General Discussion

@Archiehicox

Such training practices are banned in AZA institutions, thank you very much.
No, calves are not just taken from their mothers. In the past, have they rarely been transferred to other facilities in order to maintain a health gene pool? Yes.
But with the advances in AI technology, facilities are now able to keep genetic diversity by having male genes sent to them in a canister instead of having to transfer individuals. This is a pretty new thing, and it's only been starting to be used in the past few years.

Again, husbandry is a science. We in the field are always trying to improve our standards in order to make life better for the animals in our care.


@Woodenclaw
Because the animal is choosing to do it, and is doing so enthusiastically. You should research things like variable reinforcement, or try such practices with your animals at home, should you have any. I think you would understand what I'm talking about.

Moreover, body language is an excellent way to gauge an animal's emotional state, as well as vocalizations.

Furthermore, you don't need to complain to be about the dangers of anthropomorphism. It has always been a huge issue for us in the husbandry field, especially when you get organizations like PETA involved.

Any treats an animal gets is either in addition to a normal diet or is a part of the diet, and leftovers are fed out after the training sessions during regular meals in order to ensure a proper diet. The animals are not being forced to perform in order to eat.

And yes, they do get a proper diet. There are entire jobs and careers devoted to this.

Rehabilitation is not magic. Sometimes animals are not fit to return to the wild, and must either be humanely euthanized or kept in captivity.

@woodenclaw

Also, your information about captive orca lifespan is simply false.
Well, it may be true for other facilities, but not Seaworld.

I find it almost funny that the most vehemently and opinionated posts seem to be based on nothing more than guilt trips and a heavily biased documentary (and probably bleeding heart tumblr activist posts). Whereas the arguments to look at both sides with an open mind/acknowledging the good SeaWorld has done are the posts that are well researched and coming from a qualified professional.

Look, I came into this thread to say a firm NO WAY NOT EVER too (source/qualifications: I also watched Blackfish), but after reading through every post I'm appreciating the other side of the argument a lot more.

Blackfish is very revealing, if a little on the emotive side, though if she's convinced its all just overblown propaganda by a bunch of bleeding hearts it might just fall on deaf ears. I'd start by trying to engage her interest in them as creatures more positively. Make it something you can both learn about together by watching some good documentaries and reading up on them, once she starts to see just what social, intelligent animals they are, creatures that naturally live decades and roam hundreds of miles together in tight knit family groups, she'll start to understand why you can't keep an animal like that happy in captivity. Suggest you go on some sort of whale watching trip instead, where you can really appreciate them to their fullest in their natural environment, instead of as a novelty attraction.

There's a bunch of documentaries up on youtube, anything by bbc or national geographic is generally good.

@Archiehicox

Again, not denying they've transferred individuals. I'm sure that before we truly knew how important the family bond was to large, intelligent mammals, many mistakes were made.
However, some of the sources that article lists contains some inaccuracies regarding their tracking of whale movements. I wouldn't use that as an end-all-be-all for the argument.

Unfortunately, whilst that is indeed the process used in AZA organizations today, let's not kid ourselves.
Zoos and aquariums started as nothing BUT entertainment.
Conditions were horrid. No cared about the animals.
But things have greatly improved since then. But we in the industry already had those animals before we realized just what their needs really were. All we can do is try to improve their conditions as much as we can when new information comes out. You think we in the industry don't feel guilty about our past? That we don't panic and freak out when research comes out and says our husbandry needs to be updated?

We can't just get rid of the animals we have now and put them in the wild. It would kill them. Our ONLY option is to update their husbandry while they are in our care.

I stated previously that I do not think current, in-practice orca husbandry standards are adequate. But seaworld is in the process of updating these standards. And that is what matters.