Suggestions

This would be fine if it worked ONCE and on unbred dragons. Case closed.

I'm not sure why a pose change scroll keeps being brought up, the Op mentioned nothing about wanting to change the look of their dragons.

If you can tell me how a pose change scroll would help me breed 2 gen 1 unbred males to each other I'd support it, if you can't, please stop saying a pose change scroll is the resolution.

The pose change is being brought up because most people who support it *don't* support being able to breed two dragons who were hatched the same sex. It is as simple as that.

The second reason a pose change is usually brought up is because many people who want a sex change pose actually DO want the other art, because changing the sex of a dragon would change the art. So it doesn't matter whether OP wanted to change the look of the dragons, changing the sex of the dragons already would do that.

A pose change scroll isn't the resolution it is the *compromise* for those who want a specific sex, but don't care about the breeding aspect. Plus a pose change scroll would have a lot more applications as well (such as having 'same sex' breeding pairs in lore, the dragons would still be male/female to the site, but in looks and in lore they could be same sex)

Well I guess if people don't like certain art of the site it's fine, I wouldn't support a pose change scroll simply because I think it's a lot of unneeded effort with no practical use apart from lair aesthetics or lore.

Not supporting dragons who were born the same gender being able to have kids is peoples prerogative I guess.

I still support an expensive item to totally change the gender, it has a lot of practical breeding uses, covers all the same things as a pose change scroll, and can also be used more interestingly in lore.

Edit: And just to be clear by expensive I mean it costing 5000+ gems for a gender change scroll, most users would be thinking very carefully about buying it and using it, especially if it was made so the dragon couldn't be sold or traded afterwards, just like a progen. I don't think that would impact much in the way of breeding.

i know i'll get hate, but i support.

@SallyAnn

Thing is that if the restiction is 'has to be unbreed' people are gonna go 'but I want this breed dragon to change gender so it can have THIS partner' which would mess up lineages. There is also the thing that it could very likely mess up the breeding feature by making breeding way easier - as right now to get a fitting partner some form of userinteraction is bound to happen. So it is usually common consens that the dragon would need to be unbreed and become unbreedable too - basically removing all the chance to mess up the linages while opening the tool to switch beck and forth between sexes. Which basically is a glorified pose change scroll.

You can just get a new dragon if your 2 dragons don't fit. Thing is that you restrict yourself to gen ones but don't want the resulting 'problems' - like how players that want to play a 'only what I breed in my lair style' and then complain about having to breed so much because of the inbreeding check.

It is not good for the site if everyone just sits on their dragons waiting for a scroll for this or that to come around - otherwise we soon have a scroll for breeding a dragon to itself where the offspring had the colors +- 5 steps on the colorwheel like someone proposed in chat. People were like 'Great... You just broke the game. by making it possible to keep a minimum of dragons that can rather securely give any combination you want without searching for a partner.'

I'm fairly certain the staff said they won't ever make it possible for 2 same sex dragons to have offspring because they'd have to re-do the entire breeding system for that. I'll see if i can find that statement.

I find the restriction that only unbred dragons can have their sex changed a fair restriction, because then the staff doesn't have to mess with with he coding that's there to for the father and mother dragon.

I saw someone mentioned "cis heteronormativety" but that has really nothing to do with it (Plus I personally think that is a huge load of nonsense anyways) it's just the simple law of nature and biology, while yes there are exceptions to it. The general rule is that within a species only a male and female can produce offspring, it's not "homophobic" or what have you in the slightest, it's just the laws of nature.

I also wonder if those who keep crying for same sex breeding, happen have an issue with surrogacy or adoption or whatever. Like that happens irl too? I'm sure there are people on site who were/are raised by two moms or two dads and they were adopted. If you're going to use the representation card then why not give them some too?

For example i have 2 lovely female imps in my lair that in my lore are a couple Vera and Kabshiel, them both being female means they can't breed. Now it so happens Kabshiel has a male twin Kalaziel. So what can I do? I can put him and Vera on a nest, because the resulting offspring would be exactly be the same as it would be had I been able to breed Vera and Kab. Or since Vera has a twin sister I could Reva and Kal on a nest and lore wise have them act as surrogates and let Vera and Kab adopt the hatchling they have, it's a nice bit of sweet lore.

But even if you don't have twins around you can also try and look for a male/female that is the same as one of the dragons in your same sex couple and voila. Or you can look for a dragon that got the same colors as any of the resulting offspring from that pair, also an option.

Okay I'll end my rant there, if you wish to reply to me about this I'd suggest doing so in a pm on account of not derailing this thread too badly.

[quote name="SallyAnn" date=2017-08-19 07:10:16] Well I guess if people don't like certain art of the site it's fine, I wouldn't support a pose change scroll simply because I think it's a lot of unneeded effort with no practical use apart from lair aesthetics or lore.[/quote] Literally those are the point of the site--aesthetics and lore. I'd like to be able to have some male skydancers and female tundras that weren't completely boring looking with their poses. [quote]it has a lot of practical breeding uses, covers all the same things as a pose change scroll, and can also be used more interestingly in lore.[/quote] Nah. It has *gamebreaking* breeding uses, not practical ones. We don't need to make breeding any easier, so there's no reason to make a scroll that makes breeding easier. And it really *doesn't* cover all the same things as a pose change scroll. (An example: I want two character dragons to breed. The best look for both of them is a male dragon of a certain breed. If I have a pose change scroll, I can have a male and female who can breed, but have them both look "right.") (Another example: I have no male Skydancers because I think the pose is stupid. I'd like some male Skydancers for balance, but a gender change scroll would just give me more female Skydancers, which I already have oodles of.) Trying to code a sex-change scroll would be [i]waaaaaaay[/i] more effort than coding a pose-change scroll. It would require literal rewriting of the breeding system. As for being "used more interestingly in lore" I really don't see it. A pose change scroll could also be considered a gender-change item for lore purposes (ie: transgender dragons, etc). Considering that there is literally no item in place that actually affects breeding abilities whatsoever, adding even one would [i]drastically[/i] effect them. We don't need this.

@Flipupper

Just want to point out that most other sites I know that have the ability to change sex also have MUCH more restricted breeding. Many of them also have much easier ways to get rid of unwanted pets.

Gryffs don't have any assigned sex and they can literally breed with every other gryff on site. However, they also can only have one chick at a time, and must be fully fed and at 100% energy or the breeding has a chance to fail, and if you want to breed them more than once per day you must pay to buy breeding tokens (which while they are for site currency, you only have a handful of ways to 'generate' currency from the site and they can get expensive) You also cannot 'guarantee' what a gryff looks like when breeding unless you breed two exact gryffs. You can put a gryff up for adoption for 200 gold or delete it for 300.

Aywas allows you to change the gender of the pets but that has absolutely no bearing on breeding at all. With aywas, to my understanding, everything is hand drawn and it can take months to get a baby from a pair. Not every pet can breed with every other due to the species of the pet (again to my understanding), You can also send pets to the adoption center if you don't want them (not sure there is a delete feature, I have never used it if there is)

Leayphs is like flight rising with male/female and I don't think there is any way to change the sex, but breeding-wise, it is like Gryffs with one offspring and needing special things to breed. Since Leayph is coded by the same person as Gryffs, I assume that you can also delete the pets on leayphs, not sure if there is an AC are.

Furvilla allows you to change the sex of the mini pets (villagers can't breed together) but females have cooldowns, you only get one from each pairing, you are most likely to get the common of the species and it isn't the main focus on the site. Furvilla allows you to discard, gift, sell all minipets, and despite that, Animal Husbandry is STILL broken and there are usually a ton of pets for cheap.

I haven't heard of any other petsite that has breeding like Flight Rising, where you get 1-5 chicks, are guaranteed to get them (ie egg rot was taken out), have a easy way of guaranteeing what the outcome is AND the only way to get rid of dragons is through exalting.

I also haven't been on a petsite, breeding or not, that allowed you to only change one aspect of a color. Sure on some you can change the colors, but it is all or nothing (like FR), you can change species, but again, you don't have the ability to completely customize an existing pet. If you want a customized pet, you have to create a new pet.

While coding wise, making it so only unbred dragons could potentially work, it doesn't address the other issue of making breeding way to easy by being able to change any unbred dragon (of which there are a LOT) and then breeding it. That is also part of the no supports, not just coding.