Suggestions
Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Stronger watch on Suggestions etiquette.
Well I must say I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the problems that exist here. And true, I'm sure they do extend beyond the suggestions forum. I haven't seen it too much elsewhere, but I guess its expected to be pretty concentrated in a place like this where one is encouraged to throw ideas and opinions around.
I'm not necessarily going for a "Mods are constantly watching you" thing, but just a bit more of a step up from what it is. Definitely at least one mod in each flight, and a few extras to watch the common forums. I think that would definitely go a long way.
Warnings are effective in some cases, but I think I'd like to see a little more of an action taken in the cases where things get really out of hand. Not for every little offense of course, but when a thread is derailed and devolved into nothing more than aggression and bitter responses, I think that's the time where some type of punishment should be given out if the warning is ignored, as it unfortunately often is. Warnings that don't go anywhere if ignored aren't giving the right incentive for people to stop and listen.
I'm not necessarily going for a "Mods are constantly watching you" thing, but just a bit more of a step up from what it is. Definitely at least one mod in each flight, and a few extras to watch the common forums. I think that would definitely go a long way.
Warnings are effective in some cases, but I think I'd like to see a little more of an action taken in the cases where things get really out of hand. Not for every little offense of course, but when a thread is derailed and devolved into nothing more than aggression and bitter responses, I think that's the time where some type of punishment should be given out if the warning is ignored, as it unfortunately often is. Warnings that don't go anywhere if ignored aren't giving the right incentive for people to stop and listen.
Well I must say I'm glad I'm not the only one seeing the problems that exist here. And true, I'm sure they do extend beyond the suggestions forum. I haven't seen it too much elsewhere, but I guess its expected to be pretty concentrated in a place like this where one is encouraged to throw ideas and opinions around.
I'm not necessarily going for a "Mods are constantly watching you" thing, but just a bit more of a step up from what it is. Definitely at least one mod in each flight, and a few extras to watch the common forums. I think that would definitely go a long way.
Warnings are effective in some cases, but I think I'd like to see a little more of an action taken in the cases where things get really out of hand. Not for every little offense of course, but when a thread is derailed and devolved into nothing more than aggression and bitter responses, I think that's the time where some type of punishment should be given out if the warning is ignored, as it unfortunately often is. Warnings that don't go anywhere if ignored aren't giving the right incentive for people to stop and listen.
I'm not necessarily going for a "Mods are constantly watching you" thing, but just a bit more of a step up from what it is. Definitely at least one mod in each flight, and a few extras to watch the common forums. I think that would definitely go a long way.
Warnings are effective in some cases, but I think I'd like to see a little more of an action taken in the cases where things get really out of hand. Not for every little offense of course, but when a thread is derailed and devolved into nothing more than aggression and bitter responses, I think that's the time where some type of punishment should be given out if the warning is ignored, as it unfortunately often is. Warnings that don't go anywhere if ignored aren't giving the right incentive for people to stop and listen.
I deeply agree that this forum needs some better-enforced etiquette one way or another. I think part of it is that it seems perfectly acceptable to some to simply say "No support" without politely explaining their reason, or maybe because when they don't share support, people tend to shoot things down harshly, with things like "Takes too long to code." "Fix coli first." or things like that, as opposed to something like "I think that would be a bit difficult to code, but maybe if you did it this other way..." or suggesting "I'm not sure of a better way to do this, but I think it might make some problems with code because of XYZ reasons, but the idea itself isn't bad." or something along those lines.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
I deeply agree that this forum needs some better-enforced etiquette one way or another. I think part of it is that it seems perfectly acceptable to some to simply say "No support" without politely explaining their reason, or maybe because when they don't share support, people tend to shoot things down harshly, with things like "Takes too long to code." "Fix coli first." or things like that, as opposed to something like "I think that would be a bit difficult to code, but maybe if you did it this other way..." or suggesting "I'm not sure of a better way to do this, but I think it might make some problems with code because of XYZ reasons, but the idea itself isn't bad." or something along those lines.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
Returning after a long hiatus, a lot has changed!
Please be patient while I get used to things again :)
Please be patient while I get used to things again :)
Support but there is a problem with that. What I find rude, someone else might not and visa versa. I, for one, have a low tolerance for someone being intentionally stupid and have no issues calling them out on it. Do I care if it hurts their feelings? Not really, someone was bound to open their mouth to them sooner or later- and if not, they should have.
You can't really justify tone in text, no matter how fancy you make the font.
You can't really justify tone in text, no matter how fancy you make the font.
Support but there is a problem with that. What I find rude, someone else might not and visa versa. I, for one, have a low tolerance for someone being intentionally stupid and have no issues calling them out on it. Do I care if it hurts their feelings? Not really, someone was bound to open their mouth to them sooner or later- and if not, they should have.
You can't really justify tone in text, no matter how fancy you make the font.
You can't really justify tone in text, no matter how fancy you make the font.
Support 100%.
And @rayen, I agree with you, to an extent. You have every right to disagree with someone whether they're being intentionally stupid or not, but regardless, there's always a way to say something without being intentionally rude or cold. Although you're correct in the way that you can't justify tone, there are definitely ways to phrase things that make them less likely to offend someone.
And @rayen, I agree with you, to an extent. You have every right to disagree with someone whether they're being intentionally stupid or not, but regardless, there's always a way to say something without being intentionally rude or cold. Although you're correct in the way that you can't justify tone, there are definitely ways to phrase things that make them less likely to offend someone.
Support 100%.
And @rayen, I agree with you, to an extent. You have every right to disagree with someone whether they're being intentionally stupid or not, but regardless, there's always a way to say something without being intentionally rude or cold. Although you're correct in the way that you can't justify tone, there are definitely ways to phrase things that make them less likely to offend someone.
And @rayen, I agree with you, to an extent. You have every right to disagree with someone whether they're being intentionally stupid or not, but regardless, there's always a way to say something without being intentionally rude or cold. Although you're correct in the way that you can't justify tone, there are definitely ways to phrase things that make them less likely to offend someone.
[quote name="Jad" date="2014-08-09 12:16:06"]@PopteenPrincess
I think we need to be really careful with how much we want our fellow members to police each other. It opens the door for a lot of subjectivity on what qualifies as an 'unkind' response and what's just someone being more straightforward than another person would like. People have varying limits to what they find tolerable and trying to apply them interpersonally is going to lead to A LOT of problems.
ex: ive seen someone call another person very rude over a reply but when i scrolled to find it I, me personally, found it to be dry and efficient but not rude, you know? Who's standard gets applied in that case and is it the same standard as the next time?
Overall support for a little more modding in here though.
.[/quote]
This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. What constitutes rudeness to some might not to someone else. While I do think the mods could stand to step in a bit more, I'd also like for people to not have to walk on eggshells because someone is going to cry 'rude,' whether rudeness was the intent of the post or not.
Jad wrote on 2014-08-09 12:16:06:
@PopteenPrincess
I think we need to be really careful with how much we want our fellow members to police each other. It opens the door for a lot of subjectivity on what qualifies as an 'unkind' response and what's just someone being more straightforward than another person would like. People have varying limits to what they find tolerable and trying to apply them interpersonally is going to lead to A LOT of problems.
ex: ive seen someone call another person very rude over a reply but when i scrolled to find it I, me personally, found it to be dry and efficient but not rude, you know? Who's standard gets applied in that case and is it the same standard as the next time?
Overall support for a little more modding in here though.
.
I think we need to be really careful with how much we want our fellow members to police each other. It opens the door for a lot of subjectivity on what qualifies as an 'unkind' response and what's just someone being more straightforward than another person would like. People have varying limits to what they find tolerable and trying to apply them interpersonally is going to lead to A LOT of problems.
ex: ive seen someone call another person very rude over a reply but when i scrolled to find it I, me personally, found it to be dry and efficient but not rude, you know? Who's standard gets applied in that case and is it the same standard as the next time?
Overall support for a little more modding in here though.
.
This pretty much sums up how I feel about it. What constitutes rudeness to some might not to someone else. While I do think the mods could stand to step in a bit more, I'd also like for people to not have to walk on eggshells because someone is going to cry 'rude,' whether rudeness was the intent of the post or not.
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[quote name="Butzefrau" date="2014-08-09 19:34:12"]I deeply agree that this forum needs some better-enforced etiquette one way or another. I think part of it is that it seems perfectly acceptable to some to simply say "No support" without politely explaining their reason, or maybe because when they don't share support, people tend to shoot things down harshly, with things like "Takes too long to code." "Fix coli first." or things like that, as opposed to something like "I think that would be a bit difficult to code, but maybe if you did it this other way..." or suggesting "I'm not sure of a better way to do this, but I think it might make some problems with code because of XYZ reasons, but the idea itself isn't bad." or something along those lines.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.[/quote]Support for completely irrelevant responses to be banned ("I'd rather they fix X," "it'd be hard to code"), but not No support. Until polling is added, those who don't want to or can't explain their actions shouldn't have to. Rude versions should be banned, though. ("No. Just no.") YMMV.
Overall: Support for more mod presence and asking users to give ideas a chance.
Butzefrau wrote on 2014-08-09 19:34:12:
I deeply agree that this forum needs some better-enforced etiquette one way or another. I think part of it is that it seems perfectly acceptable to some to simply say "No support" without politely explaining their reason, or maybe because when they don't share support, people tend to shoot things down harshly, with things like "Takes too long to code." "Fix coli first." or things like that, as opposed to something like "I think that would be a bit difficult to code, but maybe if you did it this other way..." or suggesting "I'm not sure of a better way to do this, but I think it might make some problems with code because of XYZ reasons, but the idea itself isn't bad." or something along those lines.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
I'm not sure that it's something the mods need to take responsibility for, but I've noticed a lot of sharpness to the interactions on this forum, which I find kind of odd. This is a place for suggestions to make the site better, after all. Nothing has to be done immediately, but eventually some things might be nice, so why not suggest now for a feature in the future?
I hope things lighten up in this particular forum, it's such an optimistic idea, it'd be nice to get back to optimistic socializing, too.
Overall: Support for more mod presence and asking users to give ideas a chance.
I do think some mod enforcement is needed...but I think there shouldn't be a lot of it tbh. Just more reminders of keeping things on topic and if people don't listen I think more action should be done. I don't want this to turn into another Neopets ; ^ ; It's pretty bad over there.
What is rude to me may not be rude to you, and vice versa. It's all subjective. Soooo, the idea of other users policing the forums is an awful idea. It would cause a lot of trouble. But I do agree people are sometimes a little hostile on these forums. I try not to be, but it slips, sometimes.
What is rude to me may not be rude to you, and vice versa. It's all subjective. Soooo, the idea of other users policing the forums is an awful idea. It would cause a lot of trouble. But I do agree people are sometimes a little hostile on these forums. I try not to be, but it slips, sometimes.
I do think some mod enforcement is needed...but I think there shouldn't be a lot of it tbh. Just more reminders of keeping things on topic and if people don't listen I think more action should be done. I don't want this to turn into another Neopets ; ^ ; It's pretty bad over there.
What is rude to me may not be rude to you, and vice versa. It's all subjective. Soooo, the idea of other users policing the forums is an awful idea. It would cause a lot of trouble. But I do agree people are sometimes a little hostile on these forums. I try not to be, but it slips, sometimes.
What is rude to me may not be rude to you, and vice versa. It's all subjective. Soooo, the idea of other users policing the forums is an awful idea. It would cause a lot of trouble. But I do agree people are sometimes a little hostile on these forums. I try not to be, but it slips, sometimes.
Granted, there is definitely going to be some things left to interpretation, especially when we're corresponding through text. Some things may be subjective.
Other things, however, are pretty obvious and I really think the mods and admins should be looking for those issues.
Example time!
If a player made a post saying:
"Let's reintroduce Imperial Breed Change Scrolls into the market place!"
It might ruffle someone's feathers if I came along and said:
"No support. This will never EVER happen. Imperial scrolls were a kickstarter item and the staff pretty much promised that they'd never be rereleased. People have suggested this SO many times before and it always gets shot down."
Granted, they may not like what I said. It was a little excessive and the caps can be read as a biting, but it wasn't insulting, just a little blunt.
Now suppose I said:
"LMAO! No! No support! Never! So stupid! This won't work for a million reasons! OMG, just no! You've been playing since January you should know better!"
I think this is insulting. You don't have to support their idea, but there's no reason to make a show out of how silly you think their suggestion was. There's also no reason for name calling and negative words to describe the person or the idea. You also shouldn't be allowed to judge someone's idea based on their account status (post count, account age, etc.).
Something like the second example should get at least a warning from a mod because there is no reason to call someone out like that.
We can argue subjectivity for days, but I think the staff DOES need to decide where the line is drawn and these forums DO need more attention. They shouldn't let everyone run amok and play mini-mod.
Edit:
Also, I think it's really bad that our only forum of "etiquette" is a sticky made by someone who's no longer an administrator: http://flightrising.com/main.php?board=sug&id=1911&p=mb
And it's not even that informative. AND people post "bad" suggestions anyway. Trash it. If we can't have an "Already Suggested List" or a "Don't Suggest List" then there's never going to be such thing as a "bad" idea since people don't know what things will never be implemented.
Other things, however, are pretty obvious and I really think the mods and admins should be looking for those issues.
Example time!
If a player made a post saying:
"Let's reintroduce Imperial Breed Change Scrolls into the market place!"
It might ruffle someone's feathers if I came along and said:
"No support. This will never EVER happen. Imperial scrolls were a kickstarter item and the staff pretty much promised that they'd never be rereleased. People have suggested this SO many times before and it always gets shot down."
Granted, they may not like what I said. It was a little excessive and the caps can be read as a biting, but it wasn't insulting, just a little blunt.
Now suppose I said:
"LMAO! No! No support! Never! So stupid! This won't work for a million reasons! OMG, just no! You've been playing since January you should know better!"
I think this is insulting. You don't have to support their idea, but there's no reason to make a show out of how silly you think their suggestion was. There's also no reason for name calling and negative words to describe the person or the idea. You also shouldn't be allowed to judge someone's idea based on their account status (post count, account age, etc.).
Something like the second example should get at least a warning from a mod because there is no reason to call someone out like that.
We can argue subjectivity for days, but I think the staff DOES need to decide where the line is drawn and these forums DO need more attention. They shouldn't let everyone run amok and play mini-mod.
Edit:
Also, I think it's really bad that our only forum of "etiquette" is a sticky made by someone who's no longer an administrator: http://flightrising.com/main.php?board=sug&id=1911&p=mb
And it's not even that informative. AND people post "bad" suggestions anyway. Trash it. If we can't have an "Already Suggested List" or a "Don't Suggest List" then there's never going to be such thing as a "bad" idea since people don't know what things will never be implemented.
Granted, there is definitely going to be some things left to interpretation, especially when we're corresponding through text. Some things may be subjective.
Other things, however, are pretty obvious and I really think the mods and admins should be looking for those issues.
Example time!
If a player made a post saying:
"Let's reintroduce Imperial Breed Change Scrolls into the market place!"
It might ruffle someone's feathers if I came along and said:
"No support. This will never EVER happen. Imperial scrolls were a kickstarter item and the staff pretty much promised that they'd never be rereleased. People have suggested this SO many times before and it always gets shot down."
Granted, they may not like what I said. It was a little excessive and the caps can be read as a biting, but it wasn't insulting, just a little blunt.
Now suppose I said:
"LMAO! No! No support! Never! So stupid! This won't work for a million reasons! OMG, just no! You've been playing since January you should know better!"
I think this is insulting. You don't have to support their idea, but there's no reason to make a show out of how silly you think their suggestion was. There's also no reason for name calling and negative words to describe the person or the idea. You also shouldn't be allowed to judge someone's idea based on their account status (post count, account age, etc.).
Something like the second example should get at least a warning from a mod because there is no reason to call someone out like that.
We can argue subjectivity for days, but I think the staff DOES need to decide where the line is drawn and these forums DO need more attention. They shouldn't let everyone run amok and play mini-mod.
Edit:
Also, I think it's really bad that our only forum of "etiquette" is a sticky made by someone who's no longer an administrator: http://flightrising.com/main.php?board=sug&id=1911&p=mb
And it's not even that informative. AND people post "bad" suggestions anyway. Trash it. If we can't have an "Already Suggested List" or a "Don't Suggest List" then there's never going to be such thing as a "bad" idea since people don't know what things will never be implemented.
Other things, however, are pretty obvious and I really think the mods and admins should be looking for those issues.
Example time!
If a player made a post saying:
"Let's reintroduce Imperial Breed Change Scrolls into the market place!"
It might ruffle someone's feathers if I came along and said:
"No support. This will never EVER happen. Imperial scrolls were a kickstarter item and the staff pretty much promised that they'd never be rereleased. People have suggested this SO many times before and it always gets shot down."
Granted, they may not like what I said. It was a little excessive and the caps can be read as a biting, but it wasn't insulting, just a little blunt.
Now suppose I said:
"LMAO! No! No support! Never! So stupid! This won't work for a million reasons! OMG, just no! You've been playing since January you should know better!"
I think this is insulting. You don't have to support their idea, but there's no reason to make a show out of how silly you think their suggestion was. There's also no reason for name calling and negative words to describe the person or the idea. You also shouldn't be allowed to judge someone's idea based on their account status (post count, account age, etc.).
Something like the second example should get at least a warning from a mod because there is no reason to call someone out like that.
We can argue subjectivity for days, but I think the staff DOES need to decide where the line is drawn and these forums DO need more attention. They shouldn't let everyone run amok and play mini-mod.
Edit:
Also, I think it's really bad that our only forum of "etiquette" is a sticky made by someone who's no longer an administrator: http://flightrising.com/main.php?board=sug&id=1911&p=mb
And it's not even that informative. AND people post "bad" suggestions anyway. Trash it. If we can't have an "Already Suggested List" or a "Don't Suggest List" then there's never going to be such thing as a "bad" idea since people don't know what things will never be implemented.
