullbodies, just until you have an example up. (And I guess more generally - I would be a bit nervous to commission you for a human at the moment, because you only have the one example!) - There need to be some clearer rules just regarding what is a humanoid (anthros?Monsterpeople with lots of complex wings/tails/appendages?) and what is a bust vs a headshot (do you put the wings of a dragon on the bust? Do you show the arms on a bust?). You could clear up confusion pretty easily just by having one picture of a headshot, one of a bust, one of a fullbody, and labelling them appropriately. - You absolutely don't need different prices for humans/dragons. Just say there's a 100g discount for humans at all price levels - much easier to explain, and that way you can put your prices right under each of your examples. [/quote] [quote=Third] There was a sig kind of like yours that did the rounds on FurAffinity about a year ago, in one of the paid ad slots. The person who was rocking it raked in a lot of cash, because it attracted a lot of attention and really stood out! So yes, I think it's fine. And hilarious. [size=2]I've clicked on your shop before thanks to this exact banner, in fact.[/size] [/quote]

tysm for the input, this was really useful! i can finally remake the thread, ive been wanting to make it look much better but i had no idea how xD

Hey again @Spooner !

I’m slowly chipping away at opening my adoptable shop and was wondering if you would be willing to give some advice? I’ve started building a template of of my shop over here, and it’s got my current wip adopts there as placeholders and so I can easily see what to work on next.

Mainly I’m worried about the layout, and how image heavy it’s going to be since I am going to have an example of every breed. I don’t know if I’m missing any important information sections or if where I currently have everything makes it easy/hard/confusing to read.

Feel free to also critique the art, the most finished pieces are the pearl and snappers since I’ve shaded them. And I’m thinking of charging 300g (usd and treasure option available) per dragon + more for sponsoring incomplete genes .. but idk I don’t want to overcharge but I don’t want to get burnout from all the gene sponsoring.

[center]@Spooner ------ I always love some advice for art, it’s hard to judge your own work you’ve seen for years upon years on end unless it’s your old pieces. Would you mind passing some advice on pricing? I used to do a 1hr:100g time/currency ratio, but I’ve been moving upwards a little lately. [url=https://toyhou.se/8883439.at-info-ex-]Here’s[/url] some examples of my work, but the dates are extremely varying (mid 2020 to February 2021). I also have some Flightrising ones in my sig. Here’s one of my most recent examples, for a hopefully-better-estimation: ------- Brief Explanations: (because I like labelling shading styles) Multi-toned: I shade with multiple colours, using different ones for different bases. I also colour the lineart to give a smooth effect. One-toned: I shade with one colour for the majority of the draw, and keep the lineart as one colour. I will, however, make the lighting match up. ------- Multi-tone Shaded Scene - 500x950 [18/02] [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/733722612588609636/811957347860611082/Sunset.png[/img] Multi-tone Shaded Fullbody - 950x500 [17/02] [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/733722612588609636/811540706853388288/SpiritRefPT4.png[/img] Flat col. Chibi Ref. - 1500x900 [18/02] [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/733722612588609636/811914231360258058/SonechkaChibiRef..png[/img] One-tone Shaded Bust - 500x711 [16/02] [img]https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/733722612588609636/810586411383652352/Andreee.png[/img] Thanks for any and all advice given, along with the time and effort <3[/center]

@SpiritFeather - Hi! It's cool to see you're going ahead with the adopts thing, they really are so cute. I should start by saying that I've never been big on purchasing adopts - I'm always concerned about artists getting burned out (both because I'm nice and because if people burn out, I don't get my art). Adopts seem to be a bit of a perfect storm of cheap art that comes out very fast, so I tend to stay away. For that reason, you're gonna need... a lot of salt for my advice, particularly when we get to the pricing part. Just felt I should provide a little disclaimer, there! [quote=Shop Layout Things] - I don't see your shop as image-heavy - the images are quite small and load swiftly, so it's fine! - If you're looking to reduce the number of images, though, I wouldn't bother with showing the line-arts and then the finished commissions in a separate post (if you're thinking about doing that) - just show images of two completed Tundra, two Imperials, etc, so people can see both the poses and the final quality of the colouring. You could have a link under that going to the base linearts, if people ask about seeing them! - I noticed you have a heck of a pinglist for when you open. People may be in a bit of a rush to order the first round of adopts, so you want to make it as easy to order as possible. I would put the order form at the very bottom, both so that people can find it more easily (as it's not in the middle of a wall of text/images), and so that people will also see the different sizes they can order before they see the form. - You could also put it up near the top, with rules and prices, so people can look at the prices when placing an order, it's the same principle. Your call! [/quote] [quote=Art/Pricing Things] - Art is Hecking Cute! I can't say too much because I'm not a pro, but it's super clean, and I think the gender differences are super cute. Even though they're small, there's so much attention to detail already, so yeah. You totally have something sellable here, the length of that pinglist agrees. - Like I said, I don't typically buy adopts because the artists getting burned out is a real risk. But at the same time, you mentioned burnout, so I guess I can try to offer some tips. - 300g has to be too low for this, surely-? I don't have the market knowledge, buuuuut these are just such beautiful adopts, and they have that bit of extra functionality many adopts lack. I've seen worse YCHs go for $10 USD, [i]and [/i]yours have the added advantage of fitting in banners and having cute nose boops. Surely you could ask 500g, maybe do a special deal like 750g for a pair? I'd pay 750g for a pair, for sure. There's obviously interest in these adopts, we both know that from the sheer length of your pinglist, so you can push it up a bit to try and avoid burning out. - How long does it take you to draw a whole gene? I have no idea, but these look polished enough that it's gotta be worth more than fifty cents. I'm sure you're going to have to redraw the gene for each breed, too. Fifty cents, for all that? [i]Naaaaahhhh[/i]. You might want people to sponsor a gene on a specific breed only, and also pay more for that; perhaps you could offer it at a cheaper bulk price if they did sponsor a gene for all of the breeds. - Please, consider putting a ban on anything that makes you cry. I don't want you to cry. - I do not think asking ten cents per piece of apparel is a good idea. To be blunt, I don't think offering apparel on your adopts is a good idea, because of the extra drawing and linearting and shading you have to do! But if you're going to do it, I would... price it a bit more according to how much time you're going to spend of it, and perhaps price it... out of the range of dragons that have 10+ apparel items. ;) [/quote] Best of luck with your shop! You've got a lot of interest, which obviously points to good art and good sales - just try to make sure you don't burn out, would be my advice.

@SpiritX - You ever seen [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhIScvlFn2w]Soda City Funk[/url]? Getting a big vibe along those lines from your stuff, it's pretty cute and I can imagine your art with some more vaporwave-esque bgs. (The dragons remind me more of MLP though, for whatever reason. Maybe Veilspuns are just... [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/dragon/64201761]like that[/url].) Anyway, let's see. Not so much to say this time round, given y'just want pricing advice. I added a few other things anyway, 'cuz why not. [quote=Pricing/Options] - First thing I would say with anime art is that the market's pretty crowded, and there are some things commissioners look for right away. One thing that is fairly standard is the shading - hard/cel shading goes with the style, because the style's got its roots in inking and sumi-e art, and inks don't exactly shade in greyscale. It would definitely be an idea to consider offering this shading. - Flat colours are also a popular budget-kinda option that shoppers will go after, and it's less work for you too! Just another thing you might consider offering. - As far as actual pricing goes, the important thing is you don't severely undercharge and then get overwhelmed. I would say 1000g on the fullbodies/700g on the busts is fairly competitive for this quality, without it ending in you getting overrun. (You'd rather do one fullbody for 1000g rather than ten for 100g each, surely?) - The issue you'll run into going forwards is simply that there's a huge number of people drawing anime out there, and they're aaaaall undercharging. All of them. All you have over them is your own unique art, and whatever you say in the shop's text, so be persistent, be as visible as you can with your art on FR, and try to highlight the benefits of your art as much as you can in your shop. (Are you fast? Do these have a purpose, like 'cute chibis for dragon bios'? Do you make gijinkas? Do you have a particular artist or aesthetic you can draw a favourable comparison to? Do you have some kind of art special going on?) [/quote]

Hey thanks! It's super rare to come across old familiar names nowadays, and I'm really glad you still play. I'm still kinda bummed about never getting the chance to purchase manly man bios for my dragons. Please would you consider adding me to a pinglist should you ever reopen? xD

Oh gods. Thank you so much for your insight!

Your analysis is spot on - I had many concerns with how my artworks are pitching themselves against the massive tide of adopts with quick turn around times and much cheaper prices.

Probably what would help the current thread is to have more examples of dragon art, and as you said, larger images instead of a all-in-one teeny-tiny image. Thank you so much for the idea of button badges!! I figure I can offer animu headshots along chibi because they wouldn't cost as much time and pain lol

@Dierdre - Chuck me a PM if you want maaan-bios, I still do 'em - just behind the scenes, lol. I generally do them for trades in bios or doodles, but I could do em for t/g if you'd rather! :0

Yeah, adopts are gonna be competition for sure! But, like I said to the person asking advice on adopts in this thread (edit: it's on this page) - some commissioners, like moi, don't typically buy into adopts because the artists can get burned out way more easily. There's still a market for you imo, you just need to offer some options adopts typically don't, like headshots etc.