Maybe it’s just me….but if a festival isn’t officially over until 06:00 FRT, then the flight whose festival is ongoing should still be in dominance until the festival actually ends. It’s a minor thing but it’s honestly something I’ve not noticed till now when I woke up early to get last minute skins for Thundercrack. But because of the way rollover works…I have to go to an Arcane flight representative to get the discount for skins for Lightning’s festival at their lowered rate and those waking up on the last early morning of the festival lose those extra gathering turns.
Again, it’s small, and I’m probably in the minority, I just don’t think if we’re going to say the festival, any festival, isn’t over until x time then the benefits should extend to that time as well.
EDIT: Current best proposed suggestion is to merge all site “calendars” to run on the same schedule. Rollover, dominance, festivals, etc.
Maybe it’s just me….but if a festival isn’t officially over until 06:00 FRT, then the flight whose festival is ongoing should still be in dominance until the festival actually ends. It’s a minor thing but it’s honestly something I’ve not noticed till now when I woke up early to get last minute skins for Thundercrack. But because of the way rollover works…I have to go to an Arcane flight representative to get the discount for skins for Lightning’s festival at their lowered rate and those waking up on the last early morning of the festival lose those extra gathering turns.
Again, it’s small, and I’m probably in the minority, I just don’t think if we’re going to say the festival, any festival, isn’t over until x time then the benefits should extend to that time as well.
EDIT: Current best proposed suggestion is to merge all site “calendars” to run on the same schedule. Rollover, dominance, festivals, etc.
No support.
Dominance is unaffected by festivals. The flight celebrating their festival only gets dominance that week because the community has agreed to not fight them for it; it is not an official mechanic, and unless it does become an official mechanic, there shouldn't be any site-feature acknowledgement of it.
The timing should not be altered once every month to accommodate an unofficial "feature" of a flight's festival. It's jarring and confusing, particularly for people who have set routines. It would also mean that the next flight would have less time to use their dominance bonuses, every time.
Edit: Dominance is calculated at 23:50 on Saturdays, so Lightning wouldn't have had extra gathering turns from the dom bonus today anyway.
No support.
Dominance is unaffected by festivals. The flight celebrating their festival only gets dominance that week because the community has agreed to not fight them for it; it is not an official mechanic, and unless it does become an official mechanic, there shouldn't be any site-feature acknowledgement of it.
The timing should not be altered once every month to accommodate an unofficial "feature" of a flight's festival. It's jarring and confusing, particularly for people who have set routines. It would also mean that the next flight would have less time to use their dominance bonuses, every time.
Edit: Dominance is calculated at 23:50 on Saturdays, so Lightning wouldn't have had extra gathering turns from the dom bonus today anyway.
[quote name="SeaCrest" date="2022-07-31 05:59:54" ]
No support.
Dominance is unaffected by festivals. The flight celebrating their festival only gets dominance that week because the community has agreed to not fight them for it; it is not an official mechanic, and unless it does become an official mechanic, there shouldn't be any site-feature acknowledgement of it.
The timing should not be altered once every month to accommodate an unofficial "feature" of a flight's festival. It's jarring and confusing, particularly for people who have set routines. It would also mean that the next flight would have less time to use their dominance bonuses, every time.
Edit: Dominance is calculated at 23:50 on Saturdays, so Lightning wouldn't have had extra gathering turns from the dom bonus today anyway.
[/quote]
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival, then if the festival doesn’t end until a certain time, it should follow for the duration of it. It doesn’t make it flight specific because every flight would be affected by this change and have the full time of their festival to enjoy those specific benefits everyone has “agreed” upon. It would be the expression everything evens out in the wash because, presumably, that next flight in line for dominance will receive it again during their given festival.
SeaCrest wrote on 2022-07-31 05:59:54:
No support.
Dominance is unaffected by festivals. The flight celebrating their festival only gets dominance that week because the community has agreed to not fight them for it; it is not an official mechanic, and unless it does become an official mechanic, there shouldn't be any site-feature acknowledgement of it.
The timing should not be altered once every month to accommodate an unofficial "feature" of a flight's festival. It's jarring and confusing, particularly for people who have set routines. It would also mean that the next flight would have less time to use their dominance bonuses, every time.
Edit: Dominance is calculated at 23:50 on Saturdays, so Lightning wouldn't have had extra gathering turns from the dom bonus today anyway.
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival, then if the festival doesn’t end until a certain time, it should follow for the duration of it. It doesn’t make it flight specific because every flight would be affected by this change and have the full time of their festival to enjoy those specific benefits everyone has “agreed” upon. It would be the expression everything evens out in the wash because, presumably, that next flight in line for dominance will receive it again during their given festival.
[quote name="AeonsMusings" date="2022-07-31 07:23:17" ]
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival,
[/quote]
Rephrasing, it's a universally accepted feature by the community that the flight with the upcoming festival can have uncontested dominance [b]from 23:50 on saturday, to 23:50 on the next saturday[/b] for the week that happens to overlap with their flight festival, which happens from 6:00 sunday to 6:00 the next sunday.
If lightning got an extra 6 hours of dom this week, cutting into earth's time, and then next month, fire gets an extra 6 hours and we assume earth gets dom the following week again, earth will lose an extra 6 hours of dom... will they be refunded 12 hours during their festival to even out the wash? And which flight loses 12 hours the following week after earth's festival?
The problem of "it evens out in the wash" is that while every flight would GET an extra 6 hours each year due to their festival (a set, guaranteed thing each flight gets once a year), the following week's dom isn't a set guaranteed thing, so not every flight would be losing the same 6 hours they're gaining during their fest.
eta: the only way to fix the problem (although I don't actually believe this is a problem at all) and not steal time from the following flight would be to change dom calculation to 6:00 sunday permanently. So rollover either needs to move to 6:00, or now you're switching dom on people outside of rollover and without the "things are changing" warning that rollover provides.
AeonsMusings wrote on 2022-07-31 07:23:17:
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival,
Rephrasing, it's a universally accepted feature by the community that the flight with the upcoming festival can have uncontested dominance
from 23:50 on saturday, to 23:50 on the next saturday for the week that happens to overlap with their flight festival, which happens from 6:00 sunday to 6:00 the next sunday.
If lightning got an extra 6 hours of dom this week, cutting into earth's time, and then next month, fire gets an extra 6 hours and we assume earth gets dom the following week again, earth will lose an extra 6 hours of dom... will they be refunded 12 hours during their festival to even out the wash? And which flight loses 12 hours the following week after earth's festival?
The problem of "it evens out in the wash" is that while every flight would GET an extra 6 hours each year due to their festival (a set, guaranteed thing each flight gets once a year), the following week's dom isn't a set guaranteed thing, so not every flight would be losing the same 6 hours they're gaining during their fest.
eta: the only way to fix the problem (although I don't actually believe this is a problem at all) and not steal time from the following flight would be to change dom calculation to 6:00 sunday permanently. So rollover either needs to move to 6:00, or now you're switching dom on people outside of rollover and without the "things are changing" warning that rollover provides.
[quote name="clockworkMoose" date="2022-07-31 07:55:05" ]
[quote name="AeonsMusings" date="2022-07-31 07:23:17" ]
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival,
[/quote]
Rephrasing, it's a universally accepted feature by the community that the flight with the upcoming festival can have uncontested dominance [b]from 23:50 on saturday, to 23:50 on the next saturday[/b] for the week that happens to overlap with their flight festival, which happens from 6:00 sunday to 6:00 the next sunday.
If lightning got an extra 6 hours of dom this week, cutting into earth's time, and then next month, fire gets an extra 6 hours and we assume earth gets dom the following week again, earth will lose an extra 6 hours of dom... will they be refunded 12 hours during their festival to even out the wash? And which flight loses 12 hours the following week after earth's festival?
The problem of "it evens out in the wash" is that while every flight would GET an extra 6 hours each year due to their festival (a set, guaranteed thing each flight gets once a year), the following week's dom isn't a set guaranteed thing, so not every flight would be losing the same 6 hours they're gaining during their fest.
eta: the only way to fix the problem (although I don't actually believe this is a problem at all) and not steal time from the following flight would be to change dom calculation to 6:00 sunday permanently. So rollover either needs to move to 6:00, or now you're switching dom on people outside of rollover and without the "things are changing" warning that rollover provides.
[/quote]
This is actually a very good point and very good suggestion—why not change rollover time entirely to mitigate the matter? Many site features end at 6. Thinking NoTN, Sunoarched Prowl, etc., so it isn’t exclusive to flight specific festivals. The reason the change exists to begin with is to allow FR staff to be up to witness the transition in case of issues. Side note, it isn’t fully six hours as you’re forgetting the maintenance window that occurs during that timeframe but that’s a minor matter.
clockworkMoose wrote on 2022-07-31 07:55:05:
AeonsMusings wrote on 2022-07-31 07:23:17:
I can see your point, but by your own definition if a universally accepted feature by the community is dominance during their festival,
Rephrasing, it's a universally accepted feature by the community that the flight with the upcoming festival can have uncontested dominance
from 23:50 on saturday, to 23:50 on the next saturday for the week that happens to overlap with their flight festival, which happens from 6:00 sunday to 6:00 the next sunday.
If lightning got an extra 6 hours of dom this week, cutting into earth's time, and then next month, fire gets an extra 6 hours and we assume earth gets dom the following week again, earth will lose an extra 6 hours of dom... will they be refunded 12 hours during their festival to even out the wash? And which flight loses 12 hours the following week after earth's festival?
The problem of "it evens out in the wash" is that while every flight would GET an extra 6 hours each year due to their festival (a set, guaranteed thing each flight gets once a year), the following week's dom isn't a set guaranteed thing, so not every flight would be losing the same 6 hours they're gaining during their fest.
eta: the only way to fix the problem (although I don't actually believe this is a problem at all) and not steal time from the following flight would be to change dom calculation to 6:00 sunday permanently. So rollover either needs to move to 6:00, or now you're switching dom on people outside of rollover and without the "things are changing" warning that rollover provides.
This is actually a very good point and very good suggestion—why not change rollover time entirely to mitigate the matter? Many site features end at 6. Thinking NoTN, Sunoarched Prowl, etc., so it isn’t exclusive to flight specific festivals. The reason the change exists to begin with is to allow FR staff to be up to witness the transition in case of issues. Side note, it isn’t fully six hours as you’re forgetting the maintenance window that occurs during that timeframe but that’s a minor matter.
I have long since wanted and will support the merging of all currently different "weeks" - dominance itself runs on once calendar, 23:45-23:45 (or 00:30-23:45, not sure where the start point is), dominance discounts run on another calendar, 00:30-23:59, events run on 06:00-05:59 calendars. Rollover and week is an arbitrary set point on a site that runs 24/7 with players active from all over the world, so let's just merge all of them into starting at current 06:00 and ending at current 05:59. One week of a mess with changing timezones will work out far better long term.
I have long since wanted and will support the merging of all currently different "weeks" - dominance itself runs on once calendar, 23:45-23:45 (or 00:30-23:45, not sure where the start point is), dominance discounts run on another calendar, 00:30-23:59, events run on 06:00-05:59 calendars. Rollover and week is an arbitrary set point on a site that runs 24/7 with players active from all over the world, so let's just merge all of them into starting at current 06:00 and ending at current 05:59. One week of a mess with changing timezones will work out far better long term.
[quote name="RedWillia" date="2022-07-31 08:30:54" ]
I have long since wanted and will support the merging of all currently different "weeks" - dominance itself runs on once calendar, 23:45-23:45 (or 00:30-23:45, not sure where the start point is), dominance discounts run on another calendar, 00:30-23:59, events run on 06:00-05:59 calendars. Rollover and week is an arbitrary set point on a site that runs 24/7 with players active from all over the world, so let's just merge all of them into starting at current 06:00 and ending at current 05:59. One week of a mess with changing timezones will work out far better long term.
[/quote]
VERY good point as well. Consolidating calendars does nothing but simplify the site and make things much easier for the staff as whole. ^^
RedWillia wrote on 2022-07-31 08:30:54:
I have long since wanted and will support the merging of all currently different "weeks" - dominance itself runs on once calendar, 23:45-23:45 (or 00:30-23:45, not sure where the start point is), dominance discounts run on another calendar, 00:30-23:59, events run on 06:00-05:59 calendars. Rollover and week is an arbitrary set point on a site that runs 24/7 with players active from all over the world, so let's just merge all of them into starting at current 06:00 and ending at current 05:59. One week of a mess with changing timezones will work out far better long term.
VERY good point as well. Consolidating calendars does nothing but simplify the site and make things much easier for the staff as whole. ^^
well I mean if you exalt at 23:50 FR-rollover on saturday (ie after dom is calculated the prior week) that can go to the standings for the next week's dom.
(which I think implies the dom week timeline is really 23:50-23:50). this isn't something that lots of people do because time zones and sleep.
I do feel badly for the people who run dom shops the week after a fest week because last minute orders can be hectic but they can just choose not to open.
I'd be hesitant for the change to be let's move it to 06FR bc that's the time that currently works for staff to be around and active today but what if in the future 09FR works better for them. (would we constanly be moving? etc)
well I mean if you exalt at 23:50 FR-rollover on saturday (ie after dom is calculated the prior week) that can go to the standings for the next week's dom.
(which I think implies the dom week timeline is really 23:50-23:50). this isn't something that lots of people do because time zones and sleep.
I do feel badly for the people who run dom shops the week after a fest week because last minute orders can be hectic but they can just choose not to open.
I'd be hesitant for the change to be let's move it to 06FR bc that's the time that currently works for staff to be around and active today but what if in the future 09FR works better for them. (would we constanly be moving? etc)
[quote name="AeonsMusings" date="2022-07-31 08:09:27" ]
This is actually a very good point and very good suggestion—why not change rollover time entirely to mitigate the matter? Many site features end at 6. Thinking NoTN, Sunoarched Prowl, etc., so it isn’t exclusive to flight specific festivals. The reason the change exists to begin with is to allow FR staff to be up to witness the transition in case of issues. Side note, it isn’t fully six hours as you’re forgetting the maintenance window that occurs during that timeframe but that’s a minor matter.
[/quote]
In past (and not so long ago actually!) fests start at 00.00 fr time. But at some point devs late with start. And decide that it is easier for them keep fest start moved by 6 hours.
This fest as you can see again starts later (for 30 min.) (devs didn't announced that this is new permanent time. But this obviously could happens. And again and again. Who knows)
Thus move dome time every time also? And especially problematic that it happens on surprise without warning.
Very bad idea. Those who involved in dom count on specific time especially on big battles
AeonsMusings wrote on 2022-07-31 08:09:27:
This is actually a very good point and very good suggestion—why not change rollover time entirely to mitigate the matter? Many site features end at 6. Thinking NoTN, Sunoarched Prowl, etc., so it isn’t exclusive to flight specific festivals. The reason the change exists to begin with is to allow FR staff to be up to witness the transition in case of issues. Side note, it isn’t fully six hours as you’re forgetting the maintenance window that occurs during that timeframe but that’s a minor matter.
In past (and not so long ago actually!) fests start at 00.00 fr time. But at some point devs late with start. And decide that it is easier for them keep fest start moved by 6 hours.
This fest as you can see again starts later (for 30 min.) (devs didn't announced that this is new permanent time. But this obviously could happens. And again and again. Who knows)
Thus move dome time every time also? And especially problematic that it happens on surprise without warning.
Very bad idea. Those who involved in dom count on specific time especially on big battles
I wouldn't want the rollover changes to switch to festival time, mostly cause it would put it at an awkward time for everything. When everything changes at rollover its nice and neat. Festivals happen once a month and even though they don't start at rollover (like they did in the past) its not as awkward for them to start and end later.
I can see how it would be annoying to loose out on the flight dominance for your flights festival, but to be honest, I think the system works fine how it is. And its only 6 hours which is to make up for the 6 hours you loose on the first Sunday of the festival. But the system is very neat and organized. And I think moving too much stuff would be frustrating for everyone. Especially if everything that gets reset at rollover is moved, then when the day changes nothing changes? It just would feel awkward. or would rollover just move to being later in the day? It might just be my love for routine and the way this is set up works just fine, so i don't see why we would want to change it. Especially moving the entire rollover time, since everyone is used to the way it is.
I wouldn't want the rollover changes to switch to festival time, mostly cause it would put it at an awkward time for everything. When everything changes at rollover its nice and neat. Festivals happen once a month and even though they don't start at rollover (like they did in the past) its not as awkward for them to start and end later.
I can see how it would be annoying to loose out on the flight dominance for your flights festival, but to be honest, I think the system works fine how it is. And its only 6 hours which is to make up for the 6 hours you loose on the first Sunday of the festival. But the system is very neat and organized. And I think moving too much stuff would be frustrating for everyone. Especially if everything that gets reset at rollover is moved, then when the day changes nothing changes? It just would feel awkward. or would rollover just move to being later in the day? It might just be my love for routine and the way this is set up works just fine, so i don't see why we would want to change it. Especially moving the entire rollover time, since everyone is used to the way it is.
