Announcements & News

[quote name="butcherbaby" date="2023-10-26 16:54:05" ] [quote name="Xhaztol" date="2023-10-26 14:51:36" ] [quote name="jackaling" date="2023-10-26 14:13:38" ] [quote name="Aequorin" date="2023-10-26 14:05:32" ] [quote name="Flaxen" date="2023-10-26 13:58:21" ] I don't understand the thought process behind adding new features for skin/accent artists, and then taking another one away in the same update. [/quote] Hi @Flaxen! There's been a misunderstanding. Nothing's been taken away in this update. We offered players some transparency in today's update and communicated future plans about the functionality of pings. These plans currently do not have a set date or timeline for implementation. I hope this helps. [/quote] [i]the moment it’s implemented[/i], there will be massive repercussions for many communities. giving us time to adjust does [i]not[/i] allow us to come up with solutions for the functionality that is being taken away with absolutely 0 replacement in sight. the community can’t ‘play around’ with a tool that has [i]none[/i] of the functions of off-site pinglists because the functions cannot be replicated. this is a massive burden for users who have already spent years creating and maintaining tools. [/quote] If I can make an observation... It feels like you're saying here that our viewpoint will not change between now and then (a "then" that we have communicated several times does not yet exist), even in light of the feedback we're getting today. We're not solely treating this as a transitionary period, it's 100% an opportunity, on our side, to make further refinements - and that goes for most things we launch. There's 0 replacement in sight because we've yet to build one, it doesn't mean it'll [i]never[/i] exist—remember that the feature launched only a few hours ago! I'd also like to take the time to mention: [LIST] [*]We've implemented one change based on player feedback (see Site Status) since the launch and are working on another right now. [*]We have removed nothing today, and we don't have plans to remove anything tomorrow, or the next day. This is an open-ended period for a reason. [*]We have shown pretty consistently that we listen and try to implement improvements that will benefit as many of you as possible, especially in the wake of feature launches that have a lot of lively discussion, feedback, and concerns. We're not perfect, but we've got a great track record. This is no different. [*]Mass-pinging, in its current form, has to change in some capacity for both security and infrastructural reasons. It is very clear, given today's discussions, that we can't wholesale remove the premise behind mass-pinging without bridging the gap and providing a solution. We will be absorbing every drop of feedback we get today and beyond to help inform what those changes are, and how they can best serve a majority of our community. [*]The first step was having the feature at all in order to mitigate what was already widespread abuse targeting hundreds of our players in very public settings. [/LIST] [/quote] @Xhaztol I’m going to make an observation of my own, that what it feels like to myself and probably many (if not most) of the people making complaints here is that the on-site pinglist - while a long needed and very much appreciated addition- was developed without taking into account how the people who utilize pinglists on the site actually use them, which is generally in far more complex ways than are currently addressed by this update. And this “[b] It is very clear, given today's discussions, that we can't wholesale remove the premise behind mass-pinging without bridging the gap and providing a solution.[/b]” makes it feel like it really does come as a surprise to the people behind the scenes that players require a different solution, rather than you all were aware, but just needed to get the more basic structure in place/bug free before you could work on the more complex & detailed mass & public pinglists that dom groups, hatcheries, g1 & other dragon/rare item search hubs, the swipp list and others require. And that’s just frustrating & disappointing if after a decade, the people behind the scenes are that unaware of how people are currently using the site & its available functionalities. I think people would have been very understanding if the announcement had been something like, “we understand that this doesn’t address all the ways pinglists are currently used by players but to mitigate harassment we wanted to get the basic structure into place/working bug free before we work on those more complex mechanics, with the help of use feedback since you know what features will be most useful!” or something along those lines. Instead, there is only the most basic of pinglist functionality with no indication that needed changes/additions will be made before the ability to use the specialized mass pinglists they’ve perfected over many years is gone altogether (and I’ve already encountered one skin artist who did not realize that the ability to mass ping wasn’t being shut off immediately so that part was definitely not made clear enough.) I’ve been here a long time and while the site was always pretty good about responding to user feedback with positive changes, I’ve watched it improve a LOT over the years as well*, and I have no reason to think people won’t be listened to here (I mean I honestly don’t anyone wants to deal with the fallout otherwise- “Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats living together! Mass hysteria!” [emoji=coatl laughing size=1] ) It would have been a lot more reassuring to players if their real pinglist needs had been considered to begin with, though. *[s]though legible coli captcha screens and more active lair space WHEN lol[/s] [/quote] ------ [quote name="Xaz" date="2023-10-26 16:59:31" ] [quote name="butcherbaby" date="2023-10-26 16:54:05" ] I’m going to make an observation of my own, that what it feels like to myself and probably many (if not most) of the people making complaints here is that the on-site pinglist - while a long needed and very much appreciated addition- was developed without taking into account how the people who utilize pinglists on the site actually use them, which is generally in far more complex ways than are currently addressed by this update. And this “ It is very clear, given today's discussions, that we can't wholesale remove the premise behind mass-pinging without bridging the gap and providing a solution.” makes it feel like it really does come as a surprise to the people behind the scenes that players require a different solution, rather than you all were aware, but just needed to get the more basic structure in place/bug free before you could work on the more complex & detailed mass & public pinglists that dom groups, hatcheries, g1 & other dragon/rare item search hubs, the swipp list and others require. And that’s just frustrating & disappointing if after a decade, the people behind the scenes are that unaware of how people are currently using the site & its available functionalities. [/quote] I just wanna highlight this part here. I feel like sometimes part of the problem with staff, even though you are all quite lovely people, is you don't... play the game? No one who makes the game plays the game. At least not for real except maybe our CM? And so when changes are made or things added they can sometimes feel completely alienating because the behind the scene staff just don't play the game at all so have very little grasp on what people actually need or want beyond a 'pinglist function'. And it's a nice foundation don't get me wrong! But it desperately needed real player feedback before this point. Someone mentioned some posts back encouraging staff to go look at shops, look at hatcheries, look at how people are actually using pinglists and I'm seconding. I also think staff as a whole should be more open to the idea of beta testers. Make them sign an NDA like you do artists and have real players actually test things like this. Features like this can become an echo chamber of everyone agreeing about how something was implemented and then its a shock when you do implement it and people bring up their very real concerns and worries. I know people would be falling foot over mouth to sign up for beta testing and if they breach then ban them from the program. [/quote] Thank you, both @Xaz and @butcherbaby, for putting into words so eloquently something I have seen a few players too concerned to talk about on site for over a year. You two worded things perfectly and I cannot be more behind what you both have said. I have not seen a more polite discourse in this area to date and I am so relieved to see this finally being confidently said. No need to reply: just wanted to thank you and hope that more people can see this. Absolute royalty here, the both of you [emoji=familiar heart size=1]