General Discussion

@Savarin

Ah crap. I meant it as a general thing, not towards you specifically. I should have been more clear about it. I do agree with your points as well...I just don't think it's so cut and dry as some think it is. Hence why I'm primarily in the middle (mostly) on it.

Basically, I think a discussion is good on this-just I worry about people taking it too far where ever they stand.

I'm not Jewish so I have zero right to argue if this is or isn't offensive to them, so I won't. Please don't talk over people you're supposedly siding with. Let them have the floor if they have something to say, then agree with and boost those opinions rather than making your own posts. Please. Otherwise we end up arguing in other people's stead, and that's fairly condescending.

As to if I like this plotline? Eh, not particularly. But only in its execution, not its substance. Cap has literally had his body taken over by Red Skull before. He's been used for evil. That's not the problem for me. The difference was right from the start you knew it wasn't really him. This time they're insisting it is. This is clearly done for shock value, but it falls flat because everyone knows it's not going to stick one way or another. So I dislike it from a writing standpoint, in that they're trying so hard to go for shocking the readers (which just won't happen), rather that letting us in on the 'secret' from the start and letting us enjoy the drama of how the character's react to not knowing the truth.

My vote is that the cosmic cube that just gave Steve his powers back also altered his history.

@Hawkfeather

Isn't the cosmic cube a tricky thing-like a monkey's paw?

@Savarin

Thanks for the compliment! Vesper was my first or one of my first Nocturnes that I got during the 1st Night of the Nocturne event and I wanted apparel that would somewhat match her main coloration. Plus come on, pelts and armor go well together.

I think one of the things that bothers me the most about this whole thing is how utterly condescending and obnoxious some people are being towards the upset fans. Even comics professionals are making light of how unhappy some fans are.

"It's just fiction." "Wait and see." "You KNOW it won't last, right?" "Comics are all about gimmicks! Duh!" and other comments like that are so unnecessary. Do you really, honestly think people don't know this is fiction? Do you think that terrible things get a free pass just because they aren't real? If something might get better down the road does that mean you aren't allowed to be upset about it NOW?

Treating people like imbeciles, mocking them and implying they have no right to be upset about something is vile and hateful. People have every right to be upset about something and they have every right to express that upset (at least in a healthy way that doesn't involve death threats). There is no one person or viewpoint who gets to dictate what things others are and aren't allowed to be angry about. Also, just because a medium is known for pulling publicity stunts doesn't mean that all of those stunts are good and wonderful things.

One of the other "stunts" I hate is killing off a main character. Yeah, I know it's a tried and true gimmick and yeah, I know it probably won't stick, but I hate it because it's so cliché and because it's often poorly used. The whole "good guy was secretly a bad guy all along" thing is likewise just really damn frustrating and, IMO, uncreative. I think it's a tool for desperate, lazy writers who have no idea what to do with a character. It also plays into the ongoing trend of how nothing is ever allowed to be good and that everything needs to be dark and edgy in order to be more "realistic." Hope is childish. Goodness is immature. What a festering load of septic clots.

I think it's also worth noting that the creative forces behind this recent plot direction knew EXACTLY how upset some people would be by this latest plot twist. They counted on it. This is pure, undiluted shock value and they wanted people to be devastated. They knew it'd be a month before any further revelations would be made and that in the meantime fans would be suffering. And then they turn around and act outraged that fans are upset when they don't even know where this is all going! DUH! Yeah, you know what? Fans don't know. They can only react on the info they have. Ridiculing them for that is a pretty garbage thing to do. Let people be upset. Sympathize with them. Or if you can't be sympathetic at least keep your mouth shut so they can grieve in piece without being jabbed with a stick. If things will work out in the end, that's great, but until then let folks work through their own emotions.

Denial, Anger, Bargaining. Yeah, I'd say it fits. ;)

Is everyone handling this in an acceptable way? Nope. But jabbing them about it and rubbing salt in their wounds isn't going to make things any better.

The mindset I've developed to help me cope with stuff I hate in canon (any canon) is that if something doesn't fit with how I see a character, I just ignore it. I come up with my own "better" canon and pretend the "reality" doesn't exist. And if something goes so toxic that the whole thing becomes unpalatable, I stop reading/watching and switch to something else. I go read fanfics where the authors know what they're doing or I try and write stuff myself.

Also, I know purists will attack other fans for their "arrogance" in assuming they know a character/material better than the creators do, but as far as I'm concerned writers are just as human as the rest of us and thus are just as likely to screw up. I've written things for my own original characters that I've later hated and decided to ignore and I've seen other people admit that they've regretted writing certain storylines that "seemed like a good idea at the time."

This development does make me feel sick to the stomach and I really wish that it didn't happen, but he is Marvel's character so they should be able to do what they want with him.

@ashotinthedark
Sort of. It can do anything regardless of the consequences of it, but it doesn't generally cause backfiring side effects as far as I'm aware. I could be wrong though I'm not 100% versed in everything its shown up in.

Also of note the particular cube that I'm talking about isn't really a normal cube, but a bunch of cube shards shoved together brought to life, taking the form of a confused, all powerful little girl that ends up hating shield for using her. I wouldn't be at all surprised if her actions had caused something to change in history (either accidentally or on purpose who knows)