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TOPIC | Coli Captcha hates the visually impaired
[quote name="@Anite" date="2022-08-14 12:31:52" ] I understand the concern, but I have to stress that the captcha was implemented to fix a problem that didn't actually exist. [/quote] Nope there is the problem. Bots do ruin the game experience for players and at worse they can end up over-stressing the FR server too. I agree the current coliseum captcha is inaccessible but it is like saying "we should not exist because there are a few bad people", it should be replaced by an alternative but removing it entirely will cause worse.
@Anite wrote on 2022-08-14 12:31:52:
I understand the concern, but I have to stress that the captcha was implemented to fix a problem that didn't actually exist.
Nope there is the problem. Bots do ruin the game experience for players and at worse they can end up over-stressing the FR server too. I agree the current coliseum captcha is inaccessible but it is like saying "we should not exist because there are a few bad people", it should be replaced by an alternative but removing it entirely will cause worse.
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@WindFox [quote name="WindFox" date="2022-08-14 05:47:11" ] Alright so [quote] 1. Use a math problem humans can easily do in their head, while programm wouldn't be able to, because the math problem is an image and not text.[/quote] Possible to bypass by a lightweight AI program. [quote]2. Have 2 or 3 dragons with distinct features and a question alongside it, like "Which dragon is red?" The dragons and the question are all images and not actual text.[/quote] It could still be a pain for color blind people. [quote] 3. Remove the busy background that is right now.[/quote] Some folks say it would make it easy to bypassed by bots but it can be prevented already by dragon images having apparel on. So imo it would be a good idea. [quote]4. Have an unfinished puzzle and the user needs to move the puzzle piece to its correct position.[/quote] Is not it the captcha system Genshin Impact uses? I'd like this idea but some have reported to have issues with this. [quote]There are different ways of approaching this situation, but it just needs to be done. And as I have heard, this is an ongoing issue and from what I see Flight Rising Team is not taking any actions against it to support people and fix this awful accessibility issue.[/quote] Could be because it is kept to be redone during a coliseum rewamp which I doubt will happen in near future. [/quote] 1. This can be said on any Captcha, just add some AI, later even a smarter AI, and so on, to try to bypass the Captcha. 2. While true if used with certain colours, but there are certainly more ways that just colours, like "Which one has stripes?" or "Which one is a Nocturne?" and so on. 3. Specifically the part you said about it being bypassable with a bot, this is something you can apply to any captcha (see point 1). Developers will find a way. 4. Do you happen to know what kind of issues? Issues I can think of from the top of my head are: [LIST] [*] Motoric Issues, since you need to drag and drop the puzzle piece. [*] The Captcha being implemented incorrectly and the puzzle piece is not draggable. Which would be an issues on the code's side, not the end user. [*] The Captcha being suuuuper sensitive and not allowing a correct position, because it is off by 3 pixel. Again a point where the implementation is the issue, not the end user. [/LIST] I really have no idea how big the team of Flight Rising and what they are trying to improve on the site and what they're working on. From my point of view this website could use a rehaul, it still uses jQuery which is loooong overdue to be removed by proper and modern JavaScript. And all those refreshes, that's really not needed in today's time, there are tools to make it better. I understand this website is built with PHP, so rewriting everything with a JavaScript Framework would take an insane amount of time. But that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Just that code wise there could be many improvements. Having a Captcha to prevent bots? Fine. But it is inaccessible, to people that have no visual problems. I have pretty good eyes and can distinguish colours good, but the captcha is small, the colours are way too close to each other, there is too much going on, making it very busy looking. https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/3160912 Here is another thread complaining about it. I wish the Flight Rising Team would acknowledge this as a legitimate issue and work on it to fix it.
@WindFox
WindFox wrote on 2022-08-14 05:47:11:
Alright so
Quote:
1. Use a math problem humans can easily do in their head, while programm wouldn't be able to, because the math problem is an image and not text.
Possible to bypass by a lightweight AI program.
Quote:
2. Have 2 or 3 dragons with distinct features and a question alongside it, like "Which dragon is red?" The dragons and the question are all images and not actual text.
It could still be a pain for color blind people.
Quote:
3. Remove the busy background that is right now.
Some folks say it would make it easy to bypassed by bots but it can be prevented already by dragon images having apparel on. So imo it would be a good idea.
Quote:
4. Have an unfinished puzzle and the user needs to move the puzzle piece to its correct position.
Is not it the captcha system Genshin Impact uses? I'd like this idea but some have reported to have issues with this.
Quote:
There are different ways of approaching this situation, but it just needs to be done. And as I have heard, this is an ongoing issue and from what I see Flight Rising Team is not taking any actions against it to support people and fix this awful accessibility issue.
Could be because it is kept to be redone during a coliseum rewamp which I doubt will happen in near future.

1. This can be said on any Captcha, just add some AI, later even a smarter AI, and so on, to try to bypass the Captcha.
2. While true if used with certain colours, but there are certainly more ways that just colours, like "Which one has stripes?" or "Which one is a Nocturne?" and so on.
3. Specifically the part you said about it being bypassable with a bot, this is something you can apply to any captcha (see point 1). Developers will find a way.
4. Do you happen to know what kind of issues? Issues I can think of from the top of my head are:
  • Motoric Issues, since you need to drag and drop the puzzle piece.
  • The Captcha being implemented incorrectly and the puzzle piece is not draggable. Which would be an issues on the code's side, not the end user.
  • The Captcha being suuuuper sensitive and not allowing a correct position, because it is off by 3 pixel. Again a point where the implementation is the issue, not the end user.

I really have no idea how big the team of Flight Rising and what they are trying to improve on the site and what they're working on.

From my point of view this website could use a rehaul, it still uses jQuery which is loooong overdue to be removed by proper and modern JavaScript. And all those refreshes, that's really not needed in today's time, there are tools to make it better. I understand this website is built with PHP, so rewriting everything with a JavaScript Framework would take an insane amount of time. But that has nothing to do with the issue at hand. Just that code wise there could be many improvements.

Having a Captcha to prevent bots? Fine. But it is inaccessible, to people that have no visual problems. I have pretty good eyes and can distinguish colours good, but the captcha is small, the colours are way too close to each other, there is too much going on, making it very busy looking.

https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/sug/3160912

Here is another thread complaining about it. I wish the Flight Rising Team would acknowledge this as a legitimate issue and work on it to fix it.
@Antimoany Thank you, I should have done more research on it, I wasn't aware that it will throw image captcha, if some behvaiour is supsicious. I should have known better, it also makes sense that it does that, now that I think about it.

I also agree with your statement:
Quote:
captchas, as a concept, are inherently inaccessible

the only way to make things accessible are to not have captchas of any kind at all

But I also understand the need for Captchas. While Capcthas as a whole are innaccessible to some, there are captchas that are more accessioble than others.
@Antimoany Thank you, I should have done more research on it, I wasn't aware that it will throw image captcha, if some behvaiour is supsicious. I should have known better, it also makes sense that it does that, now that I think about it.

I also agree with your statement:
Quote:
captchas, as a concept, are inherently inaccessible

the only way to make things accessible are to not have captchas of any kind at all

But I also understand the need for Captchas. While Capcthas as a whole are innaccessible to some, there are captchas that are more accessioble than others.
Another possibility, if the capcha gets removed entirely, to put a cap on the amount of coliseum time users do per day (or amount of items they receive)

But to be honest, I don’t think there’s a one single capcha option that will be accessible to everyone. Everyone has different needs. That’s why I like the idea of multiple capchas being available that a user can choose from in their settings
Another possibility, if the capcha gets removed entirely, to put a cap on the amount of coliseum time users do per day (or amount of items they receive)

But to be honest, I don’t think there’s a one single capcha option that will be accessible to everyone. Everyone has different needs. That’s why I like the idea of multiple capchas being available that a user can choose from in their settings
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PLEASE fix the dang captcha already !!

Simply making it easier to see would be a HUGE improvement. Even on a large monitor the images are hard to see and extremely low-res and blurry.

Upping the quality of the images so that they scale correctly when the captcha pops up would be amazing!

I love the idea of lower contrast backgrounds, or at least only showing naked dragons without the clutter of 100 accessories.

An option for an alternative captcha for those with disabilities would be nice as well. Something to click on for a different type of captcha (such as list the letters/numbers, and/or an audio captcha).

I don't understand why this seems to be such a low priority for the devs when it's been an ongoing issue for so long and especially when Coli is such a huge part of the game =/
PLEASE fix the dang captcha already !!

Simply making it easier to see would be a HUGE improvement. Even on a large monitor the images are hard to see and extremely low-res and blurry.

Upping the quality of the images so that they scale correctly when the captcha pops up would be amazing!

I love the idea of lower contrast backgrounds, or at least only showing naked dragons without the clutter of 100 accessories.

An option for an alternative captcha for those with disabilities would be nice as well. Something to click on for a different type of captcha (such as list the letters/numbers, and/or an audio captcha).

I don't understand why this seems to be such a low priority for the devs when it's been an ongoing issue for so long and especially when Coli is such a huge part of the game =/
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hello, i wanted to bring this abomination to attention. this might be the worst captcha i've EVER seen. people keep saying coli hates visually impaired but honestly? coli hates everyone. it's on the verge of being impossible. this needs some kind of anti-award. (it's not mine, [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/3164012]it's from this thread[/url]) [img]https://i.postimg.cc/3wnJ0v56/uhwhere.jpg[/img] ((if you need help, it's a female gaoler in the left bottom corner))
hello, i wanted to bring this abomination to attention. this might be the worst captcha i've EVER seen. people keep saying coli hates visually impaired but honestly? coli hates everyone. it's on the verge of being impossible. this needs some kind of anti-award.

(it's not mine, it's from this thread)
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((if you need help, it's a female gaoler in the left bottom corner))
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YES PLEASE oh my god I'm not visually impaired but I can't see it and I just got locked out for it for the first time :( I can't imagine how awful it is for low-vis and visually impaired people
YES PLEASE oh my god I'm not visually impaired but I can't see it and I just got locked out for it for the first time :( I can't imagine how awful it is for low-vis and visually impaired people
I wish they would do something about this. I am visually impared enough that I have to play on 133% zoomed in, its unfair that I am effectively unable to play the coli because of my vision.
I wish they would do something about this. I am visually impared enough that I have to play on 133% zoomed in, its unfair that I am effectively unable to play the coli because of my vision.
@Wolin

This thread predates the staff announcing that a fix for the captcha is in the works. It's just taking time because they want to make something that actually works for the intended purpose without actually having unintended consequences.

Before the captcha was put in there was a huge problem with bots in the coli (like horrifyingly huge to the point where it was hurting the site and its players in so many ways). No one wants to go back to that, nor does anyone want a new captcha system introduced that is better for some players while worse for others in new and unexpected ways.

EDIT: Part of what the staff mentioned in that announcement was that the most dragon shaped familiars would no longer be included in the image set, as well as other measures being taken to make sure that the captcha wold be overall more readable while still preventing botting, which goes to show how complex the matter is as well as the degree of care the staff is trying to take.
@Wolin

This thread predates the staff announcing that a fix for the captcha is in the works. It's just taking time because they want to make something that actually works for the intended purpose without actually having unintended consequences.

Before the captcha was put in there was a huge problem with bots in the coli (like horrifyingly huge to the point where it was hurting the site and its players in so many ways). No one wants to go back to that, nor does anyone want a new captcha system introduced that is better for some players while worse for others in new and unexpected ways.

EDIT: Part of what the staff mentioned in that announcement was that the most dragon shaped familiars would no longer be included in the image set, as well as other measures being taken to make sure that the captcha wold be overall more readable while still preventing botting, which goes to show how complex the matter is as well as the degree of care the staff is trying to take.
@Teeka
I must have missed the announcement, I had no idea. I'm glad something is being done about it
@Teeka
I must have missed the announcement, I had no idea. I'm glad something is being done about it