Dragon Change History Tab | Suggestions

[quote name="Parad0xxy" date="2021-05-05 01:07:40" ] I actually adore this idea, and it would be such a great way to restore a lot of the challenge-motivated playstyle!! Not horribly unlike the G1 market, where you can attain the same dragon in an easier way, but for those who care, there's proof that you didn't! I honestly also think it would be fine for existing dragons who have no way of recording this info to just be left "unknown". I also agree with the suggestion to use this as a way to remove the Roundsey identifier from the family tree - just push it into that tab. Much tidier! [/quote] Exactly yeah! My original intentions behind this post were simply to try and slap a bandaid on the whole eye vial update but the more replies I read the more I realize the other ways this update could be used. Especially in creating a new goal for some players to reach for. Would also make dragons before the update fun/valuable like low ID dragons because having an "unknown" history could be something very appealing.

RiptailShredfang

577

391

1165

692

May 05, 2021 01:50:37

Parad0xxy wrote on 2021-05-05 01:07:40:

I actually adore this idea, and it would be such a great way to restore a lot of the challenge-motivated playstyle!! Not horribly unlike the G1 market, where you can attain the same dragon in an easier way, but for those who care, there's proof that you didn't! I honestly also think it would be fine for existing dragons who have no way of recording this info to just be left "unknown". I also agree with the suggestion to use this as a way to remove the Roundsey identifier from the family tree - just push it into that tab. Much tidier!

Exactly yeah! My original intentions behind this post were simply to try and slap a bandaid on the whole eye vial update but the more replies I read the more I realize the other ways this update could be used. Especially in creating a new goal for some players to reach for. Would also make dragons before the update fun/valuable like low ID dragons because having an "unknown" history could be something very appealing.

Please take a look at my HibDen for forum games! I store a lot of my dragons there cause I don't have space! Tabs I don't want used say so in tab description.

[quote name="Crystalitar" date="2021-05-05 00:58:27" ] [quote name="Spy" date="2021-05-04 18:06:37" ] I think detailed logs would be highly troublesome for both server space costs and database speeds. I also don't personally care for the idea of storing detailed birth information simply because of how difficult if not impossible it would be to find accurate information for existing dragons (it's highly improbable that FR has kept enough DB backups or backed up frequently enough per day to get accurate information for [i]all[/i] dragons) and having inaccurate information on my existing permas would bother me. Plus, if the site kept track of the number of scattersight/scatterscroll uses on a dragon you'd be able to infer just by looking at the stats that the dragon wasn't born with their current colors/eyes. I could get behind the stats version of this suggestion. In fact, I'd personally love to be able to see stats like 'times bred,' 'enemies defeated', 'times fainted,' or 'healing done' for each individual dragon. I do have to wonder how many enemies my progen has chewed through by now. [emoji=ridgeback tongue size=1] [/quote] I think thats the point of the history tab. To see if a dragon wasnt born with the current genes or eyes or breed. Wich i find the main interesting part about this because i want to see what the dragon went through and how much effort was put into it. A no for me on stats of how many x times defeated or healing. If they do this, let that be part of the coli rework or something. Times bred can be found by checking offspring. [/quote] I am looking at this mostly from the programmer side. Looking at the absolutely massive number of dragons, I'm leaning towards what I think would be both the easiest to implement and the least impactful towards site performance/storage space costs. Numerical stats could be stored simply by expanding the number of values kept track of in the dragons table. This is how silhouette scrolls were added; it's reasonable to assume they added a boolean to all dragons with a default value of 'false' that is changed to 'true' when a silhouette scroll is applied. A separate value then keeps track of whether or not the silhouette scroll's effect is toggled on/off so the correct artwork is generated without affecting the dragon's "gender" value used for breeding. It is absolutely possible to implement detailed logs (see: clan activity for something similar that we as users get to see), it's just that logs would require creating a completely new table and would have an absolutely massive number of entries compared to both the clan activity (~577000 accounts vs nearing 7 million dragons) and the dragons table itself (assuming that every dragon born has 1 entry minimum for their birth genes/colors/eyes, and additional entries for every scroll applied and scatter item used). The history tab would also likely have to be a completely separate page with pagination and a limited number of entries displayed per page because displaying a dragon's full history on the profile would crush the database in cases where dragons were scattered hundreds of times and/or had their genes changed repeatedly. I also just personally enjoy the prior suggestion of concise stats, and we can agree to disagree about what we personally like. If they did add detailed logs I wouldn't be mad about it since it would mean the site is healthy enough to have the resources to add it as a feature without cost to performance or development of other areas of the site. I have dragons with 100+ offspring at this point. I have to check every single individual hatchling, record the date born (if they aren't exalted, because while that information still exists in the DB it's not displayed to users anymore, then I have to start comparing IDs), and then count how many different dates & id ranges there are to see how many times the dragon has nested. It is an utter pain to determine this if you haven't been keeping track of every single breeding manually from the beginning. Plus, isn't something like this [i]exactly[/i] why people want scatter and gene history to be kept track of? Saying 'keep track of it manually in the bio' is antithetical to this thread.

Spy

606

528

952

1130

May 05, 2021 01:59:41

Crystalitar wrote on 2021-05-05 00:58:27:

Spy wrote on 2021-05-04 18:06:37:

I think detailed logs would be highly troublesome for both server space costs and database speeds. I also don't personally care for the idea of storing detailed birth information simply because of how difficult if not impossible it would be to find accurate information for existing dragons (it's highly improbable that FR has kept enough DB backups or backed up frequently enough per day to get accurate information for all dragons) and having inaccurate information on my existing permas would bother me. Plus, if the site kept track of the number of scattersight/scatterscroll uses on a dragon you'd be able to infer just by looking at the stats that the dragon wasn't born with their current colors/eyes.

I could get behind the stats version of this suggestion. In fact, I'd personally love to be able to see stats like 'times bred,' 'enemies defeated', 'times fainted,' or 'healing done' for each individual dragon. I do have to wonder how many enemies my progen has chewed through by now.

I think thats the point of the history tab. To see if a dragon wasnt born with the current genes or eyes or breed. Wich i find the main interesting part about this because i want to see what the dragon went through and how much effort was put into it.

A no for me on stats of how many x times defeated or healing.
If they do this, let that be part of the coli rework or something.

Times bred can be found by checking offspring.

I am looking at this mostly from the programmer side. Looking at the absolutely massive number of dragons, I'm leaning towards what I think would be both the easiest to implement and the least impactful towards site performance/storage space costs. Numerical stats could be stored simply by expanding the number of values kept track of in the dragons table. This is how silhouette scrolls were added; it's reasonable to assume they added a boolean to all dragons with a default value of 'false' that is changed to 'true' when a silhouette scroll is applied. A separate value then keeps track of whether or not the silhouette scroll's effect is toggled on/off so the correct artwork is generated without affecting the dragon's "gender" value used for breeding.

It is absolutely possible to implement detailed logs (see: clan activity for something similar that we as users get to see), it's just that logs would require creating a completely new table and would have an absolutely massive number of entries compared to both the clan activity (~577000 accounts vs nearing 7 million dragons) and the dragons table itself (assuming that every dragon born has 1 entry minimum for their birth genes/colors/eyes, and additional entries for every scroll applied and scatter item used). The history tab would also likely have to be a completely separate page with pagination and a limited number of entries displayed per page because displaying a dragon's full history on the profile would crush the database in cases where dragons were scattered hundreds of times and/or had their genes changed repeatedly.

I also just personally enjoy the prior suggestion of concise stats, and we can agree to disagree about what we personally like. If they did add detailed logs I wouldn't be mad about it since it would mean the site is healthy enough to have the resources to add it as a feature without cost to performance or development of other areas of the site.

I have dragons with 100+ offspring at this point. I have to check every single individual hatchling, record the date born (if they aren't exalted, because while that information still exists in the DB it's not displayed to users anymore, then I have to start comparing IDs), and then count how many different dates & id ranges there are to see how many times the dragon has nested. It is an utter pain to determine this if you haven't been keeping track of every single breeding manually from the beginning. Plus, isn't something like this exactly why people want scatter and gene history to be kept track of? Saying 'keep track of it manually in the bio' is antithetical to this thread.

Last edited on May 05, 2021 07:28:54 by Spy

@Spy You mention a good part about the breeding offspring, something i overlooked (just a brainfart lol)

So yeah, i agree now

---
As for keeping the history log as small as possible, Scatter sights and Tri color scatters would not give result in the history tab, but optimally a record how many times that had been applied.

In this same vein, One would not have to log the original state (breed, eye, colors or genes) of the dragon and only the changes. So If a gene was changed and wich.

It is then save to assume a dragon was how it was with no history tab, and then also know if a dragon was born with something else (unknown) before a tert ghost was applied.

So there would be no "entries" on how a dragon's complete look was. More what changes been applied. A single line added to the history tab that get's given whenever a scrol or vial get's used.

Crystalitar

374

428

777

3191

May 05, 2021 03:30:48

@Spy You mention a good part about the breeding offspring, something i overlooked (just a brainfart lol)

So yeah, i agree now

---
As for keeping the history log as small as possible, Scatter sights and Tri color scatters would not give result in the history tab, but optimally a record how many times that had been applied.

In this same vein, One would not have to log the original state (breed, eye, colors or genes) of the dragon and only the changes. So If a gene was changed and wich.

It is then save to assume a dragon was how it was with no history tab, and then also know if a dragon was born with something else (unknown) before a tert ghost was applied.

So there would be no "entries" on how a dragon's complete look was. More what changes been applied. A single line added to the history tab that get's given whenever a scrol or vial get's used.

[/center]

Sorry to be bouncing around so much, but the more I ruminate on this, the more I think that this would actually work really well without having to compromise on the quality of logs if it was made into a separate page that you could visit. I probably should've waited a bit longer before posting my thoughts. [emoji=ridgeback sad size=1] I don't doubt FR [i]could[/i] store lots and lots of logs for every single dragon if they wanted to, but I just don't think it's feasible for it to be a tab on the profile without hurting site performance (which is what I've mostly been hesitant about in my previous posts, as I really think that you should only load logs when people are specifically looking for them. If it's ignored by half of the player base but still fetched every time a profile is loaded... not good for performance). I won't go into how I think the technical aspects of it would work unless asked (mostly because, let's be honest, I don't know exactly what FR's backend looks like and I don't think anybody cares to skim past my long programming blabbing to get to the good stuff). --------------- Here are the mockups: [b]An icon to access the page is added to the dragon profile next to the scene icon (click for bigger):[/b] [url=https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839496221920067584/mockup1.png][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839496221920067584/mockup1.png[/img][/url] It always shows for owners and only shows for visitors if the dragon's owner has enabled sharing. [b]Mockup of the page made via editing the clan activity page with inspect element (click for full):[/b] [url=https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839487399116800060/mockup2.png][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839487399116800060/mockup2.png[/img][/url]15 log entries display per page to minimize impact on the DB if a dragon has been scattered hundreds of times. A compromise with people wanting stats by including some kind of stats block as well. (Enemies defeated is there because I couldn't think of anything better and it's something I'd love to see tracked on a per-dragon basis.) [b]By default each dragon gets a birthday event noting their breed, colors, and eye type:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839489033096790056/mockup5.png[/img] [b]A birthday event set to the dragon's actual birthday could be added for all existing non-exalted dragons, all dragons still within the 2 week restoration time limit, and all progens:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839488998992904212/mockup4.png[/img] Instead of physical info on hatch due to it being unavailable, there could be some kind of filler message (I'm sure someone else could come up with a better message). Long-exalted dragons that aren't progens can be skipped to save storage space because they're never getting unexalted anyways. Logs for exalted dragons over the restoration time limit could also be deleted every so often to save storage space. [b]Finally, as per others' suggestions, sharing must be opted in in per-dragon:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839485626512703558/mockup3.png[/img] ...Or maybe for convenience there could instead be a global account setting (public or private) with a per-dragon override? Idk. If you aren't interested in this feature, you'd never even have to look at it or make it public for other players to see; consequently, those dragon logs would exist [i]but[/i] would never be unnecessarily fetched. If you like knowing the dragon's history but don't want other players to see it, you as the owner can still view the page whenever you want for your own reference without being forced to share it. This suggestion just keeps kicking around in my brain because you all have great ideas and have made great points, and even if the programmer part of my brain went 'simple stats easy,' I am beginning to see the value and appeal of being able to have nicely detailed logs as part of your dragon's profile. Okay, I think I've blabbed enough for one day, sorry for the giant post lol

Spy

606

528

952

1130

May 05, 2021 06:55:51

Sorry to be bouncing around so much, but the more I ruminate on this, the more I think that this would actually work really well without having to compromise on the quality of logs if it was made into a separate page that you could visit. I probably should've waited a bit longer before posting my thoughts.

I don't doubt FR could store lots and lots of logs for every single dragon if they wanted to, but I just don't think it's feasible for it to be a tab on the profile without hurting site performance (which is what I've mostly been hesitant about in my previous posts, as I really think that you should only load logs when people are specifically looking for them. If it's ignored by half of the player base but still fetched every time a profile is loaded... not good for performance).

I won't go into how I think the technical aspects of it would work unless asked (mostly because, let's be honest, I don't know exactly what FR's backend looks like and I don't think anybody cares to skim past my long programming blabbing to get to the good stuff).

Here are the mockups:

An icon to access the page is added to the dragon profile next to the scene icon (click for bigger):

It always shows for owners and only shows for visitors if the dragon's owner has enabled sharing.

Mockup of the page made via editing the clan activity page with inspect element (click for full):

15 log entries display per page to minimize impact on the DB if a dragon has been scattered hundreds of times. A compromise with people wanting stats by including some kind of stats block as well. (Enemies defeated is there because I couldn't think of anything better and it's something I'd love to see tracked on a per-dragon basis.)

By default each dragon gets a birthday event noting their breed, colors, and eye type:

A birthday event set to the dragon's actual birthday could be added for all existing non-exalted dragons, all dragons still within the 2 week restoration time limit, and all progens:

Instead of physical info on hatch due to it being unavailable, there could be some kind of filler message (I'm sure someone else could come up with a better message). Long-exalted dragons that aren't progens can be skipped to save storage space because they're never getting unexalted anyways. Logs for exalted dragons over the restoration time limit could also be deleted every so often to save storage space.

Finally, as per others' suggestions, sharing must be opted in in per-dragon:

...Or maybe for convenience there could instead be a global account setting (public or private) with a per-dragon override? Idk.

If you aren't interested in this feature, you'd never even have to look at it or make it public for other players to see; consequently, those dragon logs would exist but would never be unnecessarily fetched. If you like knowing the dragon's history but don't want other players to see it, you as the owner can still view the page whenever you want for your own reference without being forced to share it.

This suggestion just keeps kicking around in my brain because you all have great ideas and have made great points, and even if the programmer part of my brain went 'simple stats easy,' I am beginning to see the value and appeal of being able to have nicely detailed logs as part of your dragon's profile.

Okay, I think I've blabbed enough for one day, sorry for the giant post lol

Last edited on May 05, 2021 08:09:21 by Spy

I could support this if it came with the following conditions (sorry if some of this was mentioned before, some of the mechanics are a little confusing) 8la

-Ability to set entire lair to Private
-- It's truly not anyone else's business but my own if my dragons were Born With It or if it's Maybelline

-Ability to set entire lair to opt-out of history recording, but can set specific dragons to opt in

-If purchasing a "Used Dragon", we should have some ability to wipe the previous history recorded (maybe by clicking opt-out on it then opting back in?)
--I don't care what someone else did with a dragon before I got it. However there might be times when I do want to know what I did with it because maybe it's a birthday scatter project or something, so for that I'd want a clean slate.

Edit:
This is a super late edit but I have been pondering this some more and would like to emphasize I would only support this if history was 100% removable/deletable, etc. Absolutely no "secret saving" in the background for any reason.

But honestly at the end of the day I don't know if this would be worth it at all with the many restrictions required to make it satisfactory enough for most, and the fact that people would still use it in regards to dragon value is....ehhhhh. (I am having visions of people potentially treating this like some kind of pedigree. Oh you don't have papers for your dragon? uwu must be hiding something) I would really rather just keep the way it currently is and use the bio box if you really care about a particular dragon all that much

Corvarrow

666

445

1204

3560

May 05, 2021 07:45:36

I could support this if it came with the following conditions (sorry if some of this was mentioned before, some of the mechanics are a little confusing) 8la

-Ability to set entire lair to Private
-- It's truly not anyone else's business but my own if my dragons were Born With It or if it's Maybelline

-Ability to set entire lair to opt-out of history recording, but can set specific dragons to opt in

-If purchasing a "Used Dragon", we should have some ability to wipe the previous history recorded (maybe by clicking opt-out on it then opting back in?)
--I don't care what someone else did with a dragon before I got it. However there might be times when I do want to know what I did with it because maybe it's a birthday scatter project or something, so for that I'd want a clean slate.

Edit:
This is a super late edit but I have been pondering this some more and would like to emphasize I would only support this if history was 100% removable/deletable, etc. Absolutely no "secret saving" in the background for any reason.

But honestly at the end of the day I don't know if this would be worth it at all with the many restrictions required to make it satisfactory enough for most, and the fact that people would still use it in regards to dragon value is....ehhhhh. (I am having visions of people potentially treating this like some kind of pedigree. Oh you don't have papers for your dragon? uwu must be hiding something) I would really rather just keep the way it currently is and use the bio box if you really care about a particular dragon all that much

Last edited on May 22, 2021 16:38:10 by Corvarrow

Support. I like this a lot, it would be really interesting to see the full history of an old dragon. I don't even remember how or when I've gened my dragons and sometimes I wish I did!

Otterbeans

621

185

1198

2553

May 05, 2021 08:31:15

Support. I like this a lot, it would be really interesting to see the full history of an old dragon. I don't even remember how or when I've gened my dragons and sometimes I wish I did!

[quote name="Spy" date="2021-05-05 06:55:51" ] Sorry to be bouncing around so much, but the more I ruminate on this, the more I think that this would actually work really well without having to compromise on the quality of logs if it was made into a separate page that you could visit. I probably should've waited a bit longer before posting my thoughts. [emoji=ridgeback sad size=1] I don't doubt FR [i]could[/i] store lots and lots of logs for every single dragon if they wanted to, but I just don't think it's feasible for it to be a tab on the profile without hurting site performance (which is what I've mostly been hesitant about in my previous posts, as I really think that you should only load logs when people are specifically looking for them. If it's ignored by half of the player base but still fetched every time a profile is loaded... not good for performance). I won't go into how I think the technical aspects of it would work unless asked (mostly because, let's be honest, I don't know exactly what FR's backend looks like and I don't think anybody cares to skim past my long programming blabbing to get to the good stuff). --------------- Here are the mockups: [b]An icon to access the page is added to the dragon profile next to the scene icon (click for bigger):[/b] [url=https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839496221920067584/mockup1.png][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839496221920067584/mockup1.png[/img][/url] It always shows for owners and only shows for visitors if the dragon's owner has enabled sharing. [b]Mockup of the page made via editing the clan activity page with inspect element (click for full):[/b] [url=https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839487399116800060/mockup2.png][img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839487399116800060/mockup2.png[/img][/url]15 log entries display per page to minimize impact on the DB if a dragon has been scattered hundreds of times. A compromise with people wanting stats by including some kind of stats block as well. (Enemies defeated is there because I couldn't think of anything better and it's something I'd love to see tracked on a per-dragon basis.) [b]By default each dragon gets a birthday event noting their breed, colors, and eye type:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839489033096790056/mockup5.png[/img] [b]A birthday event set to the dragon's actual birthday could be added for all existing non-exalted dragons, all dragons still within the 2 week restoration time limit, and all progens:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839488998992904212/mockup4.png[/img] Instead of physical info on hatch due to it being unavailable, there could be some kind of filler message (I'm sure someone else could come up with a better message). Long-exalted dragons that aren't progens can be skipped to save storage space because they're never getting unexalted anyways. Logs for exalted dragons over the restoration time limit could also be deleted every so often to save storage space. [b]Finally, as per others' suggestions, sharing must be opted in in per-dragon:[/b] [img]https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/319912109343244300/839485626512703558/mockup3.png[/img] ...Or maybe for convenience there could instead be a global account setting (public or private) with a per-dragon override? Idk. If you aren't interested in this feature, you'd never even have to look at it or make it public for other players to see; consequently, those dragon logs would exist [i]but[/i] would never be unnecessarily fetched. If you like knowing the dragon's history but don't want other players to see it, you as the owner can still view the page whenever you want for your own reference without being forced to share it. This suggestion just keeps kicking around in my brain because you all have great ideas and have made great points, and even if the programmer part of my brain went 'simple stats easy,' I am beginning to see the value and appeal of being able to have nicely detailed logs as part of your dragon's profile. Okay, I think I've blabbed enough for one day, sorry for the giant post lol [/quote] I love this mockup and I really want the hatch-day notes on my dragons for some reason. (But again, there is probably nowhere on this page a log of the dragon changes stored to even do this which makes me sad. QwQ)

Anjoulas

580

253

1124

4909

May 05, 2021 08:44:31

Spy wrote on 2021-05-05 06:55:51: