General Discussion

[quote name="8BitDeer" date="2019-11-02 08:48:03" ] Masuda expressed stress from this whole thing, and I'm honestly worried sick about him ever since... [/quote] @8bitdeer aww shoot i didn't know about that, but that really makes me sad :( i really hope he's doing okay or that at least things will die down after the game releases... i think the problem too, along with what you brought up, is that people seem to act like the natdex decision was done...maliciously? or that it was done because any other reason besides time constraints/resources? i'm the lead game developers/etc had to sit down and talk about: - pokemon need new models for the upcoming game - there are currently 800+, not including the ones new to this upcoming generation - it takes X amount of time to complete a model/evolution line - how do we solve this problem when we want a main series game on the switch within Z timeline i'm sure it wasn't an easy decision, and i'm sure they were well aware that people wouldn't be happy about it. but i'm sure they made that decision because they wanted to focus on not only making new models (which imo look really nice from what we've seen), but also making things exclusive to this new generation and new region. i've seen it brought up like.... oh well if they couldn't make new models for everything why did they waste time on dynamax/gigantamax?? but i don't get that argument because dynamax is just a large version of the existing model (which they make have to rework a bit but i'm sure it's less work when the base already exists), and i'm sure there won't be a ton of gigantamax versions? so it's like a handful of special models vs making hundreds of other models. i dunno it just really bums me out with the way people have been acting too. :( i might be too lenient but i really would like to give them the benefit of the doubt because i'm sure i don't understand how much time goes into these kinds of things.

Why do people keeping saying the pokemon needed new models? They made all the 3D models back in X/Y (including running animations for some reason) for the sole purpose of re-using them. The models in the newest game don't look any different, they use the same animations.

The switch had plenty of space, the models were already complete, and cutting out the core of a pokemon game means they can cut out anything. Pokemon is a great franchise with very lazy developers, because people will buy it no matter what. Fan creations have been more creative.

I won't be buying the newest game, or any games in the future considering the path they're going down. I'll replay the older ones, it's basically the same game each time.

@murkydepths that was actually a rumour that was debunked. [url=https://www.polygon.com/pokemon/2019/7/13/20693069/pokemon-sword-shield-pokedex-limited-game-freak-statement-nintendo-switch] all models were made from scratch, there are no reused assets [/url] i'm currently playing through X/Y again and can't disagree more that the new models don't look different ^^; edit: i also can't stress how big of a hardware difference it is between the 3DS and the Switch. if they were using the same models from X/Y it would be VERY noticeable. for instance THIS is pikachu from X/Y: [img]https://www.geek.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/pikachuxandy-625x350.jpg[/img] and THIS is Pikachu from Sw/Sh and Let's Go: [img]https://nintendosoup.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/pokemon-swordshield-vs-letsgo-PIKACHU-feb282019-1038x576.jpg[/img]

tbh I'm just tired of hearing about it at this point. I'm disappointed too, and a lot of my favorites are pretty obscure/less popular and almost certainly aren't going to make their way in, but people have been furious about it for months and there's nothing new to be said about the matter. it's gotten to the point where it's impossible to talk about these games at all without the conversation descending into an unproductive and repetitive argument over the dex.

@Residual I confess I've not looked into the newest pokemon game recently, but looking it up it seems there's still a fair bit of controversy about re-made models despite the interview.

Animations have definitely been re-used, and there's way more evidence for re-used models than the interview doesn't address.

The models in X/Y were made to be future-proof, they contained more detail than would show up on the 3DS. Why would gamefreak decide to re-make models when they can reuse them? And they can be re-used, you can easily port those models onto the switch. You might want to upgrade the textures(the skin on the model) - but that is a whole lot less work than re-making them all.

Plus, the models in sword/shield are literally identical to the models in X/Y. That have the same amount of triangles. It'd be insanely hard to re-make the models, but have them look exactly like the old models.

I think the interview is being misleading. Pikachu's model's face got updated, and the textures have been changed, but I don't think they re-made every model from scratch. There's no reason for them to.

EDIT: You edited your post while I was replying, so lil update: Those pictures are showing a texture change, not a model change. And yeah you can port models from 3DS to switch.

@Residual As far as I know, MurkyDepths is right. GameFreak made their Pokémon models future proof, so that they could be used in future games, including SwSh. There's countless examples that show that the models have the exact same amount of polygons, move exactly the same way, etc. The only thing that's a little different is the lighting. That's literally it. They didn't remake the old models from scratch - and besides, if they did, why would they choose to make them exactly as they were before instead of using that chance to make better ones? Also afaIk the Polygon article was based on mistranslated information, though I'm not 100% sure on that. I'm gonna go digging for sources ~

That said, I personally don't really care about the National Dex being gone, though I understand why people are upset. GameFreak claiming that the cut was necessary to give them the opportunity to work on better animations probably didn't help either, because so far, it looks like a ton of animations (including battle animations) are being re-used. Which would be fine if the existing animations were more dynamic and lively than they are now. And that, understandably, made a lot of people upset. Some of the overworld textures are a little rough, too (I don't just mean the infamous tree), though personally I think that the games look really nice overall! Not to mention that we don't know the full reason behind the National Dex getting cut; it might be for more reasons than just "better animations". After all, I'm no game eveloper, so I have no idea how much work goes into making a game like this!

But to come back to the national dex, I've never had the opportunity to complete my Pokedex. I'm used to being stuck with the Pokémon that are available in-game, and a lot o the time, bringing Pokémon over from older gens wasn't really an option for me either. XY were the first games where I was able to trade with people world-wide and gain access to a lot of Pokémon. But even then, getting every Pokémon wasn't really possible for me, because most of the ones you got from Wonder Trade were the same garbage over and over again, and most of the offers in the GTS were abysmal.

So yeah, I've always used (mostly) what was available to me in the games, so not having a National Dex changes nothing for me personally, which is why I don't care about this whole thing. Sure, I'll be sad if none of my top-favourites are in the game, but I've dealt just fine with that in past games, too. Plus there's 800+ Pokémon, and I think (or at least hope) that about 300 - 400 of those will be available in SwSh, which is still A LOT to choose from.

And just as a side note, I saw the decision to remove the National Dex coming sooner or later anyway. I mean, again, there's over 800+ Pokémon. That's A LOT. That's a crazy amount of monsters. It's almost absurd. It's not uncommon for other developers to not include all of their creatures in newer games, either. So yeah, it really didn't come as a surprise to me :'D

@applejuice oh i'd be super interested if you find something that talks about that! i didn't know it was possibly mistranslated. :o