Real-life goats (and sheep) have eyes that rotate in their sockets to allow the pupil to remain horizonal when grazing:
[img]https://i.imgur.com/7kRLZJO.png[/img]
(Image from [url=https://phys.org/news/2015-08-pupil-linked-animals-ecological-niche.html]this article[/url])
But dragons with goat eyes don't do this:
[img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=171&bodygene=19&breed=7&element=10&eyetype=9&gender=0&tert=116&tertgene=12&winggene=19&wings=86&auth=2f43e6a9d4c9c7585d97257eb348e38ee3836473&dummyext=prev.png[/img]
[img]http://flightrising.com/dgen/preview/dragon?age=0&body=122&bodygene=22&breed=1&element=11&eyetype=9&gender=0&tert=56&tertgene=15&winggene=24&wings=166&auth=d850ea02c63db72bd3736d62929726db566fc42c&dummyext=prev.png[/img]
Do you think they should? I think it'd make them look more natural.
Real-life goats (and sheep) have eyes that rotate in their sockets to allow the pupil to remain horizonal when grazing:
(Image from
this article)
But dragons with goat eyes don't do this:
Do you think they should? I think it'd make them look more natural.
Nope, i like it the way it is.
Nope, i like it the way it is.
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I don't really care. FR is a "fantasy" game anyways, so things doesnt have to be as realistic as possible
I don't really care. FR is a "fantasy" game anyways, so things doesnt have to be as realistic as possible
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Quid
I think it would have looked to weird tbh. We don't know if the genetic changes for goat eyes changed the eye muscles/skull anatomy to allow the eye to rotate. The only change may have just been a horizontal pupil.
Look at predators with horizontal pupils. Ferrets and mongoose, separated by level of suborder (caniformia and feliformia respectively) both have horizontal pupils and neither have them rotate in their sockets.
The rotation is needed for prey, who spend large amounts of time with their heads down grazing. Predators wouldn't have ever needed to evolve that, since their heads are usually level with the ground while hunting. Our dragons are predators, so the rotation is equally as unnecessary.
Edit* Exception being Tundras, since they canonically graze and don't eat meat. You could argue their eyes would need to rotate, but my guess is they don't here due to art constraints, it's easier to see the pupil if it goes across the eye at the longest point.
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Quid
I think it would have looked to weird tbh. We don't know if the genetic changes for goat eyes changed the eye muscles/skull anatomy to allow the eye to rotate. The only change may have just been a horizontal pupil.
Look at predators with horizontal pupils. Ferrets and mongoose, separated by level of suborder (caniformia and feliformia respectively) both have horizontal pupils and neither have them rotate in their sockets.
The rotation is needed for prey, who spend large amounts of time with their heads down grazing. Predators wouldn't have ever needed to evolve that, since their heads are usually level with the ground while hunting. Our dragons are predators, so the rotation is equally as unnecessary.
Edit* Exception being Tundras, since they canonically graze and don't eat meat. You could argue their eyes would need to rotate, but my guess is they don't here due to art constraints, it's easier to see the pupil if it goes across the eye at the longest point.
Nobody wants to tell you why discipline is so important. Discipline is the strongest form of self-love. It is ignoring current pleasures for bigger rewards to come. It's loving yourself enough to give yourself everything you've ever wanted.
I like it how it is (also I haven't gotten any goat eyes yet. Hopefully they don't pop up in my triple basic nest)
I like it how it is (also I haven't gotten any goat eyes yet. Hopefully they don't pop up in my triple basic nest)
I have no opinion on the dragon eyes, but I didn't know that about goats and I think that's pretty dope
I have no opinion on the dragon eyes, but I didn't know that about goats and I think that's pretty dope
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LaskaEira Fascinating, I didn't know (some?) mustelids had horizontal pupils! I'm more familiar with carnivores having vertically slit eyes. I wonder why mustelids are the exception? I can see why they may not need the rotating adaptation being a predator.
Other reasons as to why the FR team may not have gone with rotating pupils is because of the various dragon eye shapes; sheep and goats have round eyes, which allows a horizontal pupil to fit regardless of orientation. A lot of adult dragons instead have quite narrow eyes, and if the pupil rotated in those it'd end up under the eyelids which would make it hard to see the shape (and also be impractical). (edit: I just noticed your edit which pretty much says the same point as this)
Also, since rotating pupils are the exception in the animal world, I think a lot of people would actually find them odd. I grew up around cows, maybe that's why I have an internalised expectation for them to rotate?
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LaskaEira Fascinating, I didn't know (some?) mustelids had horizontal pupils! I'm more familiar with carnivores having vertically slit eyes. I wonder why mustelids are the exception? I can see why they may not need the rotating adaptation being a predator.
Other reasons as to why the FR team may not have gone with rotating pupils is because of the various dragon eye shapes; sheep and goats have round eyes, which allows a horizontal pupil to fit regardless of orientation. A lot of adult dragons instead have quite narrow eyes, and if the pupil rotated in those it'd end up under the eyelids which would make it hard to see the shape (and also be impractical). (edit: I just noticed your edit which pretty much says the same point as this)
Also, since rotating pupils are the exception in the animal world, I think a lot of people would actually find them odd. I grew up around cows, maybe that's why I have an internalised expectation for them to rotate?
How do goats'/sheep's eyes rotate? Wouldn't that put a twist in the optic nerve?
How do goats'/sheep's eyes rotate? Wouldn't that put a twist in the optic nerve?
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LuminAgricola They can only rotate up to about 50 degrees, so it wouldn't be too much of a twist.
It also seems like they only rotate when the head's tilted down (to graze) and not if the head's tilted up - since it'd still be advantageous to keep the pupil horizontal when looking up, I assume that's because of physical limitations. (Might be wrong about that last point, looking for a better resource)
Not sure exactly how they rotate or what muscles are used, would have to look that up.
Edit: Apparently it's the superior and inferior oblique muscles that allow for rotation, and humans have these muscles too! However, we mostly use them to prevent the eyes from rotating when we look up or down, as the muscles to make the eyes look up or down are just slightly off centre, so they pull the eye a little bit to the side as well as up/down. Our superior and inferior obliques pull against this slight side movement to stop it from happening.
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LuminAgricola They can only rotate up to about 50 degrees, so it wouldn't be too much of a twist.
It also seems like they only rotate when the head's tilted down (to graze) and not if the head's tilted up - since it'd still be advantageous to keep the pupil horizontal when looking up, I assume that's because of physical limitations. (Might be wrong about that last point, looking for a better resource)
Not sure exactly how they rotate or what muscles are used, would have to look that up.
Edit: Apparently it's the superior and inferior oblique muscles that allow for rotation, and humans have these muscles too! However, we mostly use them to prevent the eyes from rotating when we look up or down, as the muscles to make the eyes look up or down are just slightly off centre, so they pull the eye a little bit to the side as well as up/down. Our superior and inferior obliques pull against this slight side movement to stop it from happening.
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Quid
It's hard to tell which mustelids have it since most have very dark eyes. First time I noticed it in my ferrets I found it very unsettling! Other mustelids that seem to have them would be the domestic ferret ancestor, the european polecat, and the black footed ferret.
They've evolved independently in many animals like sheep, some mustelids, mongoose, frogs, and snakes! The general consensus is that for the predators that have them, they're also prey themselves, and benefit from this extremely wide field of vision. That would explain why larger mustelids like wolverines have round pupils. They're also
nocturnal/crepuscular* and forage rather than ambush hunt, so the lost of some sharpness in their vision isn't going to impact them much.
Makes me wonder if any of the artists have any biology/ecology background? It feels like such a necessary thing for my own art!
*wrong about that. Diurnal animals have them too for multifocal lenses.
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Quid
It's hard to tell which mustelids have it since most have very dark eyes. First time I noticed it in my ferrets I found it very unsettling! Other mustelids that seem to have them would be the domestic ferret ancestor, the european polecat, and the black footed ferret.
They've evolved independently in many animals like sheep, some mustelids, mongoose, frogs, and snakes! The general consensus is that for the predators that have them, they're also prey themselves, and benefit from this extremely wide field of vision. That would explain why larger mustelids like wolverines have round pupils. They're also
nocturnal/crepuscular* and forage rather than ambush hunt, so the lost of some sharpness in their vision isn't going to impact them much.
Makes me wonder if any of the artists have any biology/ecology background? It feels like such a necessary thing for my own art!
*wrong about that. Diurnal animals have them too for multifocal lenses.
Nobody wants to tell you why discipline is so important. Discipline is the strongest form of self-love. It is ignoring current pleasures for bigger rewards to come. It's loving yourself enough to give yourself everything you've ever wanted.
