General Discussion

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October 07, 2013 13:49:44

Has anyone watched the evening news? (I'm nine hours ahead than Flight Rising time).
Just finished wathing the news and then Malala tells her story was showing live on TV.
Also have a look at these links:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-24379018

http://abcnews.go.com/International/72-hours-saved-malala-doctors-reveal-time-close/story?id=20485460
What do you think about this?

Please help me grow these plants. Thanks.

Last edited on Oct 07, 2013 13:56:24 by Kalianne

I see soo many parallels between the taliban and american extremists. We're practically living in pakistan! Religious extremists of ANY sort are incredibly bad.

Dactyl

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October 10, 2013 16:08:19

I see soo many parallels between the taliban and american extremists. We're practically living in pakistan! Religious extremists of ANY sort are incredibly bad.

... The Taliban are regularly killing people. They shot a little girl in the head for daring to publicly advocate education. Who was, and is, and hopefully will remain for a long time, a truly excellent individual.

As someone with strong religious views, I would like to ask for a little compassion here.

(::edit:: @zrcalo Sorry 'bout the late Tag)

NStormRider

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October 10, 2013 20:12:57

... The Taliban are regularly killing people. They shot a little girl in the head for daring to publicly advocate education. Who was, and is, and hopefully will remain for a long time, a truly excellent individual.

As someone with strong religious views, I would like to ask for a little compassion here.

(::edit:: @zrcalo Sorry 'bout the late Tag)

Last edited on Oct 11, 2013 17:28:50 by NStormRider

@NStormRider [quote]As someone with strong religious views, I would like to ask for a little compassion here.[/quote] Strong religious views =/= "religious extremism." I highly doubt you're one of those people who stand on street corners shrieking about how "GOD HATES F***" or physically assaulting women who are trying to get into family planning clinics. Also, our religious [i]extremists[/i] DO kill people. Maybe not with the alarming regularity of the Taliban, but they do still murder. And people [i]support them[/i]. Which is scary enough in and of itself - that there are people here, in the US, who think that people [i]like me[/i] deserve to [i]have our lives brutally ended[/i] over differences in opinion. How do people like that deserve compassion, when they can't be bothered to show it to others?

GoldenCoyote

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October 11, 2013 15:58:57

@NStormRider

Quote:

As someone with strong religious views, I would like to ask for a little compassion here.

Strong religious views =/= "religious extremism." I highly doubt you're one of those people who stand on street corners shrieking about how "GOD HATES F***" or physically assaulting women who are trying to get into family planning clinics.

Also, our religious extremists DO kill people. Maybe not with the alarming regularity of the Taliban, but they do still murder. And people support them. Which is scary enough in and of itself - that there are people here, in the US, who think that people like me deserve to have our lives brutally ended over differences in opinion. How do people like that deserve compassion, when they can't be bothered to show it to others?

Buy me a coffee? Please?

My ArtStation | Archive of Our Own

First off, Westboro ought not be used to characterize Christianity (or, really, anyone but Westboro) in the United States. And they also haven't killed anybody. They are a brilliant tool for the pro-gay marriage propagandist, but they're tiny. The Taliban sport around 35,000 members. Westboro has around 40 members.

Similarly, anti-abortion violence is incredibly, incredibly small, especially in comparison to the scale of abortion in the US. There are over a million abortions annually in the United States. Comparatively, we have a grand total of 8 abortion related murders, and 17 attempted murders, in 20+ years, including (oddly) Canada's statistics.

Of those, only one murder and one attempt occurred in the last 10 years. The Taliban likely murders more people in a day.

I'm not saying religious violence doesn't exist in America - I'm just saying it's not comparable to the Taliban. At all.

I have no idea who 'people like you' are. But even so, I'll tell you why people like that deserve compassion. Because the depictions of these people that you see in the media are incredibly slanted, just as all media depictions are incredibly slanted. And because compassion for those who are different from you - who have made different choices, who believe and value different things - cannot be a virtue you press for in others, and yet don't foster in yourself

If we are not good enough to be compassionate toward those that disturb us, we are not good enough to ask for compassion for those we disturb. As we cannot control the behaviors of others, we must, then, be accountable to the standards we set for them, before we try to apply them outward.

NStormRider

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October 11, 2013 17:22:40

First off, Westboro ought not be used to characterize Christianity (or, really, anyone but Westboro) in the United States. And they also haven't killed anybody. They are a brilliant tool for the pro-gay marriage propagandist, but they're tiny. The Taliban sport around 35,000 members. Westboro has around 40 members.

Similarly, anti-abortion violence is incredibly, incredibly small, especially in comparison to the scale of abortion in the US. There are over a million abortions annually in the United States. Comparatively, we have a grand total of 8 abortion related murders, and 17 attempted murders, in 20+ years, including (oddly) Canada's statistics.

Of those, only one murder and one attempt occurred in the last 10 years. The Taliban likely murders more people in a day.

I'm not saying religious violence doesn't exist in America - I'm just saying it's not comparable to the Taliban. At all.

I have no idea who 'people like you' are. But even so, I'll tell you why people like that deserve compassion. Because the depictions of these people that you see in the media are incredibly slanted, just as all media depictions are incredibly slanted. And because compassion for those who are different from you - who have made different choices, who believe and value different things - cannot be a virtue you press for in others, and yet don't foster in yourself

If we are not good enough to be compassionate toward those that disturb us, we are not good enough to ask for compassion for those we disturb. As we cannot control the behaviors of others, we must, then, be accountable to the standards we set for them, before we try to apply them outward.

Last edited on Oct 11, 2013 17:36:09 by NStormRider

@Dysnomia

Sorry, tagging people is weird.

NStormRider

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October 11, 2013 17:26:06

@Dysnomia

Sorry, tagging people is weird.

@NStormRider

It doesnt matter that you dont *think* westboro should be classified as christian.

They exist. They use your book and your doctrination to harm people.

But here's the clincher. No, they do not kill people. But every day people are killed by people claiming to be "christians".

All I see are people who go to church, participate in the christian religion, then going out and killing others.

It doesnt matter what religion you are. If you identify with a certain religion and are killing people in the name of that religion, you are the exact same thing as the taliban. No matter what religion you are. Killing people is wrong, and forcing your indoctrination on other people to the point of their death is just as wrong.

I've been to some amazing christian churches, that taught the importance of free will and allowing others to do what they want. If you want to put standards for yourself, thats fine. Just do not force your standards on others. For you are absolutely not accountable for any other standards but your own personal being.

Not your mother's. Not your father's. Not your pastor's, not your childrens' and not anyone you know. You are only in charge of yourself and your own body. If someone makes a decision that you do not agree with, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but that is the only thing you are entitled to. You are not entitled to any coercion or any harsh words towards that person.

Even if they are your child.

And dont use the excuse "I dont consider them christian". Because they do. Just because a muslim says "the taliban arent muslim" doesnt mean that they're not muslim extremists. It works both ways. Just because you say that westboro baptist isnt "christian" doesnt mean they're not christian extremists. They are using WHAT YOU BELIVE IN to do harm. The christians need to stand up and fight against them, instead of ignoring them or funding them.

Dactyl

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October 11, 2013 18:20:57

@NStormRider

It doesnt matter that you dont *think* westboro should be classified as christian.

They exist. They use your book and your doctrination to harm people.

But here's the clincher. No, they do not kill people. But every day people are killed by people claiming to be "christians".

All I see are people who go to church, participate in the christian religion, then going out and killing others.

It doesnt matter what religion you are. If you identify with a certain religion and are killing people in the name of that religion, you are the exact same thing as the taliban. No matter what religion you are. Killing people is wrong, and forcing your indoctrination on other people to the point of their death is just as wrong.

I've been to some amazing christian churches, that taught the importance of free will and allowing others to do what they want. If you want to put standards for yourself, thats fine. Just do not force your standards on others. For you are absolutely not accountable for any other standards but your own personal being.

Not your mother's. Not your father's. Not your pastor's, not your childrens' and not anyone you know. You are only in charge of yourself and your own body. If someone makes a decision that you do not agree with, yes you are entitled to your opinion, but that is the only thing you are entitled to. You are not entitled to any coercion or any harsh words towards that person.

Even if they are your child.

And dont use the excuse "I dont consider them christian". Because they do. Just because a muslim says "the taliban arent muslim" doesnt mean that they're not muslim extremists. It works both ways. Just because you say that westboro baptist isnt "christian" doesnt mean they're not christian extremists. They are using WHAT YOU BELIVE IN to do harm. The christians need to stand up and fight against them, instead of ignoring them or funding them.

Last edited on Oct 11, 2013 18:30:03 by Dactyl

@zrcalo

I don't know what you're talking about. Christians, by and large, have spoken against the Westboro Baptist Church. They are not a member of any larger Christian organization, and have been both denounced and cut off from all American Baptist organizations. Short of burning the place down, there's very little that American Christianity can or needs to do to address Westboro, except stop talking about them. They are obvious and odious publicity hounds, and every time someone sets them up as an example, they strengthen them.

Judging Christians, even the hard-right Christians, based on Westboro is like judging no-kill shelters based on Animal Liberation Front arsonists.

NStormRider

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October 11, 2013 20:09:07

@zrcalo

I don't know what you're talking about. Christians, by and large, have spoken against the Westboro Baptist Church. They are not a member of any larger Christian organization, and have been both denounced and cut off from all American Baptist organizations. Short of burning the place down, there's very little that American Christianity can or needs to do to address Westboro, except stop talking about them. They are obvious and odious publicity hounds, and every time someone sets them up as an example, they strengthen them.

Judging Christians, even the hard-right Christians, based on Westboro is like judging no-kill shelters based on Animal Liberation Front arsonists.

@nstormrider

Hard-right christians are westboro baptist. Even further than westboro. Because at least westboro never killed anyone.

Not talking about westboro is perhaps the worst thing to do. Joining counter protests, and actively denouncing their behaviour as well as taking preventative means for individual vigilantes in churches is what needs to be happening.

All I see is people muttering under their breath "yeah we agree with them.. but we'd never go /that/ far like they are."

Yes, they are examples of a group that borders on satirical sometimes, but within every single church there are individuals that agree with their basic core beliefs and even internalize and radicalize the movement.

I should know. I've gone to about 32 churches across the united states for the past 22 years. Each congregation has their extremists and the community does nothing about it but turn a blind eye.

I've even seen a progressive church support a book that was responsible for the deaths of 8 children and the seizure of many others, out of pure ignorance of it's contents. If it's labeled as christian, that does not mean it is christian. Too many people are blind sheep to the evils that are perpetuated in the system, mostly because of their faith to blindly follow and not question their leaders.

I've seen churches vote in pastors that have ripped the church to shreds, I've seen pastors call the police on church members because they disagreed with him. I've seen so much money laundering, I'd think I was working for the mafia.

I'm not saying all christians are evil. I'm not saying christians are evil at all. I'm saying they're blind to their own evils and will prefer to turn away from them and ignore them. What they need to do is step up to the plate, admit christians are doing this, and prevent their congregations from joining this egregious behaviour.

They need to adopt a no-hate policy, and instead of protesting things they do not like.. they need to talk with people on a person to person basis and understand individual decisions and beliefs. They need to be invited to the home of the "sinner" and become friends to help and aid them without forcing their beliefs on them. ie; with the example of abortion... instead of fighting abortion, how about supporting contraception and helping teenagers who do decide to have their children. How about adopting children in foster care and loving those who decide to have an abortion anyway and helping them prevent another pregnancy?

All I see are angry people with signs standing on the other side of the fence yelling at those across the way. Not people who would reach their hand out to take a pregnant teen off the street, feed and clothe her, and care for her child. If people were truely against abortion, they would help the mother instead of persecuting her.

I do not think anyone should be protesting abortion unless they have adopted an unwanted child themselves.

Dactyl

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October 11, 2013 22:54:44

@nstormrider

Hard-right christians are westboro baptist. Even further than westboro. Because at least westboro never killed anyone.

Not talking about westboro is perhaps the worst thing to do. Joining counter protests, and actively denouncing their behaviour as well as taking preventative means for individual vigilantes in churches is what needs to be happening.

All I see is people muttering under their breath "yeah we agree with them.. but we'd never go /that/ far like they are."

Yes, they are examples of a group that borders on satirical sometimes, but within every single church there are individuals that agree with their basic core beliefs and even internalize and radicalize the movement.

I should know. I've gone to about 32 churches across the united states for the past 22 years. Each congregation has their extremists and the community does nothing about it but turn a blind eye.

I've even seen a progressive church support a book that was responsible for the deaths of 8 children and the seizure of many others, out of pure ignorance of it's contents. If it's labeled as christian, that does not mean it is christian. Too many people are blind sheep to the evils that are perpetuated in the system, mostly because of their faith to blindly follow and not question their leaders.

I've seen churches vote in pastors that have ripped the church to shreds, I've seen pastors call the police on church members because they disagreed with him. I've seen so much money laundering, I'd think I was working for the mafia.

I'm not saying all christians are evil. I'm not saying christians are evil at all. I'm saying they're blind to their own evils and will prefer to turn away from them and ignore them. What they need to do is step up to the plate, admit christians are doing this, and prevent their congregations from joining this egregious behaviour.

They need to adopt a no-hate policy, and instead of protesting things they do not like.. they need to talk with people on a person to person basis and understand individual decisions and beliefs. They need to be invited to the home of the "sinner" and become friends to help and aid them without forcing their beliefs on them. ie; with the example of abortion... instead of fighting abortion, how about supporting contraception and helping teenagers who do decide to have their children. How about adopting children in foster care and loving those who decide to have an abortion anyway and helping them prevent another pregnancy?

All I see are angry people with signs standing on the other side of the fence yelling at those across the way. Not people who would reach their hand out to take a pregnant teen off the street, feed and clothe her, and care for her child. If people were truely against abortion, they would help the mother instead of persecuting her.

I do not think anyone should be protesting abortion unless they have adopted an unwanted child themselves.

Last edited on Oct 11, 2013 22:56:16 by Dactyl

... My goodness. Way to put huge groups in tiny boxes, dude.

NStormRider