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Flight Rising Discussion

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TOPIC | Something about Ancients
Hot take but I think the novelty of Ancient breeds and their line breaking genes has worn out, and I don’t think it makes up for them not being to wear apparel at all or breed with Modern dragons or even other Ancients. [center]• • • [b]BODY PLANS[/b] • • •[/center] [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_dusthide.png[/img] [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_gaoler.png[/img] [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_sandsurge.png[/img] [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/veilspun_dragons.png[/img] Dusthides, Gaolers, Sandsurges, and Veilspun all have the same body layout as Modern breeds. They have a head, neck, two wings, two arms, two legs, and a tail to accommodate any existing apparel pieces without getting too creative. [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_aberration.png[/img] [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_aether.png[/img] Abberations and Aethers have additional body parts compared to Modern breeds - Abberations have two heads and two tails, and Aethers have four wings and four arms - but they don't differ much in terms of placement and you can reasonably imagine how they'd wear normal clothes. In cases where there's extra parts where apparel could go, just put it on both. "But what if I don't want it on both?" Well, I'm sure someone has wanted one of their dragons to only wear one glove or boot, but that isn't possible either, so I see that as a moot point. Carrying on- [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_banescale.png[/img] Banescales don't have arms, but they do have wings in the place where their arms should be. You could argue that this would cause problems with arm vs. wing apparel, but it wouldn't be too hard to think just a little creatively to solve the problem. My vote is to treat the wrist joint of the wings as their hand and call it a day. [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_auraboa.png[/img] Auraboas don't have legs and have two pairs of arms in different locations on their bodies. I've addressed duplicate parts before, but the lack of legs is hard to deal with. I can tolerate them not being able to wear apparel out of fairness, but someone on Tumblr said it'd be funny if you gave them leg apparel and it showed up next to them in a neatly folded pile. That gets points for funny. [img]https://flightrising.com/images/wiki/breed_undertide.png[/img] Finally, Undertides. They lack arms and legs entirely, which I can also tolerate them not being able to wear apparel. That's fine. I'll live. [center]• • • [b]LINE-BREAKING TERTS[/b] • • •[/center] "But the special terts would mess up how apparel looks!" I hear you. I understand. But I will counter with three words: [i]Make them apparel.[/i] [i]"But-!"[/i] Hold your horses! Let's take a look at something real quick. You know [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/game-database/item/51810]Augment[/url]? That one line-breaking gene for Abberations, Dusthides, and Sandsurges? Take a good look at it, then look at the forum announcement [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/ann/3314056]Augmented Apparel[/url]. Notice how we have a cyborg-looking Ancient tert and a cyborg-looking apparel set. Why can't this just be done with the rest of the line-breaking terts? Just make them apparel. "But there wouldn't be enough colors!" You're definitely right, there wouldn't be the same variety in colors as there are with tertiary genes, and that might suck a little, but would you rather have baked in add-ons with terts, or be able to mix and match stuff with apparel? You could have an Abberation with Augment, Polypore, [i]and[/i] Riot if you wanted to, because it'd be apparel! You could just layer it on there! "But the layering would be weird!" How many pieces of apparel on this site already layer weird? Some things just aren't gonna layer right, and we've accepted that. It's just part of the game. That and a lot of the recent Ancient gene additions have been repeats of things older Ancients already had on another Ancient breed or the holiday ones which amount to little more than flowerfalls / halos / any number of "this sure is an image on top of a dragon" apparel with little to no bearing on the dragon itself, particularly [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/game-database/item/50991]Brightshine[/url] and [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/game-database/item/53346]Rockbreaker[/url]. And now with the addition of an Earth ancient after the Earth holiday gene has been released... How are Dusthides going to get it if they're supposed to be [i]the[/i] Earth dragons? If this was apparel, it could applied retroactively, but now it's seemingly not available to them at all. [center]• • • [b]BREEDING[/b] • • •[/center] Ancient breeds can't breed with Modern dragons [i]or[/i] Ancients of other types. If you have an Aether, a Tundra, and an Undertide, they can't breed with each other in any configuration. You could argue this is because not all Ancients share genes with other breeds, but they've been making parallel genes anyway. If Ancient A breeds with Ancient B and ends up making Baby A with an exclusive Ancient B gene, just... Default to Ancient A's gene or make it turn into Basic. It's not very complicated and it'd only allow more freedom. [center]• • • [b]IN CONCLUSION[/b] • • •[/center] I respect the FR team a whole lot. As good as the Ancient breeds sounded, getting more dragons in less time with cool tertiary genes with the tradeoff being no apparel, I don't think it paid off the way they expected it to, and it's becoming sort of [i]meh[/i] whenever they release a new Ancient. I would much prefer to wait a longer period of time for more Modern breeds with all the apparel at their disposal (considering that's half the game) and Ancient breeds with more creative themes than a new Ancient every so often more frequently that has potential but misses the mark on execution. I don't expect them to change anything. They probably won't, and even if they did, I don't expect them to complete that backlog for all the current Ancients. I just love this site and the art and it's one of those things where I criticize it because I just [i]know[/i] they can do better. I can wait for greatness and would prefer to do that than sit through a somewhat steady stream of okay additions. What's the point of a breeding and dress up game if all these new dragons can't breed with 90% of the other dragons and can't be dressed up? You're left with, like... 1/4th of a game there at best.
Hot take but I think the novelty of Ancient breeds and their line breaking genes has worn out, and I don’t think it makes up for them not being to wear apparel at all or breed with Modern dragons or even other Ancients.

• • • BODY PLANS • • •
breed_dusthide.png
breed_gaoler.png
breed_sandsurge.png
veilspun_dragons.png

Dusthides, Gaolers, Sandsurges, and Veilspun all have the same body layout as Modern breeds. They have a head, neck, two wings, two arms, two legs, and a tail to accommodate any existing apparel pieces without getting too creative.

breed_aberration.png
breed_aether.png

Abberations and Aethers have additional body parts compared to Modern breeds - Abberations have two heads and two tails, and Aethers have four wings and four arms - but they don't differ much in terms of placement and you can reasonably imagine how they'd wear normal clothes. In cases where there's extra parts where apparel could go, just put it on both.

"But what if I don't want it on both?"
Well, I'm sure someone has wanted one of their dragons to only wear one glove or boot, but that isn't possible either, so I see that as a moot point. Carrying on-

breed_banescale.png

Banescales don't have arms, but they do have wings in the place where their arms should be. You could argue that this would cause problems with arm vs. wing apparel, but it wouldn't be too hard to think just a little creatively to solve the problem. My vote is to treat the wrist joint of the wings as their hand and call it a day.

breed_auraboa.png

Auraboas don't have legs and have two pairs of arms in different locations on their bodies. I've addressed duplicate parts before, but the lack of legs is hard to deal with. I can tolerate them not being able to wear apparel out of fairness, but someone on Tumblr said it'd be funny if you gave them leg apparel and it showed up next to them in a neatly folded pile. That gets points for funny.

breed_undertide.png

Finally, Undertides. They lack arms and legs entirely, which I can also tolerate them not being able to wear apparel. That's fine. I'll live.

• • • LINE-BREAKING TERTS • • •
"But the special terts would mess up how apparel looks!"
I hear you. I understand. But I will counter with three words: Make them apparel.

"But-!"
Hold your horses! Let's take a look at something real quick.

You know Augment? That one line-breaking gene for Abberations, Dusthides, and Sandsurges?

Take a good look at it, then look at the forum announcement Augmented Apparel.

Notice how we have a cyborg-looking Ancient tert and a cyborg-looking apparel set. Why can't this just be done with the rest of the line-breaking terts?

Just make them apparel.

"But there wouldn't be enough colors!"
You're definitely right, there wouldn't be the same variety in colors as there are with tertiary genes, and that might suck a little, but would you rather have baked in add-ons with terts, or be able to mix and match stuff with apparel? You could have an Abberation with Augment, Polypore, and Riot if you wanted to, because it'd be apparel! You could just layer it on there!

"But the layering would be weird!"
How many pieces of apparel on this site already layer weird? Some things just aren't gonna layer right, and we've accepted that. It's just part of the game.

That and a lot of the recent Ancient gene additions have been repeats of things older Ancients already had on another Ancient breed or the holiday ones which amount to little more than flowerfalls / halos / any number of "this sure is an image on top of a dragon" apparel with little to no bearing on the dragon itself, particularly Brightshine and Rockbreaker.

And now with the addition of an Earth ancient after the Earth holiday gene has been released... How are Dusthides going to get it if they're supposed to be the Earth dragons? If this was apparel, it could applied retroactively, but now it's seemingly not available to them at all.

• • • BREEDING • • •
Ancient breeds can't breed with Modern dragons or Ancients of other types. If you have an Aether, a Tundra, and an Undertide, they can't breed with each other in any configuration. You could argue this is because not all Ancients share genes with other breeds, but they've been making parallel genes anyway. If Ancient A breeds with Ancient B and ends up making Baby A with an exclusive Ancient B gene, just... Default to Ancient A's gene or make it turn into Basic. It's not very complicated and it'd only allow more freedom.

• • • IN CONCLUSION • • •
I respect the FR team a whole lot. As good as the Ancient breeds sounded, getting more dragons in less time with cool tertiary genes with the tradeoff being no apparel, I don't think it paid off the way they expected it to, and it's becoming sort of meh whenever they release a new Ancient. I would much prefer to wait a longer period of time for more Modern breeds with all the apparel at their disposal (considering that's half the game) and Ancient breeds with more creative themes than a new Ancient every so often more frequently that has potential but misses the mark on execution.

I don't expect them to change anything. They probably won't, and even if they did, I don't expect them to complete that backlog for all the current Ancients. I just love this site and the art and it's one of those things where I criticize it because I just know they can do better. I can wait for greatness and would prefer to do that than sit through a somewhat steady stream of okay additions.

What's the point of a breeding and dress up game if all these new dragons can't breed with 90% of the other dragons and can't be dressed up? You're left with, like... 1/4th of a game there at best.
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well put. it just doesnt make sense to sacrifice engine fuel for a "side project" like this, then go on admitting that there isnt enough to power the ship.
well put. it just doesnt make sense to sacrifice engine fuel for a "side project" like this, then go on admitting that there isnt enough to power the ship.
LilLegendary's green snapper dragon named Diema bobbing her head, wearing white headphones with black trim and a pink heart symbol on the ear cup.LilLegendary's green snapper dragon named Diema doing the monkey dance while flapping her wings and shaking her tail from side to side.LilLegendary's green snapper dragon named Diema dancing by waving her front legs in the air and turning her body from side to side.LilLegendary's green snapper dragon named Diema with one foreleg on her hip and the other waving in the air.
I agree that the line breaking terts have their novelty worn off at this point, especially if we consider that each individual Ancients don't have a lot of line breaking terts (even less on release too) however I don't see apparel working for any of these dragons because they weren't design for apparel. I don't care for the idea of Ancients not wearing apparel, however trying to turn them into Moderns would be way to messy and a massive pain for everyone.

The only dragons I could see having apparel is possibly the first 4 listed, dusthides significantly less due to their claws, but the rest, absolutely not. You say you see apparel not being fully customized to fit only one pair of limbs isn't an issue and is a moot point. I heavily disagree with that, especially since you mention the enhancement apparel but fail to mention the sets have pieces for front and back legs individually.
If I had an Abberation that I wanted to put a flower crown on one of them but not both of them how would that work? Should we have extra apparel pieces specific for specific heads and limbs? We had issues with the MP being flooded with all the specific ancient genes, this would just recreate that issue. There's no good way of going about this.

and onto the issue of turning terts into apparel, how would this affect dragons that already exist with that tert? do they have their genes they purchased for quite a bit turn into apparel or are they SoL? What about breeding pairs that rely on those terts? Or just breeding in general? It would be such a mess.

I get that Ancients aren't for everyone, they're not even really for me! I don't care for them much. But to change something like this so drastically that's been around for years at this point is an awful idea that would just be the eyepocalypse 2.0.

Edit: I actually didn't mean to post this, I hit submit early so thank you fat fingers for hitting submit when I wanted to move my screen so I could read what I wrote e.e the post is here but I'll probably edit this.

I didn't even mention either. It staff literally *years* to make a new modern now eith all the apparel and genes. I couldn't begin to imagine how long rebooting the Ancients would take for dragons we've already seen instead of getting a new modern...

I do agree staff probably shouldn't have taken on the idea of Ancients of they're struggling with their small team as is (I am happy they added a new member to help with lore primarily!) And I do wish they thought out more stuff when making Ancients. But whether the majority likes them or not, they're here and they were made this way and people already know them as they are established and have designed around how they are.
I agree that the line breaking terts have their novelty worn off at this point, especially if we consider that each individual Ancients don't have a lot of line breaking terts (even less on release too) however I don't see apparel working for any of these dragons because they weren't design for apparel. I don't care for the idea of Ancients not wearing apparel, however trying to turn them into Moderns would be way to messy and a massive pain for everyone.

The only dragons I could see having apparel is possibly the first 4 listed, dusthides significantly less due to their claws, but the rest, absolutely not. You say you see apparel not being fully customized to fit only one pair of limbs isn't an issue and is a moot point. I heavily disagree with that, especially since you mention the enhancement apparel but fail to mention the sets have pieces for front and back legs individually.
If I had an Abberation that I wanted to put a flower crown on one of them but not both of them how would that work? Should we have extra apparel pieces specific for specific heads and limbs? We had issues with the MP being flooded with all the specific ancient genes, this would just recreate that issue. There's no good way of going about this.

and onto the issue of turning terts into apparel, how would this affect dragons that already exist with that tert? do they have their genes they purchased for quite a bit turn into apparel or are they SoL? What about breeding pairs that rely on those terts? Or just breeding in general? It would be such a mess.

I get that Ancients aren't for everyone, they're not even really for me! I don't care for them much. But to change something like this so drastically that's been around for years at this point is an awful idea that would just be the eyepocalypse 2.0.

Edit: I actually didn't mean to post this, I hit submit early so thank you fat fingers for hitting submit when I wanted to move my screen so I could read what I wrote e.e the post is here but I'll probably edit this.

I didn't even mention either. It staff literally *years* to make a new modern now eith all the apparel and genes. I couldn't begin to imagine how long rebooting the Ancients would take for dragons we've already seen instead of getting a new modern...

I do agree staff probably shouldn't have taken on the idea of Ancients of they're struggling with their small team as is (I am happy they added a new member to help with lore primarily!) And I do wish they thought out more stuff when making Ancients. But whether the majority likes them or not, they're here and they were made this way and people already know them as they are established and have designed around how they are.
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You're kind of missing the point

Making modern dragons with apparel takes YEARS due to how long drawing apparel takes. Ancient dragons do not lack apparel because of linebreaker terts or unique body types. The purpose of ancients is to lack apparel, so more dragons can be released, and the linebreaker genes or more unique builds are a bonus.
You're kind of missing the point

Making modern dragons with apparel takes YEARS due to how long drawing apparel takes. Ancient dragons do not lack apparel because of linebreaker terts or unique body types. The purpose of ancients is to lack apparel, so more dragons can be released, and the linebreaker genes or more unique builds are a bonus.
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