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TOPIC | Opinion on writing
[center][url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=35678939] [img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/356790/35678939_350.png[/img] [/url] I’ve been writing this little guy some lore and I wanted some critics on my writing, so I can improve and possibly write lore for all my dragons. : )[/center]

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I’ve been writing this little guy some lore and I wanted some critics on my writing, so I can improve and possibly write lore for all my dragons. : )
@TheTigersDen

Did you edit at all? There are a lot of problems here that could be fixed with a proofreader:
  • Very careless spelling mistakes ('we' in first paragraph is supposed to be 'he', cpuld, gettig)
  • Start dialogue on a new paragraph:
    Quote:
    Once they stood in front of him his frustration grow, the nocturne was half the size of his father, not much bigger then Viper himself.

    "What can such a small dragon do against dragons twice her size, she can't teach me how to fight!" He thought angry.

    "This is Midnight, she's here to take one of you back to her clan to train to be an honorable Warrior." Caspian introduced the newcomer.
  • Too many adverbs (grumpily, quietly, bitterly, smoothly, quickly-- that's not even all of them)
  • Lack of punctuation, such as after dialogue, to break up long sentences, etc.

Other than that, since the piece is incomplete, I can't comment on the plot. Best I can figure is, Viper is going with the Noc to train as a Night Warrior? Alright, no problem, just make sure you eventually include a conflict and resolution, unless this is an ongoing lore project or something. Even then you'll still need to add a conflict, otherwise the piece turns into a drabble.
@TheTigersDen

Did you edit at all? There are a lot of problems here that could be fixed with a proofreader:
  • Very careless spelling mistakes ('we' in first paragraph is supposed to be 'he', cpuld, gettig)
  • Start dialogue on a new paragraph:
    Quote:
    Once they stood in front of him his frustration grow, the nocturne was half the size of his father, not much bigger then Viper himself.

    "What can such a small dragon do against dragons twice her size, she can't teach me how to fight!" He thought angry.

    "This is Midnight, she's here to take one of you back to her clan to train to be an honorable Warrior." Caspian introduced the newcomer.
  • Too many adverbs (grumpily, quietly, bitterly, smoothly, quickly-- that's not even all of them)
  • Lack of punctuation, such as after dialogue, to break up long sentences, etc.

Other than that, since the piece is incomplete, I can't comment on the plot. Best I can figure is, Viper is going with the Noc to train as a Night Warrior? Alright, no problem, just make sure you eventually include a conflict and resolution, unless this is an ongoing lore project or something. Even then you'll still need to add a conflict, otherwise the piece turns into a drabble.
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@TheTigersDen Hey mate, and welcome to dragon lore hell. Always good to see a new writer!

Like Ethiera said, one of the most important parts of writing is editing. You'll usually want to do a few editing rounds yourself before posting it for review. It's incredible how many mistakes slip in, and the first instinct of most of us will be to catch them. You'll save yourself a headache (and open the floor to much more informative critiques) if you do structural and editing look-overs yourself.

Note that automated checkers will not be enough! Natural language processing just isn't there yet. Ex: toked, tucked. "Toked" is a real word, but isn't what you meant to say. If you're new to the language (or writing in general), I'm more than willing to walk you through an editing run or two.

There are some interesting details in this piece. The interactions between Viper and the two Midnights, as well as the implied relationship with his father, seem natural and fleshed-out. The contrasts between the mesa and the jungle help to isolate the character, and the cliffhanger end-note would make a great jumping-off point for further development.

In the meantime, I've got a challenge for you! How much of this piece can you remove without losing meaning? Re-write it to be as concise as possible: you'll get a better feel for how you as a writer handle pacing, reduce the area to edit, and help keep readers attentive.


EDIT: Sorry for the random ping, Etheria! Apparently I have some ping-the-username muscle memory :(
@TheTigersDen Hey mate, and welcome to dragon lore hell. Always good to see a new writer!

Like Ethiera said, one of the most important parts of writing is editing. You'll usually want to do a few editing rounds yourself before posting it for review. It's incredible how many mistakes slip in, and the first instinct of most of us will be to catch them. You'll save yourself a headache (and open the floor to much more informative critiques) if you do structural and editing look-overs yourself.

Note that automated checkers will not be enough! Natural language processing just isn't there yet. Ex: toked, tucked. "Toked" is a real word, but isn't what you meant to say. If you're new to the language (or writing in general), I'm more than willing to walk you through an editing run or two.

There are some interesting details in this piece. The interactions between Viper and the two Midnights, as well as the implied relationship with his father, seem natural and fleshed-out. The contrasts between the mesa and the jungle help to isolate the character, and the cliffhanger end-note would make a great jumping-off point for further development.

In the meantime, I've got a challenge for you! How much of this piece can you remove without losing meaning? Re-write it to be as concise as possible: you'll get a better feel for how you as a writer handle pacing, reduce the area to edit, and help keep readers attentive.


EDIT: Sorry for the random ping, Etheria! Apparently I have some ping-the-username muscle memory :(
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@Ethiera
I wrote the jungle part on my phone so no, no major editing. I was just really wanting some advise from people on how I can improve my writing before I continued writing. The might warrior part is about the project Viper is apart of. Thank you for the tips : )

@Oranitha
Thanks for the offer! : )
The mistakes is because I’m writing most of the lore on phone so it’s difficult for me to edit, which id no excuse. I’m assuming “isolating” the character is a good thing? I’m not familiar with writing as it is my first real attempt at writing.
The challenge you proposed sounds interesting but I don’t understand. Do you want me to re-write it with few details, where it’s only the main plot?

@Ethiera
I wrote the jungle part on my phone so no, no major editing. I was just really wanting some advise from people on how I can improve my writing before I continued writing. The might warrior part is about the project Viper is apart of. Thank you for the tips : )

@Oranitha
Thanks for the offer! : )
The mistakes is because I’m writing most of the lore on phone so it’s difficult for me to edit, which id no excuse. I’m assuming “isolating” the character is a good thing? I’m not familiar with writing as it is my first real attempt at writing.
The challenge you proposed sounds interesting but I don’t understand. Do you want me to re-write it with few details, where it’s only the main plot?

@TheTigersDen My pleasure! And yeah, forcing your character outside their comfort zone is an important step for introducing character growth. Unfamiliar locations are a great tool for that. And welcome to writing in general, then! It gets easier (and more pleasurable, I think) with time. The last question is a bit easier for me to show than explain. The gist is this: there are often ways to say the[u] same thing[/u], but with [u]fewer words[/u]. No necessary loss of detail. Here's a random chunk from the bio: [quote] "This is Midnight, she's here to take one of you back to her clan to train to be an honorable Warrior." Caspian introduced the newcomer. Midnight didn't speak just bowed her head in greeting. Viper suppressed a hiss, which he often does when he becomes angry or annoyed. "How ironic, the same name as my mother that left us" He thought bitterly. He liked this new dragon less and less. Midnight didn't speak just looked at each hatchling in turn. She spent the least amount of time on his sister, which wasn't surprising. No one would say it out loud but they all knew. Caothwyn would never become a Night Warrior, she had been born with colors to bright to let her disappear into the darkness of the night like her brothers. It seemed more like a courtesy to her that she even wasted time looking at her as a potential candidate. After Midnight had finished looking at each of them she came back and stood in front of Viper. "I would like you to come with me and train to be a warrior" She had said smoothly."[/quote] Here's an edited form (not the only, not the best): [quote]"This," said Caspain, "is Midnight. One of you will accompany her back to her clan, where you'll begin training as a Night Warrior." She simply nodded, silent. Viper suppressed an irritated hiss. [i]Midnight?[/i], he thought, [i]That's a name for nest-traitors.[/i] But he forced the thoughts of his mother, and his growing dislike for the newcomer, to the back of his mind. Midnight was inspecting the hatchlings, her indifference towards his sister Caothwyn showing slightly. The girl's colors were simply too bright--even feigned interest was an honor. But when she paused before Viper, her disinterest melted away. "This one," she said. "I'll take this one."[/quote] All the information should still be there (*should*), but sans redundancies. The new is 106 words, the old was 188--that cuts down the length by a bit over 40%. Shorter's not always better, mind, but it's a good way to get started inspecting your writing and asking questions about how you could improve. For example, I have a nasty weakness: I'll add sentences that [i]sound[/i] good but say pretty much nothing. They help me come up with a piece, but they always need to be removed at the end, or they stick out like stupid little sore thumbs. Hope this helps!
@TheTigersDen My pleasure! And yeah, forcing your character outside their comfort zone is an important step for introducing character growth. Unfamiliar locations are a great tool for that.

And welcome to writing in general, then! It gets easier (and more pleasurable, I think) with time.

The last question is a bit easier for me to show than explain. The gist is this: there are often ways to say the same thing, but with fewer words. No necessary loss of detail. Here's a random chunk from the bio:
Quote:
"This is Midnight, she's here to take one of you back to her clan to train to be an honorable Warrior." Caspian introduced the newcomer. Midnight didn't speak just bowed her head in greeting. Viper suppressed a hiss, which he often does when he becomes angry or annoyed. "How ironic, the same name as my mother that left us" He thought bitterly. He liked this new dragon less and less. Midnight didn't speak just looked at each hatchling in turn. She spent the least amount of time on his sister, which wasn't surprising. No one would say it out loud but they all knew. Caothwyn would never become a Night Warrior, she had been born with colors to bright to let her disappear into the darkness of the night like her brothers. It seemed more like a courtesy to her that she even wasted time looking at her as a potential candidate. After Midnight had finished looking at each of them she came back and stood in front of Viper. "I would like you to come with me and train to be a warrior" She had said smoothly."

Here's an edited form (not the only, not the best):

Quote:
"This," said Caspain, "is Midnight. One of you will accompany her back to her clan, where you'll begin training as a Night Warrior." She simply nodded, silent. Viper suppressed an irritated hiss. Midnight?, he thought, That's a name for nest-traitors. But he forced the thoughts of his mother, and his growing dislike for the newcomer, to the back of his mind. Midnight was inspecting the hatchlings, her indifference towards his sister Caothwyn showing slightly. The girl's colors were simply too bright--even feigned interest was an honor. But when she paused before Viper, her disinterest melted away.

"This one," she said. "I'll take this one."

All the information should still be there (*should*), but sans redundancies. The new is 106 words, the old was 188--that cuts down the length by a bit over 40%. Shorter's not always better, mind, but it's a good way to get started inspecting your writing and asking questions about how you could improve. For example, I have a nasty weakness: I'll add sentences that sound good but say pretty much nothing. They help me come up with a piece, but they always need to be removed at the end, or they stick out like stupid little sore thumbs. Hope this helps!
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@Oranitha
I see what you mean, and dang that sound way better xD
I'll definitely try putting that to practice, if you don't mind me asking how long have you been writing for?
@Oranitha
I see what you mean, and dang that sound way better xD
I'll definitely try putting that to practice, if you don't mind me asking how long have you been writing for?
@TheTigersDen Haha, glad it helped! For proper "writing things down" writing, I've been at it for several years now, but I've also been cheating a bit! :P

Parting advice (unless you've got more questions--feel free!), don't get too down on it if other people's stuff "sounds better." What you don't see is the piles of crappy fanfiction, the embarrassing first drafts, or (in my case) the 3edgy5me monologues that came before the current skill level. I was, uh...not great. You're better than when I first started, that's for sure! It's all uphill from here, and it's all just practice.
@TheTigersDen Haha, glad it helped! For proper "writing things down" writing, I've been at it for several years now, but I've also been cheating a bit! :P

Parting advice (unless you've got more questions--feel free!), don't get too down on it if other people's stuff "sounds better." What you don't see is the piles of crappy fanfiction, the embarrassing first drafts, or (in my case) the 3edgy5me monologues that came before the current skill level. I was, uh...not great. You're better than when I first started, that's for sure! It's all uphill from here, and it's all just practice.
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@Oranitha

Ya, I'll keep practicing and hopefully I'll improve : )
I think whats helped me out was when I used to be apart of some role play threads and I would see examples of some really talented writers.

I feel like a bother asking and these questions but it's been bothering me. How do you deal with each details like the surroundings? Do you usually only include it if it's relevant or do you add in the extra lines to give the readers a visual of the current surrounding even if it may not add much to the plot?
@Oranitha

Ya, I'll keep practicing and hopefully I'll improve : )
I think whats helped me out was when I used to be apart of some role play threads and I would see examples of some really talented writers.

I feel like a bother asking and these questions but it's been bothering me. How do you deal with each details like the surroundings? Do you usually only include it if it's relevant or do you add in the extra lines to give the readers a visual of the current surrounding even if it may not add much to the plot?
@TheTigersDen

Ooh yeah, I've heard great things about using RP to polish writing skills. Which reminds me, I should check that out some day! :>

And it's no bother! Being asked questions is a wonderful thing. There's a lot of stuff that I don't think about as often as I should; this helps. You're doing me as much a service as I'm doing you, maybe more.

Anyways (and as with most things in writing), it sort of varies depending on what you're doing at the time. Details aren't just for providing a backdrop. Amount of detail can change the pacing of a piece; choice of words can help shape a reader's understanding of what's going on. A few things to ask yourself:

  1. What sort of tempo am I going for? If it's an action scene, probably don't want to stop the action for a paragraph describing a rock nearby. Similarly, if it's a relaxed lunch, it might make sense to insert some observations on kids playing in the canal or something, just to slow down the pace.
  2. What makes sense for the character? If they've just arrived in a new area, they're probably going to look around at least a little (and what they see and how they express it can convey info to the audience. Do they sneer at an art gallery, or consider stopping in?)
  3. What's important for the reader to know? Yeah, it might not make a ton of sense for a character who's been someplace a thousand times to make observations on it, but if it's an important location, it might be good to slip in a few details.

You don't necessarily need to stop the action to insert detail, and I'd say there's a good bit of room for personal preference and style. It's not something I worry over too much...when you go back to re-read a piece, you'll start picking up on weirdness with the pacing and can shuffle detail accordingly.

Here's a little sample scene written out in 5 levels of detail. I'd say that the middle three are perfectly acceptable, and I could see getting use out of the first (albeit not as the style for an entire piece). The last one is a bit too much--it really takes you out of the action.

Quote:
The zombie moved towards him threateningly.

The zombie lurched towards him, fluid trickling from its maw.

The dragon dragged itself towards him, skin split open, fetid muscles exposed. There was mania in its dead eyes, and each unsteady step spattered the curtains with dark fluid.

There was something moving towards him, lurching forward on bowed and unsteady limbs. In the starlight filtering through the shattered window, he could see its skin was split and cracked, spilling dark fluid onto the carpet below. It pulled its mouth wide in a strange sneer, half threatening, half begging.

The creature dragged itself forward, each step labored, limbs bowed as if broken. The starlight filtering through the window was weak, but glinted off the shards of glass on the once-rich carpet. The wallpaper was stained and faded, and the creature's slow movements released streams of dark fluid onto it and the floor below. The corridor was further crowded by old chairs and stacks of scrolls. It was impossible to make out the writing, but...
@TheTigersDen

Ooh yeah, I've heard great things about using RP to polish writing skills. Which reminds me, I should check that out some day! :>

And it's no bother! Being asked questions is a wonderful thing. There's a lot of stuff that I don't think about as often as I should; this helps. You're doing me as much a service as I'm doing you, maybe more.

Anyways (and as with most things in writing), it sort of varies depending on what you're doing at the time. Details aren't just for providing a backdrop. Amount of detail can change the pacing of a piece; choice of words can help shape a reader's understanding of what's going on. A few things to ask yourself:

  1. What sort of tempo am I going for? If it's an action scene, probably don't want to stop the action for a paragraph describing a rock nearby. Similarly, if it's a relaxed lunch, it might make sense to insert some observations on kids playing in the canal or something, just to slow down the pace.
  2. What makes sense for the character? If they've just arrived in a new area, they're probably going to look around at least a little (and what they see and how they express it can convey info to the audience. Do they sneer at an art gallery, or consider stopping in?)
  3. What's important for the reader to know? Yeah, it might not make a ton of sense for a character who's been someplace a thousand times to make observations on it, but if it's an important location, it might be good to slip in a few details.

You don't necessarily need to stop the action to insert detail, and I'd say there's a good bit of room for personal preference and style. It's not something I worry over too much...when you go back to re-read a piece, you'll start picking up on weirdness with the pacing and can shuffle detail accordingly.

Here's a little sample scene written out in 5 levels of detail. I'd say that the middle three are perfectly acceptable, and I could see getting use out of the first (albeit not as the style for an entire piece). The last one is a bit too much--it really takes you out of the action.

Quote:
The zombie moved towards him threateningly.

The zombie lurched towards him, fluid trickling from its maw.

The dragon dragged itself towards him, skin split open, fetid muscles exposed. There was mania in its dead eyes, and each unsteady step spattered the curtains with dark fluid.

There was something moving towards him, lurching forward on bowed and unsteady limbs. In the starlight filtering through the shattered window, he could see its skin was split and cracked, spilling dark fluid onto the carpet below. It pulled its mouth wide in a strange sneer, half threatening, half begging.

The creature dragged itself forward, each step labored, limbs bowed as if broken. The starlight filtering through the window was weak, but glinted off the shards of glass on the once-rich carpet. The wallpaper was stained and faded, and the creature's slow movements released streams of dark fluid onto it and the floor below. The corridor was further crowded by old chairs and stacks of scrolls. It was impossible to make out the writing, but...
cL9yafY.gif
My attempt to do Oranitha challenge will ping when I have more done
Viper is the second in his clutch but we refused to be second best. He dedicated most of his free time to refining his fighting skills, in hopes of one day proving to his family that he was worthy of the title Night Warrior. He does't remember his mother Midnight, she had gone to serve the Stormcatcher soon after his hatching. His father now left with three hatchlings to take care of and train to be Night Warriors sought help from allied clans that had previously taken in Night Warriors in training.


Second sibling doesn’t mean second best. Viper sow to that, devoting all his time to training. He was going to prove he was a Night Warrior. He wasn’t going to let his mother abandoneding them hold him back. His father now budened with caring for everyone alone sought help from allied clans. And soon help arrived.



My attempt to do Oranitha challenge will ping when I have more done
Viper is the second in his clutch but we refused to be second best. He dedicated most of his free time to refining his fighting skills, in hopes of one day proving to his family that he was worthy of the title Night Warrior. He does't remember his mother Midnight, she had gone to serve the Stormcatcher soon after his hatching. His father now left with three hatchlings to take care of and train to be Night Warriors sought help from allied clans that had previously taken in Night Warriors in training.


Second sibling doesn’t mean second best. Viper sow to that, devoting all his time to training. He was going to prove he was a Night Warrior. He wasn’t going to let his mother abandoneding them hold him back. His father now budened with caring for everyone alone sought help from allied clans. And soon help arrived.