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@brightwaters Thank you :)

As far as the Imps go, I think I shall remove that from my posts since looking back I don't feel that it is relevant to this topic. I've seen others express similar opinions (as far as just the giving away part) across the forums but a thread about lair space prices isn't the right area to discuss it :)

@amadeus Agreed with your giveaway views. I don't see it as a question of the economy. Because I see it as a question of 'if someone has put in the time and resources, and owns something, even if it's just pixels, they can do what they like with it.'

Besides that, I wasn't given imps as a newbie but I did get a few plentifuls as starter gifts and I thought that was so nice and welcoming and frankly it was one reason I really liked coming to Flight Rising. Then I heard people were angry over this sort of thing happening in general, and I was a little taken aback by the idea it was wrong to be nice or generous. (This may now be one reason I will probably give away at least one imp once my pairs are breeding.)

Yes these are only pixels, but it works by the same principles: Should we make it illegal for a rich person to give money to the poor in reality? Shut down charities because it didn't give me enough so no one should have it at all? Because really the attitude strikes me as selfish.

It's a mix of bitterness or if not bitterness, the selfish expectation that if someone receives something, it hurts them somehow by the 'economy' making that person less likely to give imp money to them when they want to sell their dragons, right now, for overpriced amounts. (I have never yet had trouble selling a dragon because I price according to current rates or if I price a bit higher, I wait longer. So I am not convinced there is a problem of people not buying dragons, either.)

@wanderlustdragon Similarly, yes some things have very high prices. It may take weeks or months to achieve them. But there is nothing wrong with that. There should be longterm goals and it shouldn't be easy to max things out within a short time frame. The site's barely been open not even six months.

There's nothing wrong with playing casually either, or not liking some of the ways to gain treasure, but that really means a choice to either do it anyway, or use other treasure methods (most of mine comes from neither games nor breeding lately). And a casual player can't expect to gain the rewards as quickly as someone who does spend more time. (which I say as someone who often has to forego fairgrounds, coli, or both lately for time reasons, so I do understand. Suddenly it's going to take me a lot longer to reach my goals, and that's fine, because I'm suddenly not putting as much into it while I can't.)

@Drago

"Also I feel the need to point out, being forced to exalt/sell dragons you may not want to just to make space, because scraping enough treasure together to upgrade the lair is a nightmare, is definitely not fun."

This. It all boils down to what is fun to do. Sounds like for a lot of us, the games are not fun. I don't want to spend my limited time doing something I don't enjoy. That's crazy. I want to spend my time creating beautiful dragons and I don't want to have to give them up. I don't actually need more lair space. What I need is storage space. A place to put dragons that I'm not currently using. I don't care what form that takes or what it costs (although it probably should be gems because it costs the devs money for servers). I know there are other threads on this but they aren't getting much attention so thought I'd throw this in here because Drago is SO right.

[quote name="Kaytara" date="2013-11-04 10:56:52"][quote name="FortunaDraken" date="2013-11-02 05:20:21"]@Drago 100k is [i]easy[/i]. Fairgrounds caps at 75k, and it can take only a few hours, less if you're good at Jigsaw and/or Shock Switch. Hi or Lo gives you small amount each hour, as does Crim if she's feeling generous. Coliseum is perfectly capable of feeding your dragons by it alone once you have a team of high level dragons that can one-shot anything in area 1 and 2, thus gathering goes to Digging and Scavenging. Sell anything you don't need. Familiars give you small amounts each day plus possible treasure chests. I can get anywhere from 20-40k on rollover ALONE. If you're willing to spend a few hours, 100k a day is easy. The reason some people have no treasure is [b]not[/b] because of treasure sinks. It's because, as you said, nothing is selling. Lairs are capped, thus everyone who has been here awhile most likely isn't looking to buy more dragons on a full lair, while newbies either get free dragons or grab the cheap ones since prices have fallen, thus making their lairs full and making the problem worse. You'll probably find there are just as many people with treasure as without, they just don't want to spend it right now due to either a large lair, or not wanting to go to the effort to gene up dragons that then don't sell. Treasure sinks are a required part of this game, and will be needed in the future. Yes the lairs may be too much of one, but it's hard to change that now when there would be uproar from larger lair owners. What is really needed is more ways to get money, which are in the works with Crafting and Adventure.[/quote] That's what I hate about this type of thread. Always the inevitable few responses just dripping with elitism because duh, of COURSE you can earn treasure in this game, you only have to treat it as a part-time job with more senseless tedium and repetitive tasks than more desk jobs! A hefty part of FR's userbase has full-time jobs with only a few hours at most each day to set apart for the internet in general. According to you, they must resign to repetitive treasure-grinding during that time, otherwise they'd be silly to hope to still be able to achieve anything in the game. I love how people keep bringing up that the game! needs! treasure sinks! while completely ignoring that it's an issue of balance. Balance, as in between both sides. Treasure sinks AND treasure sources need to be in balance, and right now, they really really aren't, at least for the majority of the userbase. And @Tuberose: Yes, it makes sense that people who invest more time and effort in the game get rewarded more. What doesn't make sense and speaks of poor game design is that it seems to be an all-or-nothing, extremely polarised issue, as seen by the responses in this thread if nothing else. There's people saying everything's fine, people saying that everything's so not fine that they've lost all enthusiasm for the game, and a small handful of in-betweens. Either you are the type of person who is capable of grinding games for 2-3 hours a day without your head exploding, or you aren't. Why should the latter group get to have *no fun at all* because they don't enjoy one of the many aspects of the game that's unfortunately crucial in earning treasure? And, as mentioned and keeps being forgotten, the insistence of "but you have to play the games to earn treasure and enjoy the other features that *cost* treasure!" is very unfair to those who cannot play the games or coli for long due to health issues and is thus frankly ableist. Nobody's complaining that it's *impossible* to earn treasure, because it isn't. A lot of people ARE complaining that it's no longer fun to the point of being too frustrating for the payoff to be worth it. That's what we're asking for. We're asking to adjust the balance of the game to make it more fun and less frustrating for those of us who are frustrated with it, so we can have fun too. Whether that happens by adjusting the most frustrating and ridiculous of the *many* treasure sinks or by increasing and creating tiered exalting payout or making the games and coli give more treasure or something else entirely is a different question, but *something* needs to be done.[/quote] Just thought this needed to be re-posted, and I'd like to put some input in as well. I'm a full-time student in college. I am taking 12 units, that's 5 classes, and 4 of them are 3 hours long each, the other 50 minutes. Playing Tidal Trouble (the only game I seem to make good payout in for some reason, and actually like to play) takes at least 3 hours typically for me to make 75k. This is me solving most of the puzzles in 20 seconds to 1 minute. I get home at 9:30pm two nights a week, sometimes later, and the site resets at midnight my time. Yes, I get some hour breaks during classes, but sometimes I actually have to...prepare for a class, or do homework between them. So sometimes I'll post, do a few games here or there, but my day is packed. Oh, and I work from 8:30am to 11:30am, and my first classes start at 12-1pm. By the time I finally get home, I just want to enjoy myself a little bit, have to take care of my pets, and just try to relax a little. This doesn't include me doing homework, trying to make a dinner for myself, etc. By the time I'm home, I'm thoroughly exhausted, and after playing a repetitive game for more than an hour, I start to get really, really disinterested in this site. And what if I don't get done by midnight? It resets and I have to start all over again, the same cycle. When I was on vacation, yeah I guess I could stay up till 4am playing games, even if they got boring, to grind for pixel reptilian flying creatures. But after a while, that's what the game becomes, [i][b]a grind[/b][/i]. [b]If the game becomes more of a grind than profit/enjoyment/fulfillment the general audience makes, a game dies.[/b] That's why a lot of MMOs are fading out (see WoW and PW, or at least the Malay server that I played on was completely shut down because people got bored with the game). ALSO, I would like to express there is a huge difference between being able to feed your dragons, and sink 10mil into an expansion. Yeah, some people with 75 dragons and more need to feed the dragons at least 2+ in food a day, but you can gather food, which takes less than five minutes, and buy food from people in the auction house, trade items for it, etc. Food is fairly plentiful, and cheap to get. I see stacks of 99 food on the AH go for darn cheap. Feeding dragons is not the same as pouring a month's work of savings into expanding five slots. The reward vs. effort is horribly skewed in this aspect of the game. And honestly, it's really, really selfish of older players to say "well I had to grind it so everyone should have to." [i]No[/i], just no. Games adapt and change for a reason. Mechanics change fora reason. If no games improved just because people may actually get to enjoy the game more, have a different experience than those practically in its infant stages, then there is something fundamentally wrong. Yeah, almost everything purchasable on this site is a money sink, and hopefully the majority of them have rewardable results, but that doesn't counter-weigh the absurd amount of effort for some of them, especially to those that either cannot play the games due to disability, time restraints, or a slow computer.

I support that the price could be lowered a bit, but not drastically. And I do think it should still be increasing, even for the same 5 slots. It makes sense that you would need to pay more each time as you are taking up more space in your element's territory.