(RE: both people up) This is a side discussion that is of the same old "let's unretire all the things", so I will not get into this deeply:
You don't get the point: I and a lot people worked and paid those 10kg+ with
the knowledge that the prices wouldn't drop that much lower because their number is limited - what's the point of me working at all if I can get the same thing with two days in Artifacture? What's the point of me right now saving up for a Light sprite? The Mantarunes are completely different things because they are unlimited and drop freely in the Kelp Beds; unlike any retired things that, obviously, don't drop anywhere anymore. Regarding Joxar Boxes and their drop percentages, please move to the related suggestion thread
HERE.
And I still don't see the problem with having some items harder to acquire, with saving some treasure/gems for things that you want instead of receiving them on a platter.
The problem with "nothing retires/cycles ever" is that everything becomes worthless because as time goes by, more and more of that item becomes available. You have to have some steps in expensiveness, like there are treasure genes and gem genes; there are common breed scrolls and skydancer scrolls and coatl scrolls in gems and cycled wildclaw scrolls and retired imperial scrolls that are still very rarely sold. Retirement would be one way of adding these kind of steps, therefore I fully support retiring some things (not necessarily festival things) again.
Outside of retirement or a real one-time only event, I like this suggestion:
Quote:
There are ways to make things "rare" and expensive outside of retirement- for example, wildclaw scrolls and unhatched eggs and eliminate. I'd rather see things like this, where the policy is "less available" vs "no longer available".
(RE: both people up) This is a side discussion that is of the same old "let's unretire all the things", so I will not get into this deeply:
You don't get the point: I and a lot people worked and paid those 10kg+ with
the knowledge that the prices wouldn't drop that much lower because their number is limited - what's the point of me working at all if I can get the same thing with two days in Artifacture? What's the point of me right now saving up for a Light sprite? The Mantarunes are completely different things because they are unlimited and drop freely in the Kelp Beds; unlike any retired things that, obviously, don't drop anywhere anymore. Regarding Joxar Boxes and their drop percentages, please move to the related suggestion thread
HERE.
And I still don't see the problem with having some items harder to acquire, with saving some treasure/gems for things that you want instead of receiving them on a platter.
The problem with "nothing retires/cycles ever" is that everything becomes worthless because as time goes by, more and more of that item becomes available. You have to have some steps in expensiveness, like there are treasure genes and gem genes; there are common breed scrolls and skydancer scrolls and coatl scrolls in gems and cycled wildclaw scrolls and retired imperial scrolls that are still very rarely sold. Retirement would be one way of adding these kind of steps, therefore I fully support retiring some things (not necessarily festival things) again.
Outside of retirement or a real one-time only event, I like this suggestion:
Quote:
There are ways to make things "rare" and expensive outside of retirement- for example, wildclaw scrolls and unhatched eggs and eliminate. I'd rather see things like this, where the policy is "less available" vs "no longer available".
[quote name="Jolinar" date=2017-05-31 02:23:37]
Sorry, another no support here.
If there's another trickle of sprites into the market, yay? It'll prompt another ripple of currency movement as the sprites get sold, and maybe knock the prices of the really old ones a notch or two below 'your left kidney'.
So let them be unretired. Put the Light Sprite and the Sunchaser's in with the rest. Let the lottery cover everything. It won't affect anything except maybe giving newbies a big financial boost.
[/quote]
I believe there is some confusion here. The sprites aren't returning, it's not the suggestions "all or nothing" - the one here is about the current situation (=bears, crowns and everything from 2016-17+ cycled in the chests) vs retire everything.
If we add "unretire sprites" to the mix, it'll become a mess in a blink of an eye. Let's keep it separate as the suggestion is not about unretirement, but the very opposite of that :3
Jolinar wrote on 2017-05-31:
Sorry, another no support here.
If there's another trickle of sprites into the market, yay? It'll prompt another ripple of currency movement as the sprites get sold, and maybe knock the prices of the really old ones a notch or two below 'your left kidney'.
So let them be unretired. Put the Light Sprite and the Sunchaser's in with the rest. Let the lottery cover everything. It won't affect anything except maybe giving newbies a big financial boost.
I believe there is some confusion here. The sprites aren't returning, it's not the suggestions "all or nothing" - the one here is about the current situation (=bears, crowns and everything from 2016-17+ cycled in the chests) vs retire everything.
If we add "unretire sprites" to the mix, it'll become a mess in a blink of an eye. Let's keep it separate as the suggestion is not about unretirement, but the very opposite of that :3
[quote name="Valemora" date=2017-05-31 05:33:45]
I believe there is some confusion here. The sprites aren't returning, it's not the suggestions "all or nothing" - the one here is about the current situation (=bears, crowns and everything from 2016-17+ cycled in the chests) vs retire everything.
If we add "unretire sprites" to the mix, it'll become a mess in a blink of an eye. Let's keep it separate as the suggestion is not about unretirement, but the very opposite of that :3
[/quote]
Then take it up with everyone else that brought up sprites before me too.
Valemora wrote on 2017-05-31:
I believe there is some confusion here. The sprites aren't returning, it's not the suggestions "all or nothing" - the one here is about the current situation (=bears, crowns and everything from 2016-17+ cycled in the chests) vs retire everything.
If we add "unretire sprites" to the mix, it'll become a mess in a blink of an eye. Let's keep it separate as the suggestion is not about unretirement, but the very opposite of that :3
Then take it up with everyone else that brought up sprites before me too.
[quote]what's the point of me working at all if I can get the same thing with two days in Artifacture?[/quote]
You also don't get the point. A trickle would not cause that much deflation. People are not arguing for Bears 2.0. They also don't want Sprites 2.0.
The thing is, with saying "everything becomes worthless" unless it retires and "there's nothing to work for any more" does not help the current userbase. If the current players are truly having a hard time finding stuff to buy, retiring any items at this point in time isn't going to suddenly make them hard to obtain overnight. Tomorrow and the next month and the nest year and the year after that, the just retired items are still only going to inflate so fast. Existing players would get all the copies they want without any of that "left kidney" effort. Instead, retiring items now for the players now only actually causes inflation and frustration for future players by locking them out. It doesn't really benefit anyone now and harms those who might join in the future. No thanks.
And why do we need items in the "left kidney" range? We've got cheap items, we've got medium items, we've got some fair priced genes, we've got some premium items, we've got expensive items. IMO, FR doesn't need any "soul of the firstborn" items. Instead, why not focus on the premium/expensive tier? Why not aim for more items along the price of coatl scrolls and upper lair expansions? Or along the lines of nicely colored Gen 1s? Having a wide range of high-end-but-obtainable items keeps players engaged. Once they work three months to get the coatl scroll, they can work for another month and get that custom accent, and then branch out into a dream Gen 1 dragon. But I've been working a year on a Light Sprite. In doing so, I don't spend much treasure on anything else, so I get no "ahh, I achieved a goal" satisfaction in the interim. I don't get to add new genes to my dragons (I would love metallic/alloy on a few); I've been resisting the temptation to skim off some of my funds for a hydra. And yet I still probably have at least another year's worth of work to go. That really isn't fun or enjoyable. And I can just imagine if FR retired even more items/had more "left kidney" priced items, new players would just look at things, shake their heads, and log out. Sure, some would stay, but I feel that too many people would find the gap between established players and themselves not worth overcoming. So it isn't good for FR to constantly push items to have sky high price tags. And FR has done a good job at providing us a range of items we can spend our time doing and earning; if players can't find anything...I don't believe it's FR's fault, nor do I believe FR needs to ruin their economy just to cater to those people.
Quote:
what's the point of me working at all if I can get the same thing with two days in Artifacture?
You also don't get the point. A trickle would not cause that much deflation. People are not arguing for Bears 2.0. They also don't want Sprites 2.0.
The thing is, with saying "everything becomes worthless" unless it retires and "there's nothing to work for any more" does not help the current userbase. If the current players are truly having a hard time finding stuff to buy, retiring any items at this point in time isn't going to suddenly make them hard to obtain overnight. Tomorrow and the next month and the nest year and the year after that, the just retired items are still only going to inflate so fast. Existing players would get all the copies they want without any of that "left kidney" effort. Instead, retiring items now for the players now only actually causes inflation and frustration for future players by locking them out. It doesn't really benefit anyone now and harms those who might join in the future. No thanks.
And why do we need items in the "left kidney" range? We've got cheap items, we've got medium items, we've got some fair priced genes, we've got some premium items, we've got expensive items. IMO, FR doesn't need any "soul of the firstborn" items. Instead, why not focus on the premium/expensive tier? Why not aim for more items along the price of coatl scrolls and upper lair expansions? Or along the lines of nicely colored Gen 1s? Having a wide range of high-end-but-obtainable items keeps players engaged. Once they work three months to get the coatl scroll, they can work for another month and get that custom accent, and then branch out into a dream Gen 1 dragon. But I've been working a year on a Light Sprite. In doing so, I don't spend much treasure on anything else, so I get no "ahh, I achieved a goal" satisfaction in the interim. I don't get to add new genes to my dragons (I would love metallic/alloy on a few); I've been resisting the temptation to skim off some of my funds for a hydra. And yet I still probably have at least another year's worth of work to go. That really isn't fun or enjoyable. And I can just imagine if FR retired even more items/had more "left kidney" priced items, new players would just look at things, shake their heads, and log out. Sure, some would stay, but I feel that too many people would find the gap between established players and themselves not worth overcoming. So it isn't good for FR to constantly push items to have sky high price tags. And FR has done a good job at providing us a range of items we can spend our time doing and earning; if players can't find anything...I don't believe it's FR's fault, nor do I believe FR needs to ruin their economy just to cater to those people.
Pings are disabled.
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
Aganna has a great point there. Pretty much every pet site has retired items, and most of those sites are fine with that. I don't know what it is, but the player base for FR seems to be really entitled with this kind of stuff. It's always new players who beg for things to come back, and well would you look at that, now fest items are never going to retire ever again. Thanks a lot for that, retiring items was one of the biggest things we could use to earn cash, even if it's a small amount due to more items being bought (larger playerbase now).
I will not support this, ever. What is retired stays retired, and that's for a reason. If you want one, find a way of earning money to get one. If you can't, guess what? The world goes on. If you work hard enough, plenty of the expensive retired items are achievable; you just have to find your niche in the economy, you best method of making that money. I saw a great example somewhere before: If you can't afford a 10 million dollar mansion, you can't ask them to lower the price for you so you can buy it. There are some things in life you are never going to have, and that's the basic facts.
It's also an insult to the people who worked their butts off to get sprites, or KS items, etc. They put in hard work, blood sweat and tears, and many of them poured in REAL MONEY to get these things. It would be a terrible slap to the face if all of a sudden everyone could get them dirt cheap, which is what would happen if they unretired. If you aren't ready to put in the work, or you aren't capable of it, don't complain that it's unfair. That'll only change things for the worse.
But yeah, I support this. If retiring is a common game function: it's like early-access perks in games, or things like that. You miss out, tough luck, you aren't alone.
Aganna has a great point there. Pretty much every pet site has retired items, and most of those sites are fine with that. I don't know what it is, but the player base for FR seems to be really entitled with this kind of stuff. It's always new players who beg for things to come back, and well would you look at that, now fest items are never going to retire ever again. Thanks a lot for that, retiring items was one of the biggest things we could use to earn cash, even if it's a small amount due to more items being bought (larger playerbase now).
I will not support this, ever. What is retired stays retired, and that's for a reason. If you want one, find a way of earning money to get one. If you can't, guess what? The world goes on. If you work hard enough, plenty of the expensive retired items are achievable; you just have to find your niche in the economy, you best method of making that money. I saw a great example somewhere before: If you can't afford a 10 million dollar mansion, you can't ask them to lower the price for you so you can buy it. There are some things in life you are never going to have, and that's the basic facts.
It's also an insult to the people who worked their butts off to get sprites, or KS items, etc. They put in hard work, blood sweat and tears, and many of them poured in REAL MONEY to get these things. It would be a terrible slap to the face if all of a sudden everyone could get them dirt cheap, which is what would happen if they unretired. If you aren't ready to put in the work, or you aren't capable of it, don't complain that it's unfair. That'll only change things for the worse.
But yeah, I support this. If retiring is a common game function: it's like early-access perks in games, or things like that. You miss out, tough luck, you aren't alone.
[quote name="Jolinar" date=2017-05-31 05:36:28]
Then take it up with everyone else that brought up sprites before me too.
[/quote]
I believe that others mentioned them as an example of the retirement, while your post talks about them exclusively so I got the feeling that you believe the sprites are returning as well (="I don't support retirement of the currently cycled items because I want more sprites in the circulation", but the status of bears and crowns doesn't affect the sprites at all). If I was mistaken, apologies. There are a lot of people who are confused regarding the status of the items, thinking that acolytes are cycled or sprites are returning in the Joxar box, so I thought to clarify it in case there is some misunderstanding here :3
Jolinar wrote on 2017-05-31:
Then take it up with everyone else that brought up sprites before me too.
I believe that others mentioned them as an example of the retirement, while your post talks about them exclusively so I got the feeling that you believe the sprites are returning as well (="I don't support retirement of the currently cycled items because I want more sprites in the circulation", but the status of bears and crowns doesn't affect the sprites at all). If I was mistaken, apologies. There are a lot of people who are confused regarding the status of the items, thinking that acolytes are cycled or sprites are returning in the Joxar box, so I thought to clarify it in case there is some misunderstanding here :3
I am leaving this discussion because I noticed one problem that I don't see how to solve - you apparently consider retired items a "left kidney", must-have things; I consider some of them "goals to work to" and some as a luxury items I cannot get unless I sell all other things that I want. That's why my saving to a Light sprite is fluid and I buy other things that I want interim.
Condensed, my thoughts were that new "retired, limited items" would be nice achievable goals for future newbies to work to, like I enjoyed as a new player saving up for my first sprite.
In addition, I feel like this will soon unravel into "unretire boolean" thing therefore I am leaving before that happens. Have fun!
I am leaving this discussion because I noticed one problem that I don't see how to solve - you apparently consider retired items a "left kidney", must-have things; I consider some of them "goals to work to" and some as a luxury items I cannot get unless I sell all other things that I want. That's why my saving to a Light sprite is fluid and I buy other things that I want interim.
Condensed, my thoughts were that new "retired, limited items" would be nice achievable goals for future newbies to work to, like I enjoyed as a new player saving up for my first sprite.
In addition, I feel like this will soon unravel into "unretire boolean" thing therefore I am leaving before that happens. Have fun!
One of the major issues here is that there just aren't enough highly valuable and desirable items to go around right now. Saving up a range of exclusive, hard-to-find releases that slowly appreciate in value is an important part of any virtual economy. If FR ever finds a way to feed more of these items into the site *without* retiring them, great, but festival familiars have until now filled that role and there isn't a sufficient number of sought-after familiars to take their place.
Also, rebuttal to what somebody suggested earlier: old festival familiars didn't appreciate in value the moment they came out, but I remember selling a bear in the AH for >70G only a few months? a month? after its festival. Let's not exaggerate how long it took for a user to profit from them.
One of the major issues here is that there just aren't enough highly valuable and desirable items to go around right now. Saving up a range of exclusive, hard-to-find releases that slowly appreciate in value is an important part of any virtual economy. If FR ever finds a way to feed more of these items into the site *without* retiring them, great, but festival familiars have until now filled that role and there isn't a sufficient number of sought-after familiars to take their place.
Also, rebuttal to what somebody suggested earlier: old festival familiars didn't appreciate in value the moment they came out, but I remember selling a bear in the AH for >70G only a few months? a month? after its festival. Let's not exaggerate how long it took for a user to profit from them.
If the suggestion "retire everything" came up often, I think I would support it every time. This isn't necessarily "retire everything," but it's close enough.
I'm just not pleased with the artificial disparity the staff has created between the holiday items of different years. I don't like the unequal treatment of the userbase dependent on what year they joined. I'd rather the staff treat all of their users equally. If they don't want to unretire items that the first years have to preserve the value of their items, then why are they not giving the same courtesy to everyone? And if they want to help out the people who will join in the future by making past holiday items available to them, too, then why are they not doing what they say they're doing?
I'd like to see every holiday item, forward and backward, retire. That's it. Mistakes of trying to cycle things are in the past and they no longer cycle. Clean-slate the thing and move forward. No looking back.
But, you know what? Whatever you decide for your holiday item, admins, I'm cool. Just pick something. Something. For everything.
If the suggestion "retire everything" came up often, I think I would support it every time. This isn't necessarily "retire everything," but it's close enough.
I'm just not pleased with the artificial disparity the staff has created between the holiday items of different years. I don't like the unequal treatment of the userbase dependent on what year they joined. I'd rather the staff treat all of their users equally. If they don't want to unretire items that the first years have to preserve the value of their items, then why are they not giving the same courtesy to everyone? And if they want to help out the people who will join in the future by making past holiday items available to them, too, then why are they not doing what they say they're doing?
I'd like to see every holiday item, forward and backward, retire. That's it. Mistakes of trying to cycle things are in the past and they no longer cycle. Clean-slate the thing and move forward. No looking back.
But, you know what? Whatever you decide for your holiday item, admins, I'm cool. Just pick something. Something. For everything.
[quote name="Almedha" date=2017-05-31 08:32:57]
I'm just not pleased with the artificial disparity the staff has created between the holiday items of different years. I don't like the unequal treatment of the userbase dependent on what year they joined. I'd rather the staff treat all of their users equally. If they don't want to unretire items that the first years have to preserve the value of their items, then why are they not giving the same courtesy to everyone? And if they want to help out the people who will join in the future by making past holiday items available to them, too, then why are they not doing what they say they're doing?
[/quote]
This is exactly how I feel about it. I realize that [b]nothing[/b] will ever come close to the prices of the sprites because the user base has grown since the first festivals. The number of items during festivals when there are more users has obviously grown and are already more easily accessible than those from the first festival so why do they need to keep them unretired?
[quote name= "Undel" date= 2016-06-15]Flight Rising is entering its third year online. With each registration window, new players are welcomed onto the site. This is wonderful! However, with each month the site is online, 1 familiar, 2 apparel items, and 14 skins enter and leave circulation with the holidays alone. As time progresses, it becomes more and more difficult for new players to work on their collections or obtain older items. A player that joins our 5th year will not find that there's 100 items that will be forever out of reach, but over a thousand. [/quote]
While this is wonderful for the newer players it sort of makes it feel like only the [i]really[/i] old or the newer players are given priority with Joxar's boxes. The older players don't have to worry about their first year items losing value and the newer players have the chance to collect the items that they missed. For the players that are in the middle of this spectrum it simply means that their items will never become highly sought after and valuable. I'm not saying things need to get as high as the sprites, heavens no. But please. At least give this "middle" user base the chance to have items become valuable.
Everyone who collected the bears know the feeling of opening a strange chest and seeing [i]another[/i] bear. It makes you go "why even bother" or "what's the point" if there's always a chance (and this is a [i]high[/i] chance if a user has been active and collected festival items) that you can get items that you already have, even if it's a recolor. I personally feel like a recolor is even worse.
I will always support retiring items. In my mind the fact that the first festival items are retired and will never(most-likely) recycle shows that the staff already made a choice about festival items. [i]They were suppose to retire at the end of their festival. [/i] The fact that the staff has chosen not to include them in the Joxar's box shows that the staff realize that they hecked up.
Almedha wrote on 2017-05-31:
I'm just not pleased with the artificial disparity the staff has created between the holiday items of different years. I don't like the unequal treatment of the userbase dependent on what year they joined. I'd rather the staff treat all of their users equally. If they don't want to unretire items that the first years have to preserve the value of their items, then why are they not giving the same courtesy to everyone? And if they want to help out the people who will join in the future by making past holiday items available to them, too, then why are they not doing what they say they're doing?
This is exactly how I feel about it. I realize that
nothing will ever come close to the prices of the sprites because the user base has grown since the first festivals. The number of items during festivals when there are more users has obviously grown and are already more easily accessible than those from the first festival so why do they need to keep them unretired?
Undel wrote on 2016-06-15:
Flight Rising is entering its third year online. With each registration window, new players are welcomed onto the site. This is wonderful! However, with each month the site is online, 1 familiar, 2 apparel items, and 14 skins enter and leave circulation with the holidays alone. As time progresses, it becomes more and more difficult for new players to work on their collections or obtain older items. A player that joins our 5th year will not find that there's 100 items that will be forever out of reach, but over a thousand.
While this is wonderful for the newer players it sort of makes it feel like only the
really old or the newer players are given priority with Joxar's boxes. The older players don't have to worry about their first year items losing value and the newer players have the chance to collect the items that they missed. For the players that are in the middle of this spectrum it simply means that their items will never become highly sought after and valuable. I'm not saying things need to get as high as the sprites, heavens no. But please. At least give this "middle" user base the chance to have items become valuable.
Everyone who collected the bears know the feeling of opening a strange chest and seeing
another bear. It makes you go "why even bother" or "what's the point" if there's always a chance (and this is a
high chance if a user has been active and collected festival items) that you can get items that you already have, even if it's a recolor. I personally feel like a recolor is even worse.
I will always support retiring items. In my mind the fact that the first festival items are retired and will never(most-likely) recycle shows that the staff already made a choice about festival items.
They were suppose to retire at the end of their festival. The fact that the staff has chosen not to include them in the Joxar's box shows that the staff realize that they hecked up.
