Flight Rising Discussion

I'm going to get torn apart for this and that's fine.

But let me say beforehand that yes, the outcome of a story needs (in general) to eventually not have the evil side win. Playing the evil side is too niche for a game like this which is looking for (and has) general appeal, however much it fits the dragon motif.

So it did need to happen one way or another that somehow the side we play is not territory-grabbing scum buckets who don't respect other sentient life.

I just don't like it being a retcon. And this is not because it's a retcon and retcon is bad and I just hate retcon because I'm an octopus who hasn't thought about it.

I don't like it because it gives the impression that the real-world issues at play can't be solved fairly without a time-machine. Maybe they actually can't but it's still depressing. So I am now a little bit depressed in a breeding sim I love.

...And I think it's okay to be selfishly upset that something is depressing, if that something is a game designed to be enjoyed.

It's completely fine to be upset that something changed when you didn't want it to!

Inferring that a game aimed at kids is making social commentary by realising that their story echoed ongoing real life trauma for some people and changing it? That's a massive, massive leap.

If FR was serious literature about the topic of colonisation then sure, implying that it's only fixable with time travel would be depressing. But FR is not about colonisation. It's a dragon game that accidentally wandered into the topic, realised its mistake and backed out. Staff are absolutely not equipped to address the topic in any other way.

[quote name="Vendrus" date="2023-01-12 14:40:24" ] It's completely fine to be upset that something changed when you didn't want it to![/quote] I wanted it to change. The way it did just rubs me the wrong way. [quote name="Vendrus" date="2023-01-12 14:40:24" ]Inferring that a game aimed at kids is making social commentary by realising that their story echoed ongoing real life trauma for some people and changing it? That's a massive, massive leap.[/quote] Not changing, erasing. Because nobody whose kind did something as bad as territory-grabbing can ever actually be a good guy. I don't particularly think FR is aimed at kids. But if it is, maybe instead of erasing that aspect of what dragons are, show them changing and repairing that damage as a model for how children can also participate in what it means to be good, even if your kind has done bad. You know, if that's possible. If that's not possible then it needed to be a retcon, but that's the depressing part. There's also trauma from when your ancestors did a bad and you're just stuck with that, and one of your favourite games at least seems to be saying, no, you can't fix it or make it better in any way. It's not equal to the trauma others face, but frankly it still hurts.

FR is definitely aimed at kids. It attracts an older audience as well, primarily because of their history with other pet sites, but it is a teen site.

FR is still not equipped to address colonisation, even repair of it, in an accurate and sensitive way. Even if they employed research and sensitivity readers, the likelihood of being able to address war, colonisation and erasure of culture in an appropriate and widely-accepted way are basically nil.

Frankly, as someone from England, that legacy and our feelings on it are on us and only us. People play this game for fun. They should not have to be subjected to heavy topics that may well be impacting their lives in order to engage with the story line - and that includes 'fix-it' fiction.

Whether it's possible for it to be fixed or not, it is not a topic suitable for a dragon game.

[quote name="Vendrus" date="2023-01-12 15:02:20" ]FR is still not equipped to address colonisation, even repair of it, in an accurate and sensitive way. Even if they employed research and sensitivity readers, the likelihood of being able to address war, colonisation and erasure of culture in an appropriate and widely-accepted way are basically nil.[/quote] This. I agree completely. Now just apply that to this being a part of my life I can't retcon away, an issue I face every day, and it becomes, "Yeah you can't help unless you hire a bunch of people specifically for that and even then... yeah not gonna happen." See why it's so incredibly depressing what they did? Media, even that aimed at kids, used to address common issues and at least give us hints as to how to be better people. This is, in contrast, "Nah you're just stuck being evil you just go deal with that 'cause we sure as heck can't. Not helping. Hope ya figure it out on your own."

[quote name="Alkalez" date="2023-01-12 15:05:32" ] i don't know much about it but i don't like it either. [/quote] Basically it used to be in the lore that dragons were at war with the beastclans. They'd kill 'em and take their territory. Dragons did not respect (for example) a harpy as being sentient and equal to a dragon. They just took that out of the lore. Now, dragons were always (exceptions obviously but by and large) nice guys who wouldn't devalue other life like that. I thought about this for months and got more and more depressed because (to me) it sends the message that to be a good guy, your ancestors had to be good guys, too.

If I recall correctly, clans whose lore involves or revolves around the old Beastclan lore are at no risk of penalization. So if you'd like to continue following the old lore in your own clan lore and write an ending where things are changed naturally, you won't be punished for that.

There wasn't really a good way to go about it, they just did what they could. Changing canon lore years into the game is a huge decision, and it was going to be polarizing, no matter how they did it. Even ignoring the colonization issue, having your "main characters" be genuinely bad people is just a bad decision for a game like this. It had to change, and their options were either to sit down and try and figure out a solution that wouldn't come off as super condescending/come off as just trying to retcon a nasty part of their lore, or just do away with it entirely and start from scratch.

@Aliandrin if it helps, there does seem to be a Maren vs. Dragon conflict based on the Undertide story where colorful, shallow-dwelling Maren expressed hate over the thought of talking to dragons and then swam away asap when Guardians got near. This is purely speculative but it seems the retcon was somewhat decided early on because on the wording of this post in [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/frd/3172067/3#post_52345889]September[/url]: [quote name="Aequorin" date="2022-09-28 10:13:21"]Hello everyone. I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread, but leave it up. It's locked because there's simply no way to discuss this specific concern and feedback without discussing the very real political and religious systems, institutions, and real-world history being referenced. The thread is staying up and visible because the feedback is valid and valuable. I can't share much right now because this is an ongoing team discussion. What I can share with you today is that these parallels were never our original intent, but regardless of our intent—we do see what many of you see and have called out over the years. The delay between conflict introduction and conflict resolution was never meant to take this long. We made a mistake tying it to Adventure Mode, which has since suffered repeated delays and left this storyline with uncomfortable parallels dangling for too long. We regret this and we apologize. As some of you have noted in this thread, throughout more recent lore installments, we're guiding Dragons vs Beastclans to a more level conflict, where alliances can be formed and groups work together for a better Sornieth. This is an ongoing team discussion and reflection internally right now, and we hope to give you an update and proper explanation for all of you by the end of 2022. Thank you all for your valuable feedback on this issue.[/quote] Since Undertides came out a few weeks before the Harpy Lore update, there's a good chance that Beastclan/Dragon conflict does exist but it's taken on a different tone and format. If I had to guess, based on the story's mention of a "Lost School", and the very contrasting behavior between two different types of Maren, there's a new big mystery on what exactly caused the two to be separated in the first place and why they have such different attitudes towards dragons.