Flight Rising Discussion

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ahaha no worries, I have a bad habit of sneaking more edits on. ;D

I'm 100% sure there are players like you out there... but I think the majority of people didn't care that much about eyes the first, or now the second time.
I still don't... for me it's more the communication issues, how long it took (because I was of the opinion in the first eyepocalypse to just keep the scattervials stocked in market, easy solve and alllllllll of this could have been avoided) and as many people have stated, this means pretty much anything can change with enough screaming and... I'm not convinced that's a good thing.

@Anayalation Personally I'm not any more worried than I was before, because there is precedent for this, like as was mentioned about the lack of Scrying Workshop in the beginning of the site and why it was added. I don't like the idea of the people who scream the loudest getting whatever they want either, but the fact that it took three years makes me think they considered it very carefully.

Maybe it could have been communicated more clearly, but... Well... Game dev lol

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How should I put it... I'm also not more worried? I had a seafoam progen before the colourwheel expansion...... so.... yeah, my expectations are basically at the bottom of a well. Just I'm silly and every time there's enough back-lash i think 'ah, maybe now communication will improve' and... silly me. ;D

[quote name="Sorel" date="2021-05-06 09:48:38" ] [quote name="Silverishness" date="2021-05-06 08:54:56" ] I have a full set of naturally born primal g1s. I've spent an obscene amount of gems purchasing them, scattering them, geneing and dressing them. I have every reason to be upset over this update, but I'm not. Honestly, the eye update should have been done like this in the first place. Rare and exclusive items are fine, but attainable. For many players, a primal g1 was not attainable, much less many, and there was no other way to change an already existing dragon aside from an item that was becoming more and more expensive as time passed. While I may have been able to afford the ones I purchased, many others I knew were not. Even long-time players that only played casually. Instead of creating a new way to customize a dragon and make it unique, it created an environment of "haves" and "have-nots". In a game centered around collecting and hoarding, it felt wrong. With how staff has been handling new items that are traditionally retired and retired items in general with Joxar and Roundsey, it seems they're trying to get away from creating more and more instances of the stated environment above. And I'm all for it. Gatekeeping aspects of dragon customization shouldn't be a thing. WC scrolls are expensive, but they still cycle and there's an unlimited quantity of them when they are around. Other gem genes are also constantly available. These new eye vials are also getting sniped and resold at a higher price, and that's fine. Expensive, but attainable. I personally despise that Imp scrolls are locked behind obscenely expensive price tags and rarity and I do hope at some point staff brings them back somehow, but that's not really what this thread is for. The point is, this was a step forward in creating a more balanced playing field for those that have just started their dragon journey and those that have been here and have many assets to liquidate at their leisure. This was a good update, even if it came three years too late. [/quote] Everyone keeps saying the eye's created an atmosphere of elitism but are people not aware that low ID dragons and G1 were already the realm of the rich and older players? Even with the 'loss' of primals as a status symbol Gen1s and low ID (and gen1 imps) still exist and still show the haves and the have nots. Same with things like the first festival items and anniversary gifts. The only way to 'level the playing field' for newbs is to make every single item on the site available at all times to all players at a really low price. Sure roundsey adds back items every now and again but the rare stuff she gives out is limited. what happens when she runs out of donated items to give? Just one more thing to separate the classes i guess... [/quote] I didn't say that the eye update [i]did [/i]level the playing field altogether, but it was a step toward it. Most of the discourse for the retired items, specifically the ones that are consumables, is that eventually they'll be extinct. What then? I disagree that these older items would need to be explicitly cheap to be available. It's just that they need to be eventually available to anyone that decides to pursue them. Older dragons are not really a part of this, I feel, since my qualm comes solely from the site distributing items and then cutting them off to create a false scarcity. Joxar is a good answer for that, but the first two years' worth of fest items should be placed in there as well. Again, the big issue I had with the eyes how they were was that this game is all about dragon customization. Breed -save one- colors, genes, even pose were all something the player could tailor to their every whim... but not eyes. A player should be able to create the dragon they want without breeding for years or spending thousands of gems on scattersights. It was a punishing mechanic, and has been made more accessible now. That's a good thing.

I'm al little annoyed with the notion of "needing a marker for naturally born" special eyes. No, they do not. I can understand that people are upset, but marking certain dragons as having been born with special eye types vs Vialed would be the staff telling people that their dragon is inherently less valuable and special, and they do not do that for any other way of customization (and frankly, I do not want that, either.). They don't tell you if a XXY/XXX gen 1 has been scattered or not. They don't tell you if/ how many times something has been breed changed.

It will only create and worsen elitism. It will only give people a sense of superiority, and the worst of it mighty use it to harass other players. Not to mention, it devalues the OTHER hard work that can go into getting a special eye type. It's not cheap to get a Primal Vial. Why should that hard work be devalued?

I get that people feel like their investments have been for nothing, and I feel for that, but unfortunately in changing markets, that's just how it goes sometimes.

I was lucky enough to hatch my Multigaze Fae, who still sits in my lair unnamed. I was lucky enough to get a Multi G1, but her colors were (and still are) awful. I love both these dragons, but (I would HATE them having an "Extra Special Born Like This" marker.

It's great that we don't have to fight RNG for the perfect dragon anymore. Again, I don't think that it devalues anyone's work to get a special eyes dragon. It is a lot of RNG to trudge through, and a lot of nests that don't give you anything. But you can still do that.

People are allowed to be upset about and not like the update, but they shouldn't be pushing to devalue and belittle other people's dragons.

[quote name="GuidanceOfficer" date="2021-05-05 19:44:46" ] I'm in grad school and [u]just[/u] finished my last final, and I'm running on like....4 hours of sleep, if that. So I hope this makes sense isn't just a stream of consciousness post. Also, I tried to make this post polite, so if any of it sounds aggressive, I don't mean it to be (I'm just super tired). It's not about having a 'dream flight' though. It's about having something to do on this site. As it's been pointed out in this thread, KS items are out of the realm of possibility for almost all players. For collectors, primals were a middle ground that became something to work for that was obtainable. I'll never afford a cog frog or boolean, but I could realistically buy a G1 primal or any other primal. I can't even buy those types of dragons anymore, because for all I know a seller has slapped the primal vial on them and is marking the price up. Essentially, I'd like FR to have goals along a spectrum: no difficulty little difficulty some difficulty moderate difficulty Heavy difficulty Impossible Unfortunately, it feels like FR has cut out the majoring of the middle levels, leaving us with: no difficulty little difficulty [s]some difficulty moderate difficulty Heavy difficulty[/s] Impossible I want a middle ground back. There's becoming less and less to collect (especially when all new releases are also available in the MP), and even less that are pure RNG. There are several things to acknowledge here, that I feel we're missing in the discussion: To one player, a task may be of some difficultly, to another it is impossible. This is largely based on resources. We have resources in FR (being an older player with rare items, art abilities such as art shops, those who can make custom skins/accents) and real life resources (time to devote to the site, access to a device/internet, money to buy gems)). I understand where some new players (especially those not art inclined) can feel shut out of the game. And yes, that's a problem because you don't want to alienate new users. However, this is where I found primals to be a benefit, as you could be a new user and RNG could still bless you with a primal. Primals weren't something that new users were locked out of (unlike the sprites which you can only get after [i]a lot[/i] of dedication to this game, and even then it's only a maybe). Do I want the game to be fun for new users? Yes, absolutely. But this game also needs to be fun for me, or I really don't have a reason to stay. And the argument of "well it's fun for somebody else, so go pound sand" is unconstructive and has honestly dragged this whole argument out (this is not directed at you, more of a comment about how some users have been handling this situation). I've never been more disappointed I've been in the community. Combine this with the response of the developers to steadily remove challenges and I feel dispirited. What's the solution here when the staff remove goals? For me not to spend time on FR? With how this was released, the staff are effectively picking one subset of users and what makes the game fun for them over another. And that's great....if you're the one being picked. I'm not anti-update and I'm not demanding to be pandered to. This is a discussion forum and largely a vent-fest. If I wanted to be pandered to, I'd go to the suggestions forum and make a thread about Eyepocolypse 2.0 and demand they change things back. Largely, I've stayed away from the suggestions forum and have been using this one to vent. [/quote] This is an excellent point but I fear the general response will be "accesability is more important than user retention, new players are more important to the overall health of the game than keeping old ones" Which hilariously enough it was the argument that older players were being shut out of the original eye update that was most prominent when they first implemented that....

[quote name="Finna" date="2021-05-06 10:54:03" ] I'm al little annoyed with the notion of "needing a marker for naturally born" special eyes. No, they do not. I can understand that people are upset, but marking certain dragons as having been born with special eye types vs Vialed would be the staff telling people that their dragon is inherently less valuable and special, and they do not do that for any other way of customization (and frankly, I do not want that, either.). They don't tell you if a XXY/XXX gen 1 has been scattered or not. They don't tell you if/ how many times something has been breed changed. It will only create and worsen elitism. It will only give people a sense of superiority, and the worst of it mighty use it to harass other players. Not to mention, it devalues the OTHER hard work that can go into getting a special eye type. It's not cheap to get a Primal Vial. Why should that hard work be devalued? I get that people feel like their investments have been for nothing, and I feel for that, but unfortunately in changing markets, that's just how it goes sometimes. I was lucky enough to hatch my Multigaze Fae, who still sits in my lair unnamed. I was lucky enough to get a Multi G1, but her colors were (and still are) awful. I love both these dragons, but (I would HATE them having an "Extra Special Born Like This" marker. It's great that we don't have to fight RNG for the perfect dragon anymore. Again, I don't think that it devalues anyone's work to get a special eyes dragon. It is a lot of RNG to trudge through, and a lot of nests that don't give you anything. But you can still do that. People are allowed to be upset about and not like the update, but they shouldn't be pushing to devalue and belittle other people's dragons. [/quote] We've already had a big discussion about how staff have already specially marked dragons as more valuable in the form of roundsey dragons having a special mark. If you don't like that I suggest you start a suggestion thread asking for the marks to be removed from dragon won off roundsey.

[quote name="Finna" date="2021-05-06 10:54:03" ] I'm al little annoyed with the notion of "needing a marker for naturally born" special eyes. No, they do not. I can understand that people are upset, but marking certain dragons as having been born with special eye types vs Vialed would be the staff telling people that their dragon is inherently less valuable and special, and they do not do that for any other way of customization (and frankly, I do not want that, either.). They don't tell you if a XXY/XXX gen 1 has been scattered or not. They don't tell you if/ how many times something has been breed changed. It will only create and worsen elitism. It will only give people a sense of superiority, and the worst of it mighty use it to harass other players. Not to mention, it devalues the OTHER hard work that can go into getting a special eye type. It's not cheap to get a Primal Vial. Why should that hard work be devalued? I get that people feel like their investments have been for nothing, and I feel for that, but unfortunately in changing markets, that's just how it goes sometimes. I was lucky enough to hatch my Multigaze Fae, who still sits in my lair unnamed. I was lucky enough to get a Multi G1, but her colors were (and still are) awful. I love both these dragons, but (I would HATE them having an "Extra Special Born Like This" marker. It's great that we don't have to fight RNG for the perfect dragon anymore. Again, I don't think that it devalues anyone's work to get a special eyes dragon. It is a lot of RNG to trudge through, and a lot of nests that don't give you anything. But you can still do that. People are allowed to be upset about and not like the update, but they shouldn't be pushing to devalue and belittle other people's dragons. [/quote] @Finna Hello! I think the more suitable suggestion would be this [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/3004624#post_3004624]>one<[/url]. Its a changelog/history of the dragon, listed in the dragon's profile, which I think will be better than just a mark, so people can determine the worth/value whatever based on their own judgement after seeing the history. Really can't say for other people, but I don't think differentiating is devalue-ing or belittling other people's dragon, its just telling them apart, whether the value increases or not is really up to the person. Its also more for the collector people, who kinda want a unique kind/type of dragon, not to say the dragon isn't special anymore, its just special in that person's eyes and they want to collect them. This special could be "I want dragons with three colors apart" "I want dragons that beat the odds" literally could be anything. To me, natural born or vialed eyes dont really matter, so whether there is a mark or no, doesn't affect how special my dragon is going to be to me.

[quote name="Celinikal" date="2021-05-06 10:48:58" ] [quote name="GuidanceOfficer" date="2021-05-05 19:44:46" ] I think the thing that I don't see in this argument is that, like, you can want to play the game a certain way because you're an older player and that's fine. But things that make the game more challenging for YOU make it more restrictive for new players. I'm sorry but just because you've put time into this game, doesn't mean you're the majority of its playerbase, and even if you are, that doesn't mean the devs have to pander to you. Something I noticed when this update came out is that it's another update that people have been asking for for ages, that for YEARS if you BOTHERED to suggest in the suggestions forum, people would shout you down and condescendingly tell you that's not how the game works. And people do that for almost any update. Remember when pose-changing scrolls were unthinkable? I got yelled at for suggesting to add a "return to nesting grounds" button to the page where you're shown your new hatchlings! People on this website resist literally any update that makes the game experience smoother and it's one of the reasons I'm no longer as active on Flight Rising. Maybe having the game be extra challenging keeps you coming back. But it makes other players not want to return to the site when anything they want to do to their dragons is ridiculously expensive or time-consuming. I understand that that's a part of the game's design, but updates that balance that and make it more viable for less dedicated players are important. You aren't more deserving of your dream flight rising experience than other players for any reason. [/quote] I'm in grad school and [u]just[/u] finished my last final, and I'm running on like....4 hours of sleep, if that. So I hope this makes sense isn't just a stream of consciousness post. Also, I tried to make this post polite, so if any of it sounds aggressive, I don't mean it to be (I'm just super tired). It's not about having a 'dream flight' though. It's about having something to do on this site. As it's been pointed out in this thread, KS items are out of the realm of possibility for almost all players. For collectors, primals were a middle ground that became something to work for that was obtainable. I'll never afford a cog frog or boolean, but I could realistically buy a G1 primal or any other primal. I can't even buy those types of dragons anymore, because for all I know a seller has slapped the primal vial on them and is marking the price up. Essentially, I'd like FR to have goals along a spectrum: no difficulty little difficulty some difficulty moderate difficulty Heavy difficulty Impossible Unfortunately, it feels like FR has cut out the majoring of the middle levels, leaving us with: no difficulty little difficulty [s]some difficulty moderate difficulty Heavy difficulty[/s] Impossible I want a middle ground back. There's becoming less and less to collect (especially when all new releases are also available in the MP), and even less that are pure RNG. There are several things to acknowledge here, that I feel we're missing in the discussion: To one player, a task may be of some difficultly, to another it is impossible. This is largely based on resources. We have resources in FR (being an older player with rare items, art abilities such as art shops, those who can make custom skins/accents) and real life resources (time to devote to the site, access to a device/internet, money to buy gems)). I understand where some new players (especially those not art inclined) can feel shut out of the game. And yes, that's a problem because you don't want to alienate new users. However, this is where I found primals to be a benefit, as you could be a new user and RNG could still bless you with a primal. Primals weren't something that new users were locked out of (unlike the sprites which you can only get after [i]a lot[/i] of dedication to this game, and even then it's only a maybe). Do I want the game to be fun for new users? Yes, absolutely. But this game also needs to be fun for me, or I really don't have a reason to stay. And the argument of "well it's fun for somebody else, so go pound sand" is unconstructive and has honestly dragged this whole argument out (this is not directed at you, more of a comment about how some users have been handling this situation). I've never been more disappointed I've been in the community. Combine this with the response of the developers to steadily remove challenges and I feel dispirited. What's the solution here when the staff remove goals? For me not to spend time on FR? With how this was released, the staff are effectively picking one subset of users and what makes the game fun for them over another. And that's great....if you're the one being picked. I'm not anti-update and I'm not demanding to be pandered to. This is a discussion forum and largely a vent-fest. If I wanted to be pandered to, I'd go to the suggestions forum and make a thread about Eyepocolypse 2.0 and demand they change things back. Largely, I've stayed away from the suggestions forum and have been using this one to vent. [/quote] Thank you for articulating this so clearly! This is more or less where I am as well; as a player who's been here for a while, there are less and less challenges available that money can't solve. I should add that I don't have particularly strong feelings about the eye issue itself one way or the other; I'm glad many people seem happy with it. Its not likely something I'll spend much money on personally since, the challenge for me was hatching some rare eyes and... it still is. I'm holding out hope that some moderate/long term challenges, or at least non-treasure accumulation challenges will be implemented again soon BUT I do fear that user retention is less important than userbase growth.