Flight Rising Discussion

[quote name="Avarice" date="2021-05-08 21:17:46" ] It's genuinely hilarious that some people seem to think voluntarily refusing to use a freely accessible item to try and replicate what was before a genuine challenge somehow is still equally fun. I don't think you have the slightest idea what people were getting out of that challenge before. Which is fine, obviously it never appealed to you in the same way, but your "nothing is forcing you to use the vials" comments, as if that's meant to fix the issue, are condescending. Like, I'd love to meet the person that has decided it's a fun challenge to never buy a gene for their dragons; who has voluntarily decided to exalt otherwise perfect dragons rather than buy the gene that would make one with the colours they were after their ideal dragon. That's the same idea as just not using the vials now; there is nothing inherently fun about the difficulty, it was playing with the limitations of the mechanics people enjoyed. [/quote] There [i]are[/i] people who do challenges like that, though. Nuzlockes are popular for a reason. I've seen some really interesting and creative things along those lines, that involve all kinds of self limitations. Maybe that's not for you, but it's still a valid suggestion.

[quote name="000000" date="2021-05-08 21:41:30" ] There [i]are[/i] people who do challenges like that, though. Nuzlockes are popular for a reason. I've seen some really interesting and creative things along those lines, that involve all kinds of self limitations. Maybe that's not for you, but it's still a valid suggestion. [/quote] Very true, tho you have to remember that while market value and personal value ar different things sometimes one can influence the other. Let's say someone hatches a triple bubblegum G1, they didn't really cared about G1's or even the pink range but they know that this dragon is so special it could go for a fortune on an auction. This strike of luck may lead them to keep and cherish said dragon. The reasons were initially influenced by the general tendencies of the market but they developed into a personal attachment. If a G1 triple wasn't such a big deal maybe that person wouldn't have thought much about it and promptly sold or exhalted that dragon. Personally the vials existance doesn't affect me as my long-term goals revolve around my Clan's lore development but to me it is sad to see that some people were so mad about the previous eye update that they just can't comprehend why some were fine with it and even preferred it. Let the people mourn a mechanic that they found exciting/profitable/fun.

Basically there's a difference between internally and externally motivated players. The players that say things like "just make a personal challenge" don't understand the needs of the externally motivated player.

From the perspective of someone externally motivated, they may think 'well why would I do a challenge for no reason? Now my g1 primal is worth a tiny fraction of what it used to be, and why would I continue what I used to do (say, hatching eggs) when there's easier ways to do it. My gameplay lost meaning.' Working within the confines of the old system was what made it fun for those kinds of players. The old system gave primals a lot more rarity and it's a sort of rarity that was easily understood by everyone playing the game. I think this kind of need to be validated externally is what made the accusations of 'elitism' fly around. The internally motivated players, I think, are the kind of players who don't understand why others don't like a dragon 'for what it is', aka 'if you truly loved this dragon, why are you upset it lost value'. But since these dragons are pixels, it's not wrong to value them mostly or only for stonks or rarity.

It also ties back into what others have brought up as 'customization' vs 'challenge' kind of players. The 'customization' people are just happy they can change their dragons eyes to primal much more easily now. I think those players are usually internally driven; they might think well, maybe I sunk a lot of money into my old g1 primals, but I still like them and I'm stoked I get to primal eye my other dragons too. I think the 'challenge' people are more externally driven and prefer 'site imposed challenges' over 'personal challenges'. So those who decided to get into primal eyes because they liked the challenge of it, or the rarity, or the expense have basically lost that reason to like primals anymore.

[quote name="Toska" date="2021-05-08 22:15:55" ] Basically there's a difference between internally and externally motivated players. The players that say things like "just make a personal challenge" don't understand the needs of the externally motivated player. From the perspective of someone externally motivated, they may think 'well why would I do a challenge for no reason? Now my g1 primal is worth a tiny fraction of what it used to be, and why would I continue what I used to do (say, hatching eggs) when there's easier ways to do it. My gameplay lost meaning.' Working within the confines of the old system was what made it fun for those kinds of players. The old system gave primals a lot more rarity and it's a sort of rarity that was easily understood by everyone playing the game. I think this kind of need to be validated externally is what made the accusations of 'elitism' fly around. The internally motivated players, I think, are the kind of players who don't understand why others don't like a dragon 'for what it is', aka 'if you truly loved this dragon, why are you upset it lost value'. But since these dragons are pixels, it's not wrong to value them mostly or only for stonks or rarity. It also ties back into what others have brought up as 'customization' vs 'challenge' kind of players. The 'customization' people are just happy they can change their dragons eyes to primal much more easily now. I think those players are usually internally driven; they might think well, maybe I sunk a lot of money into my old g1 primals, but I still like them and I'm stoked I get to primal eye my other dragons too. I think the 'challenge' people are more externally driven and prefer 'site imposed challenges' over 'personal challenges'. So those who decided to get into primal eyes because they liked the challenge of it, or the rarity, or the expense have basically lost that reason to like primals anymore. [/quote] Yeah, what you said. I like the challenge, and I never scry my dragons with eye types that was near impossible to be reached before the update was made, and I don't even have dream dragons

[quote name="Toska" date="2021-05-08 19:00:53" ] [...] Stop presuming things for the whole userbase. I've been here since day one of the site, you don't speak for me. [...] I think if anything, most people are now saying staff should have just reversed their decision 3 years earlier, which is the opposite of what you're implying. And stop glossing over that people genuinely lost a lot of gems over this change, where as nobody lost any money over the initial eye change. [...][/quote] It's not presuming things for the whole userbase, and since you think being here since day one makes a difference, so have I. If you think it doesn't apply to some people, you're also acknowledging that it [i]does[/i] apply to some people. Not once did I say it applies to every single player. I said it applies to long-time players. It applies to users that had been around for the 5 years before the eye changes became a thing. That in no way is saying it applies to [b]every single one[/b] of them. It means "this is the group it affected the most." I didn't realize that people thought the staff were time-travelers, telling them they should have done this 3 years ago. Sure it was a mistake that should have been changed from day one, but it wasn't. What now? They can only move forward and here they are trying to move forward, yet people come out saying this was a mistake. So which is it? They made a mistake to not do this and now they made a mistake [i]to[/i] do it. It's funny that you think I'm not in the pool of people that lost out because of this change. [quote name="Celinikal" date="2021-05-08 21:08:36" ]I'm not going to do a challenge when I can play G&G and just buy the eyes. [...] As someone who enjoys collecting things, finding a natural primal now is impossible. For all I know, the seller just slapped an eye vial on a G1. How would I know? This kills the collection fun. If you want to be happy about the update, fine. But you're the one posting that people have 'no reason to think the update was bad' in a thread that is literally filled with people unhappy about the update. [/quote] That's understandable and I get that, I understand why people want a way to officially have their dragons marked as natural or not, but I also realize how badly a turn that could make things take. People already harass others for their raffle dragons, and likely harass people for their primal g1 hatches, so having markers would just help those kinds of people to target them even more. Of course there's blocking and all but at some point it just gets exhausting and people would rather just leave or give up their dragon than be steadfast. However, I did not say that people have no reason. I stated that this change is not a reason to [b]demand Imperial scrolls be brought back[/b], and that if people think it's bad solely for its use then I am asking do they think it's appropriate to expect people to replace dragons they spent how many years and how many thousands of gems to get to.