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Make Flight Rising better by sharing your ideas!
TOPIC | Elemental Burst
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@Arater

One aura is only one aura this is right. But this has the potential to be so much more. As I said a whole set with different recolors adding up to eleven sets plus their colors (4 or 5 would be good 6 or 7 a dream). The centerpiece would ne an aura of some sort. Vapor, flames, symbols, runes, ghostly imagery. The other pieces could go to the extrmities. Like glovelike thin vines with flowers (not like the rosethorn, finer mor delicate but blooming in the way only something full of life can), dripping goo that leaves puddles of black ink, molten metals lighting up wings, something disgusting growing and winding along the tail for plague.

These would be finally elemental sets people have asked for often as festival stuff. Such a set doesn't fit a festival but is ideal for baldwins, swipp or adventure mode. I still have hope.

@Arater

One aura is only one aura this is right. But this has the potential to be so much more. As I said a whole set with different recolors adding up to eleven sets plus their colors (4 or 5 would be good 6 or 7 a dream). The centerpiece would ne an aura of some sort. Vapor, flames, symbols, runes, ghostly imagery. The other pieces could go to the extrmities. Like glovelike thin vines with flowers (not like the rosethorn, finer mor delicate but blooming in the way only something full of life can), dripping goo that leaves puddles of black ink, molten metals lighting up wings, something disgusting growing and winding along the tail for plague.

These would be finally elemental sets people have asked for often as festival stuff. Such a set doesn't fit a festival but is ideal for baldwins, swipp or adventure mode. I still have hope.
[quote name="Ismaiel" date=2017-12-28 13:09:34] One aura is only one aura this is right. But this has the potential to be so much more. As I said a whole set with different recolors adding up to eleven sets plus their colors (4 or 5 would be good 6 or 7 a dream). The centerpiece would ne an aura of some sort. Vapor, flames, symbols, runes, ghostly imagery. The other pieces could go to the extrmities. Like glovelike thin vines with flowers (not like the rosethorn, finer mor delicate but blooming in the way only something full of life can), dripping goo that leaves puddles of black ink, molten metals lighting up wings, something disgusting growing and winding along the tail for plague. These would be finally elemental sets people have asked for often as festival stuff. Such a set doesn't fit a festival but is ideal for baldwins, swipp or adventure mode. I still have hope. [/quote] @Ismaiel You mean like a flame caller set or something? Inspired in the gods? or inspired in the general element? Sounds pretty and interesting both ways Might be a good adition to the NotN, as its based on mimics, and that could be mimicking the gods or an elemental itself
Ismaiel wrote on 2017-12-28:


One aura is only one aura this is right. But this has the potential to be so much more. As I said a whole set with different recolors adding up to eleven sets plus their colors (4 or 5 would be good 6 or 7 a dream). The centerpiece would ne an aura of some sort. Vapor, flames, symbols, runes, ghostly imagery. The other pieces could go to the extrmities. Like glovelike thin vines with flowers (not like the rosethorn, finer mor delicate but blooming in the way only something full of life can), dripping goo that leaves puddles of black ink, molten metals lighting up wings, something disgusting growing and winding along the tail for plague.

These would be finally elemental sets people have asked for often as festival stuff. Such a set doesn't fit a festival but is ideal for baldwins, swipp or adventure mode. I still have hope.

@Ismaiel

You mean like a flame caller set or something?
Inspired in the gods? or inspired in the general element? Sounds pretty and interesting both ways

Might be a good adition to the NotN, as its based on mimics, and that could be mimicking the gods or an elemental itself
Another way would be to make this into a background instead. It wouldn't fit the dragon's outline as well as an apparel or your burst/aura idea, but it can be more versatile in design since it's a background.
Another way would be to make this into a background instead. It wouldn't fit the dragon's outline as well as an apparel or your burst/aura idea, but it can be more versatile in design since it's a background.
hatfrbanner-zps77e423a6_orig.pngpinksaphire-zpsf5iyzhbb_orig.gif
I really like this idea! this would be effective in color scemes for dragons! like if you wanted a pastel ping derg- the current arcane eyes are a bit... bright for those dergs???
I really like this idea! this would be effective in color scemes for dragons! like if you wanted a pastel ping derg- the current arcane eyes are a bit... bright for those dergs???
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[quote name="@Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] [b]Bursts are allowed in any element of dragon[/b]: -As suggested by some players, then it wouldn't be different from normal apparel, then the color spectrum variation by runestone would be impossible (as no apparel has those, and it would be really unfair if just these got them, being apparel) The Devs would be demanded to do that with past festive apparel to say the least.[/quote] I'm not too sure what you mean by this or what the problem is. It could probably be avoided by not making them festival items (see Baldwin's elemental tomes), and besides, people 'demanding' that the devs do something is an unprovable assumption and not an argument. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -Coming from this, then the burst would be 1 color and probably unique from elemental festivals (as most other flight related apparel), sometimes, in chests or Joxar's, you could maybe, in some time, get a slightly different recolor from maybe 4 of the bursts. (you might think that they don't really have to be part of any festival, but just in the second post of this topic, the many apparels presented are almost all from festivals, because like burst, they are mean to represente a flight)[/quote] Is this a problem? I can't quite understand it. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -The devs have to take the lore by hand, although i don't really mind it that much, but they obviously want to, because they haven't released the so much suggested before contact lenses (seriously, check it out, lots of times), and if they ever forgot lore, players that abide by it would jump at their necks, so because of this, bursts wouldn't be a possibility.[/quote] Lore should never, ever get in the way of gameplay. Likewise, gameplay should not get in the way of lore. If these items were unrestricted, all the lore players would use them according to lore (that is, assuming everyone interprets them as outward expressions of a dragon's elemental nature, which isn't a given) and all the aesthetics players would use them for aesthetics. Neither group is 'right' and neither group has the right to tell the other how to play. The only just solution is to make the new items freely usable. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -Any chance of it ever being animated its null, as no other apparel has been animated before, and this one won't be the first one.[/quote] No support for any animation. Too time-consuming (every frame needs to be drawn!), too eye-catching, too much data for those on mobile, too slow to load for everyone. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -Apparel are something that you wear, not something inside you, that's why i first specified that this is something inherent to the dragon, not an apparel that you can exchange at will and even sell as it is[/quote] That's arguing from your non-objective headcanon, which you cannot impose on everyone else. Some people might not even interpret these items as 'inherent to the dragon'. They could be a blessing from a deity, the aftermath of a magical accident, or even just an aesthetic choice. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] [b]Bursts remain as element tied:[/b] -A new system has to be made, it requires work from the devs, but its really possible[/quote] Entirely true. Again, you have to weigh this effort against the benefits, but otherwise this point is correct. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -Some people are sad because their red dragon got a blue burst and they don't want dark blue, light blue, dark purple or green-blue on their red dragons, thus, bad combination dragons devaluate a bit more, while well combined one raise their price a bit more[/quote] It isn't the value that matters, it's the people who wanted to make an aesthetic choice who are now unhappy because they have been arbitrarily prevented from doing so. How many complaints, how many suggestions to make these items freely available would follow? This is a huge portion of the playerbase that you're disappointing by design. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -The system abide by lore, so Devs wouldn't get lore followers mad ad them if they ever made it[/quote] The lore players are 'not mad' here, not happy- not even close to balancing all the annoyed aesthetic players. You're alienating one chunk of the userbase to avoid alienating another, when by making the items freely available you make everyone happy. (Again, the lore followers have no right to get angry over how other people choose to play the game). [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -We get what can be the first animated decoration for our dragons, and some of them become incredibly gorgeous, more than we could ever get with our apparel filled slots. Also the devs get to try something new, and maybe, get new ideas to evolve Flight Rising even further in the future.[/quote] Support for new cool-looking apparel pieces- that's been my position from the start. No support for animation, as stated above. Also, 'the devs get to do something' is not an argument for the devs doing something. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] -If we choose to use this system, getting runes would be necessary, even though they will get a bit more expensive, but at least they would finally have some use.[/quote] They already do have a use. They are used to brew elemental tomes at Baldwin's. Besides, this is a minor item-balancing point: it hardly ameliorates the much bigger problems above. [quote name="Arater" date=2017-12-28 10:58:31] When presenting a suggestion we can't just see it from the player's point of view, but from the DEV's too, and while we can't really think just like that, it would be nice to try to anticipate what can happen, as depending on that the chance of getting something or not getting it varies a lot.[/quote] On the contrary: when making a change to a game, the enjoyment of the players should be the prime concern. After all, that's why the game exists: as entertainment for its players.
@Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
Bursts are allowed in any element of dragon:

-As suggested by some players, then it wouldn't be different from normal apparel, then the color spectrum variation by runestone would be impossible (as no apparel has those, and it would be really unfair if just these got them, being apparel) The Devs would be demanded to do that with past festive apparel to say the least.
I'm not too sure what you mean by this or what the problem is. It could probably be avoided by not making them festival items (see Baldwin's elemental tomes), and besides, people 'demanding' that the devs do something is an unprovable assumption and not an argument.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-Coming from this, then the burst would be 1 color and probably unique from elemental festivals (as most other flight related apparel), sometimes, in chests or Joxar's, you could maybe, in some time, get a slightly different recolor from maybe 4 of the bursts. (you might think that they don't really have to be part of any festival, but just in the second post of this topic, the many apparels presented are almost all from festivals, because like burst, they are mean to represente a flight)
Is this a problem? I can't quite understand it.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-The devs have to take the lore by hand, although i don't really mind it that much, but they obviously want to, because they haven't released the so much suggested before contact lenses (seriously, check it out, lots of times), and if they ever forgot lore, players that abide by it would jump at their necks, so because of this, bursts wouldn't be a possibility.
Lore should never, ever get in the way of gameplay. Likewise, gameplay should not get in the way of lore. If these items were unrestricted, all the lore players would use them according to lore (that is, assuming everyone interprets them as outward expressions of a dragon's elemental nature, which isn't a given) and all the aesthetics players would use them for aesthetics. Neither group is 'right' and neither group has the right to tell the other how to play. The only just solution is to make the new items freely usable.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-Any chance of it ever being animated its null, as no other apparel has been animated before, and this one won't be the first one.
No support for any animation. Too time-consuming (every frame needs to be drawn!), too eye-catching, too much data for those on mobile, too slow to load for everyone.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-Apparel are something that you wear, not something inside you, that's why i first specified that this is something inherent to the dragon, not an apparel that you can exchange at will and even sell as it is
That's arguing from your non-objective headcanon, which you cannot impose on everyone else. Some people might not even interpret these items as 'inherent to the dragon'. They could be a blessing from a deity, the aftermath of a magical accident, or even just an aesthetic choice.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
Bursts remain as element tied:

-A new system has to be made, it requires work from the devs, but its really possible
Entirely true. Again, you have to weigh this effort against the benefits, but otherwise this point is correct.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-Some people are sad because their red dragon got a blue burst and they don't want dark blue, light blue, dark purple or green-blue on their red dragons, thus, bad combination dragons devaluate a bit more, while well combined one raise their price a bit more
It isn't the value that matters, it's the people who wanted to make an aesthetic choice who are now unhappy because they have been arbitrarily prevented from doing so. How many complaints, how many suggestions to make these items freely available would follow? This is a huge portion of the playerbase that you're disappointing by design.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-The system abide by lore, so Devs wouldn't get lore followers mad ad them if they ever made it
The lore players are 'not mad' here, not happy- not even close to balancing all the annoyed aesthetic players. You're alienating one chunk of the userbase to avoid alienating another, when by making the items freely available you make everyone happy. (Again, the lore followers have no right to get angry over how other people choose to play the game).

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-We get what can be the first animated decoration for our dragons, and some of them become incredibly gorgeous, more than we could ever get with our apparel filled slots. Also the devs get to try something new, and maybe, get new ideas to evolve Flight Rising even further in the future.
Support for new cool-looking apparel pieces- that's been my position from the start. No support for animation, as stated above. Also, 'the devs get to do something' is not an argument for the devs doing something.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
-If we choose to use this system, getting runes would be necessary, even though they will get a bit more expensive, but at least they would finally have some use.
They already do have a use. They are used to brew elemental tomes at Baldwin's. Besides, this is a minor item-balancing point: it hardly ameliorates the much bigger problems above.

Arater wrote on 2017-12-28:
When presenting a suggestion we can't just see it from the player's point of view, but from the DEV's too, and while we can't really think just like that, it would be nice to try to anticipate what can happen, as depending on that the chance of getting something or not getting it varies a lot.
On the contrary: when making a change to a game, the enjoyment of the players should be the prime concern. After all, that's why the game exists: as entertainment for its players.
windh4.png
@hat17
They are somewhat of a background by now, as they are supposed to be actually big in relation to the total space on the dragon display, just that they are supposed to come out from the dragon, one way or another, as a reference, they would be similar to Spirt Guard Udyr's Splashart in how the element manifest, so there is some visual, as I'm really bad at drawing.


@clw23

Feels good to hear that you like it as it is, Thanks.

Right now the Arcane eyes are bubblegum pink I think, it really looks strange with some dragon colors and breeds that have the eyes too visible, this should help a bit to diminish the effect of those, and it would be interesting if the burst color made the eye color mimic them, but I don't think that's possible because many burst colors are too similar from flight to flight (Red Fire and Red Plague)

@WyvernVenom

I don't think that Devs would just add this in baldwin or just alone because it would be an easy way to get relatively simple flight festival apparel, and later on, a recolor for festive favors.

And yes, people do demand things to devs, in every game, be it due to money related item, more free things, faster updates and so, sometimes to really egoistical points, another thing is that the devs ignore them, I don't know if that's the case here though, I hope it isn't, in either side.

The apparel being added to Joxar is more or less what you didn't like from the idea, if the original fire aura apparel is orange, and the joxar's recolor made it light green (wind as a cloud, or green as a strange bush), then it doesn't fit other colors of dragons, and you would be stuck with those 2, but way less colors than the color spectrum in the original burst idea.

Lore always gets in the way of gameplay and so, they are usually attached, thats why there isn't many dragonborns in skyrim, there is only one legendary of each kind in any pokemon game, or you can't speak with an asmodian as an elyos on the void in Aion (as many other examples, like the gods not being able to breed and have special dragons that the community could have, even when they are normal dragons in everything but the looks here on the web)

No one prevents you from making that aesthetic choice, isn't there some ways to bypass the eye coloring issue? like the nest renting, then the burst choice limitation is as trivial as the eye one. If you want the perfect dragon, you will want it with the perfect element too.

No one has any reason to get mad on how other plays the game, but those things happen, far too often, then begin the post "this has changed", "beta player from 20xx, bored of playing cause X", i hope it isn't the case here, but I'm sure there would be critics if suddenly the devs allowed people to freely change their dragon's eye color or elements (although many others would love it).

Animation was something that i was pondering about adding or not, as its quite pleasing to open the status page of your dragon to see a 1-2 seconds animation of how the burst "erupts" in full glory, but isn't something really important, just flair to differentiate it from normal apparel even further. I never said that the devs got to do something, but that if they ever tried to implement the system I described, they finally could get to try new things and find new ideas, instead of more apparel and familiars (i'm expecting to see what they do with the coliseum rework though)

Runes and Tomes were planned to be used for something else, related to this idea, haven't added it yet to the main point because I was waiting for general feedback, will add it soon.

When the user makes the idea, it has to regard both user enjoyment and dev's, or they won't add it, no matter what, its the devs who have to be specially careful for the users to have fun with what they add, that's why I said that I don't want the burst to be normal apparel, but Its up to them if they take the idea to allow a water dragon to burst as a earth one or so, they will see if they ever make use of this idea, I can only make it easier for them and hope.
@hat17
They are somewhat of a background by now, as they are supposed to be actually big in relation to the total space on the dragon display, just that they are supposed to come out from the dragon, one way or another, as a reference, they would be similar to Spirt Guard Udyr's Splashart in how the element manifest, so there is some visual, as I'm really bad at drawing.


@clw23

Feels good to hear that you like it as it is, Thanks.

Right now the Arcane eyes are bubblegum pink I think, it really looks strange with some dragon colors and breeds that have the eyes too visible, this should help a bit to diminish the effect of those, and it would be interesting if the burst color made the eye color mimic them, but I don't think that's possible because many burst colors are too similar from flight to flight (Red Fire and Red Plague)

@WyvernVenom

I don't think that Devs would just add this in baldwin or just alone because it would be an easy way to get relatively simple flight festival apparel, and later on, a recolor for festive favors.

And yes, people do demand things to devs, in every game, be it due to money related item, more free things, faster updates and so, sometimes to really egoistical points, another thing is that the devs ignore them, I don't know if that's the case here though, I hope it isn't, in either side.

The apparel being added to Joxar is more or less what you didn't like from the idea, if the original fire aura apparel is orange, and the joxar's recolor made it light green (wind as a cloud, or green as a strange bush), then it doesn't fit other colors of dragons, and you would be stuck with those 2, but way less colors than the color spectrum in the original burst idea.

Lore always gets in the way of gameplay and so, they are usually attached, thats why there isn't many dragonborns in skyrim, there is only one legendary of each kind in any pokemon game, or you can't speak with an asmodian as an elyos on the void in Aion (as many other examples, like the gods not being able to breed and have special dragons that the community could have, even when they are normal dragons in everything but the looks here on the web)

No one prevents you from making that aesthetic choice, isn't there some ways to bypass the eye coloring issue? like the nest renting, then the burst choice limitation is as trivial as the eye one. If you want the perfect dragon, you will want it with the perfect element too.

No one has any reason to get mad on how other plays the game, but those things happen, far too often, then begin the post "this has changed", "beta player from 20xx, bored of playing cause X", i hope it isn't the case here, but I'm sure there would be critics if suddenly the devs allowed people to freely change their dragon's eye color or elements (although many others would love it).

Animation was something that i was pondering about adding or not, as its quite pleasing to open the status page of your dragon to see a 1-2 seconds animation of how the burst "erupts" in full glory, but isn't something really important, just flair to differentiate it from normal apparel even further. I never said that the devs got to do something, but that if they ever tried to implement the system I described, they finally could get to try new things and find new ideas, instead of more apparel and familiars (i'm expecting to see what they do with the coliseum rework though)

Runes and Tomes were planned to be used for something else, related to this idea, haven't added it yet to the main point because I was waiting for general feedback, will add it soon.

When the user makes the idea, it has to regard both user enjoyment and dev's, or they won't add it, no matter what, its the devs who have to be specially careful for the users to have fun with what they add, that's why I said that I don't want the burst to be normal apparel, but Its up to them if they take the idea to allow a water dragon to burst as a earth one or so, they will see if they ever make use of this idea, I can only make it easier for them and hope.
@Arater

I think the recolors/festivals/Joxar discussion is tangential to the main issue. However these items are implemented, recolors or Joxar or whatever, they should not be limited to dragons of the correct element. This is the only thing I have a problem with (since it seems the complicated system has been dropped from discussion).

The key disagreement here is about the relationship between lore and gameplay. Ideally, they would work together, but lore should not be an excuse to make poor gameplay. Restricting these items to dragons of the correct element simply would not make for an enjoyable gameplay experience for a large number of people, who would feel that they were being unfairly restricted and prevented from designing a good-looking dragon, which is one of FR's primary attractions.

My question is, how would the proposed element-restricted system be more fun than simply allowing users to freely use the new items?

My idea for how this would go is to simply release new elemental-themed apparel. It doesn't matter if they're festival items, if recolors are added, if they're organized by color or by element. What does matter is that they are normal apparel items and can be freely used.

I'm beginning to think that we're arguing in circles. If we can't come to an agreement soon, I think we may have to agree to disagree.
@Arater

I think the recolors/festivals/Joxar discussion is tangential to the main issue. However these items are implemented, recolors or Joxar or whatever, they should not be limited to dragons of the correct element. This is the only thing I have a problem with (since it seems the complicated system has been dropped from discussion).

The key disagreement here is about the relationship between lore and gameplay. Ideally, they would work together, but lore should not be an excuse to make poor gameplay. Restricting these items to dragons of the correct element simply would not make for an enjoyable gameplay experience for a large number of people, who would feel that they were being unfairly restricted and prevented from designing a good-looking dragon, which is one of FR's primary attractions.

My question is, how would the proposed element-restricted system be more fun than simply allowing users to freely use the new items?

My idea for how this would go is to simply release new elemental-themed apparel. It doesn't matter if they're festival items, if recolors are added, if they're organized by color or by element. What does matter is that they are normal apparel items and can be freely used.

I'm beginning to think that we're arguing in circles. If we can't come to an agreement soon, I think we may have to agree to disagree.
windh4.png
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