Legends&The Legendary [ENDED] | Forum Games

oops, missed something [quote name="@Tanglefire" date="2023-04-25 10:31:53" ] Refreshed and not sure why Market is hinting at ability use already when we’re not really that close to eotd. We have no clue of out D1 elim and already trying to think of night phase stuff already? Hm. Not saying they’re trying to divert attention, and yeah I guess this is role madness so abilities will be a big part, but idk just seems weird. [/quote] Personally doesn't seem weird to me, given obviously there are lightning abilities and apparently some day ones as well, and we can't be sure which modifiers are connected to which factions. I'm not advocating for dedicating much of our time to discussing it since we don't even know what's available, but planning our role usage could be just as beneficial to town as to scum. That in mind, while I have no objections with the content of the statement, forgive my enduring paranoia in not knowing what to think about bringing up other topics not [i]directly[/i] related to potential leads or actions we could take?

Achromaticism

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April 25, 2023 16:37:54

oops, missed something

@Tanglefire wrote on 2023-04-25 10:31:53:

Refreshed and not sure why Market is hinting at ability use already when we’re not really that close to eotd. We have no clue of out D1 elim and already trying to think of night phase stuff already? Hm.

Not saying they’re trying to divert attention, and yeah I guess this is role madness so abilities will be a big part, but idk just seems weird.

Personally doesn't seem weird to me, given obviously there are lightning abilities and apparently some day ones as well, and we can't be sure which modifiers are connected to which factions. I'm not advocating for dedicating much of our time to discussing it since we don't even know what's available, but planning our role usage could be just as beneficial to town as to scum.

That in mind, while I have no objections with the content of the statement, forgive my enduring paranoia in not knowing what to think about bringing up other topics not directly related to potential leads or actions we could take?

"What- you, the father of all skepticism, worried?"

"Just because I don't think it happened doesn't mean I can't be worried."

I'm not particularly suspicious of Ainsell. Those that read them are much more suspicious. I should probably write it down somewhere so I don't forget them.

I'm not sure what to say about Storm or Tanglefire. They're pretty active. I sifted a little bit of their posts. StormDreamer hasn't posted much substantial; I'm feeling neutral about her so far. Tanglefire seems to be trying to put the discussion on track at parts; town-ish, but remains to be seen.

Fil

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April 25, 2023 16:38:44

I'm not particularly suspicious of Ainsell. Those that read them are much more suspicious. I should probably write it down somewhere so I don't forget them.

I'm not sure what to say about Storm or Tanglefire. They're pretty active. I sifted a little bit of their posts. StormDreamer hasn't posted much substantial; I'm feeling neutral about her so far. Tanglefire seems to be trying to put the discussion on track at parts; town-ish, but remains to be seen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Time: FR +15/+16
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Fil is back in FR.
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[quote] @mcpearlie sorry to necro but I’m not sure if anyone else shared their thoughts on this. I think that holding out for detective abilities is not the move. what if there are no detective roles? what if there’s a maf aligned detective role? What if maf knocks out detective on n1? what if detective puts a target on their back too early to be helpful? etc. etc.[/quote] you def make a good point. i always assumed there’s some sort of detective role but, you’re right we’re way too early in to figure that out. we have so many questions and zero answers so far

mcpearlie

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April 25, 2023 17:11:04

Quote:

@mcpearlie sorry to necro but I’m not sure if anyone else shared their thoughts on this. I think that holding out for detective abilities is not the move. what if there are no detective roles? what if there’s a maf aligned detective role? What if maf knocks out detective on n1? what if detective puts a target on their back too early to be helpful? etc. etc.

you def make a good point. i always assumed there’s some sort of detective role but, you’re right we’re way too early in to figure that out. we have so many questions and zero answers so far

[quote name="@Achromaticism" date="2023-04-25 16:37:54" ] planning our role usage could be just as beneficial to town as to scum. [/quote] i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town. mafia is already the informed minority - we don't want to make them any more informed by telling them, first of all, who has what role, and second, how people are planning to use the abilities their role grants them. they can and most certainly will use that information to their advantage. there are ways to inference what one's role and/or abilities are without them outright saying it, of course, but the more hints we plant regarding those roles/abilities, the EASIER it is for mafia (and everyone else) to make those inferences, and the more accurate those inferences will be. of course, there are some strategies that involve hinting at your role/abilities in order to help town (i've seen this before) or to bamboozle mafia and such, but those are much more complex and i would generally recommend keeping your role/abilities as locked down as possible unless you really know what you're doing or really think it's necessary to hint. i DO NOT encourage hinting at your role/abilities in the slightest.

lyrelore

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April 25, 2023 18:38:25

@Achromaticism wrote on 2023-04-25 16:37:54:

planning our role usage could be just as beneficial to town as to scum.

i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town. mafia is already the informed minority - we don't want to make them any more informed by telling them, first of all, who has what role, and second, how people are planning to use the abilities their role grants them. they can and most certainly will use that information to their advantage.

there are ways to inference what one's role and/or abilities are without them outright saying it, of course, but the more hints we plant regarding those roles/abilities, the EASIER it is for mafia (and everyone else) to make those inferences, and the more accurate those inferences will be.

of course, there are some strategies that involve hinting at your role/abilities in order to help town (i've seen this before) or to bamboozle mafia and such, but those are much more complex and i would generally recommend keeping your role/abilities as locked down as possible unless you really know what you're doing or really think it's necessary to hint. i DO NOT encourage hinting at your role/abilities in the slightest.

And when creation goes to die,
You can find me in the sky,
Upon the last day...
And you will be okay.

.

I’m going to vote “no elimination” right now because I go offline soon/asleep and will be waking up just as the day closes, so I want to make sure I’ve got my vote in. I can and will change my vote according to whatever consensus we reach and if I’m capable to, because I really don’t have much of an opinion on D1-elims at this point (I feel I don’t have enough experience in FR mafia to make my own judgement this time). I’m a bit worried to be the first to vote, here, but I’d feel better doing it sooner than later as to make sure I actually get mine in.

As far as I’m aware, we are leaning towards no elimination, right? I’ve seen a lot of players talking about not eliminating if we don’t get any good scum reads throughout the round, and some have recently acknowledged that that seems to be the case. We’ve speculated but don’t seem to have any hard suspicions that we’d be willing to vote on. I do know that some of us do prefer D1-elims no matter if we have a suspicion or not for reason of info purposes, but I’m under the impression that the majority of us would rather have a real suspicion than vote for a random elimination.

If you see this, I’m really sorry, Cutbug! I totally forgot to ping you- I’ll try to remember next time I make a claim involving somebody.

FeebleNeedle

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April 25, 2023 18:38:37

I’m going to vote “no elimination” right now because I go offline soon/asleep and will be waking up just as the day closes, so I want to make sure I’ve got my vote in. I can and will change my vote according to whatever consensus we reach and if I’m capable to, because I really don’t have much of an opinion on D1-elims at this point (I feel I don’t have enough experience in FR mafia to make my own judgement this time). I’m a bit worried to be the first to vote, here, but I’d feel better doing it sooner than later as to make sure I actually get mine in.

As far as I’m aware, we are leaning towards no elimination, right? I’ve seen a lot of players talking about not eliminating if we don’t get any good scum reads throughout the round, and some have recently acknowledged that that seems to be the case. We’ve speculated but don’t seem to have any hard suspicions that we’d be willing to vote on. I do know that some of us do prefer D1-elims no matter if we have a suspicion or not for reason of info purposes, but I’m under the impression that the majority of us would rather have a real suspicion than vote for a random elimination.

If you see this, I’m really sorry, Cutbug! I totally forgot to ping you- I’ll try to remember next time I make a claim involving somebody.

I am increasingly busy
these days
Lore and clan bio are
WIPs
I am always open to pings
and messages :D

@FeebleNeedle

voting sooner rather than later is definitely good. it allows people more time to go over your vote and your reasoning(s) behind it and respond to it/prod it/etc if necessary, and, like you said, it's just good in case you might not get the chance to vote later. i used to like to hold off on voting until the last minute but i recently realized (just in my last game, i think?) that voting sooner is better, for the aforementioned reasons.

and yes, it does seem like we're leaning towards no elimination today. lockdown occurs at 0600 FR time, which is still quite a ways away (i'm sure especially for some people in different timezones for me - it's about 9:41 PM for me right now as i write this, and 0600 FR time is 9:00 AM for me) so we still have some time to discuss and for new things to pop up, but so far no one is really sus enough to warrant an elimination. and while i love having a d1 elim and i don't really like not having one, i don't think i would ever eliminate someone who i didn't seriously think could be mafia (or 3p or anything), and i'm certainly not going to do it now.

lyrelore

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April 25, 2023 18:43:31

@FeebleNeedle

voting sooner rather than later is definitely good. it allows people more time to go over your vote and your reasoning(s) behind it and respond to it/prod it/etc if necessary, and, like you said, it's just good in case you might not get the chance to vote later. i used to like to hold off on voting until the last minute but i recently realized (just in my last game, i think?) that voting sooner is better, for the aforementioned reasons.

and yes, it does seem like we're leaning towards no elimination today. lockdown occurs at 0600 FR time, which is still quite a ways away (i'm sure especially for some people in different timezones for me - it's about 9:41 PM for me right now as i write this, and 0600 FR time is 9:00 AM for me) so we still have some time to discuss and for new things to pop up, but so far no one is really sus enough to warrant an elimination. and while i love having a d1 elim and i don't really like not having one, i don't think i would ever eliminate someone who i didn't seriously think could be mafia (or 3p or anything), and i'm certainly not going to do it now.

And when creation goes to die,
You can find me in the sky,
Upon the last day...
And you will be okay.

.

[quote name="Temmeh" date="2023-04-25 12:45:32" ] i have some more comments to add but school is sweeping me away again so i wont be able to add those in for a little bit !! but expect another post from me sometime soon [/quote] as we approach nearer to the end of the day for me (ill be asleep when d1 ends ??) i want to give some of my near closing thoughts as well as continue what i alluded to wanting to say earlier BASICALLY.. my take is that i think we spent a little bit too much time debating over a select few individual's innocence to properly have a lead on someone to vote out. there are still several people (myself included) who have been on the lower side of activity whos messages havent been too studied and instead most focus has been targetted towards some of the more active players who took on leadership roles (ains, market, and storm). while this obviously makes sense that we would want to investigate their possible motives with this now and be cautious with labeling any of them as solid townreads, it also kind of led to a tunnel vision on largely the 3 of them. inevitably, the general consensus i saw was that people think "yea, they shouldnt be considered unanimously as likely town, but at the same time i still think they are town". [quote name="@FeebleNeedle" date="2023-04-25 18:38:37" ] As far as I’m aware, we are leaning towards no elimination, right? I’ve seen a lot of players talking about not eliminating if we don’t get any good scum reads throughout the round, and some have recently acknowledged that that seems to be the case. We’ve speculated but don’t seem to have any hard suspicions that we’d be willing to vote on. I do know that some of us do prefer D1-elims no matter if we have a suspicion or not for reason of info purposes, but I’m under the impression that the majority of us would rather have a real suspicion than vote for a random elimination. [/quote] agreeing with feeble here, i think im also geared to end up voting for a no elimination for d1. while im not against the idea, i just dont think we have enough reasoning behind any individual so far for me to be comfortable with getting someone eliminated this early. the individuals most under scrutiny have also led to some of the most helpful discussion (looping back to ains / storm / market, but also individuals like achro that were under a bit of fire earlier) and eliminating any of them d1 would be a really risky play that im not sure i would want to take. of course my opinion on this could totally change assuming in the last 11 hours we have left a new argument is made against someone. but as of now those are my general closing thoughts ^^ (also, is riverlight ok yall?! im guessing we are just going to end up with a replacement for them on d2 but its tragic that someone is already getting outed for inactivity)

Temmeh

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April 25, 2023 19:00:14

Temmeh wrote on 2023-04-25 12:45:32:

i have some more comments to add but school is sweeping me away again so i wont be able to add those in for a little bit !! but expect another post from me sometime soon

as we approach nearer to the end of the day for me (ill be asleep when d1 ends ??) i want to give some of my near closing thoughts as well as continue what i alluded to wanting to say earlier

BASICALLY.. my take is that i think we spent a little bit too much time debating over a select few individual's innocence to properly have a lead on someone to vote out. there are still several people (myself included) who have been on the lower side of activity whos messages havent been too studied and instead most focus has been targetted towards some of the more active players who took on leadership roles (ains, market, and storm). while this obviously makes sense that we would want to investigate their possible motives with this now and be cautious with labeling any of them as solid townreads, it also kind of led to a tunnel vision on largely the 3 of them. inevitably, the general consensus i saw was that people think "yea, they shouldnt be considered unanimously as likely town, but at the same time i still think they are town".

@FeebleNeedle wrote on 2023-04-25 18:38:37:

As far as I’m aware, we are leaning towards no elimination, right? I’ve seen a lot of players talking about not eliminating if we don’t get any good scum reads throughout the round, and some have recently acknowledged that that seems to be the case. We’ve speculated but don’t seem to have any hard suspicions that we’d be willing to vote on. I do know that some of us do prefer D1-elims no matter if we have a suspicion or not for reason of info purposes, but I’m under the impression that the majority of us would rather have a real suspicion than vote for a random elimination.

agreeing with feeble here, i think im also geared to end up voting for a no elimination for d1. while im not against the idea, i just dont think we have enough reasoning behind any individual so far for me to be comfortable with getting someone eliminated this early. the individuals most under scrutiny have also led to some of the most helpful discussion (looping back to ains / storm / market, but also individuals like achro that were under a bit of fire earlier) and eliminating any of them d1 would be a really risky play that im not sure i would want to take.

of course my opinion on this could totally change assuming in the last 11 hours we have left a new argument is made against someone. but as of now those are my general closing thoughts ^^

(also, is riverlight ok yall?! im guessing we are just going to end up with a replacement for them on d2 but its tragic that someone is already getting outed for inactivity)

[quote name="@lyrelore" date="2023-04-25 18:38:25" ] i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town. [/quote] i'm in full agreement, no open planning or hinting at roles or whatever d1, and proceed with caution after that. [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/forga/3233514/18#post_54041002]The way I meant it was following with Ceru's suggestion of keeping your role and its uses in mind silently. [/url] As I mentioned, I don't think it's worth discussing at length (+to the extent of swapping details and making plans.) I realize I should've been more clear with my primary point- when I read her message, I read it as a suggestion to keep in mind how to effectively use your own role, rather than coordinate with others. I also realize that in my own interpretations I haven't been paying attention to time, so I misinterpreted things as being a bit more urgent than they were. In light of that, I concede that his point was kind of made a bit early given we had,,, 23 hours left at that point?

Achromaticism

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April 25, 2023 19:20:18

@lyrelore wrote on 2023-04-25 18:38:25:

i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town.

i'm in full agreement, no open planning or hinting at roles or whatever d1, and proceed with caution after that. The way I meant it was following with Ceru's suggestion of keeping your role and its uses in mind silently. As I mentioned, I don't think it's worth discussing at length (+to the extent of swapping details and making plans.) I realize I should've been more clear with my primary point- when I read her message, I read it as a suggestion to keep in mind how to effectively use your own role, rather than coordinate with others.

I also realize that in my own interpretations I haven't been paying attention to time, so I misinterpreted things as being a bit more urgent than they were. In light of that, I concede that his point was kind of made a bit early given we had,,, 23 hours left at that point?

"What- you, the father of all skepticism, worried?"

"Just because I don't think it happened doesn't mean I can't be worried."

[quote name="@Achromaticism" date="2023-04-25 19:20:18" ] [quote name="@/lyrelore" date="2023-04-25 18:38:25" ] i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town. [/quote] i'm in full agreement, no open planning or hinting at roles or whatever d1, and proceed with caution after that. [url=https://www1.flightrising.com/forums/forga/3233514/18#post_54041002]The way I meant it was following with Ceru's suggestion of keeping your role and its uses in mind silently. [/url] As I mentioned, I don't think it's worth discussing at length (+to the extent of swapping details and making plans.) I realize I should've been more clear with my primary point- when I read her message, I read it as a suggestion to keep in mind how to effectively use your own role, rather than coordinate with others. I also realize that in my own interpretations I haven't been paying attention to time, so I misinterpreted things as being a bit more urgent than they were. In light of that, I concede that his point was kind of made a bit early given we had,,, 23 hours left at that point? [/quote] Ah yeah, I figured as such, I just wanted to make it clear just in case - and I think I totally forgot that part of your post as I was typing mine hrrngh. I do agree with you that Ceru's post was definitely "y'all think about how to use yer roles" and not "let's all talk about our roles" - she literally stated that within her post. [quote name="Marketplace" date="2023-04-25 10:04:39" ] - now that we're in the latter half, we should be thinking about how to use our abilities to speed up the deduction process come thursday. [b]silently, as no one has even softclaimed yet.[/b] mafia homework ig [/quote] Though I also agree that it just felt a tiny bit strange to me? I agree with Tangle, you, and anyone else who's said so. Like... Not necessarily pinged me as a town thing or a scum thing, just something that stood out to me and that I Noted. That's why I haven't stated so until now — because I literally had nothing to say other than just it stood out to me.

lyrelore

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April 25, 2023 20:06:35

@Achromaticism wrote on 2023-04-25 19:20:18:

@/lyrelore wrote on 2023-04-25 18:38:25:

i don't think it was what you meant by this (since you were talking about Ceru [Marketplace] bringing up "oh let's start thinking about how to use our roles"), but depending on how much we do it and if we're doing it out in the open, planning role usage can be quite detrimental to town.

i'm in full agreement, no open planning or hinting at roles or whatever d1, and proceed with caution after that. The way I meant it was following with Ceru's suggestion of keeping your role and its uses in mind silently. As I mentioned, I don't think it's worth discussing at length (+to the extent of swapping details and making plans.) I realize I should've been more clear with my primary point- when I read her message, I read it as a suggestion to keep in mind how to effectively use your own role, rather than coordinate with others.

I also realize that in my own interpretations I haven't been paying attention to time, so I misinterpreted things as being a bit more urgent than they were. In light of that, I concede that his point was kind of made a bit early given we had,,, 23 hours left at that point?

Ah yeah, I figured as such, I just wanted to make it clear just in case - and I think I totally forgot that part of your post as I was typing mine hrrngh. I do agree with you that Ceru's post was definitely "y'all think about how to use yer roles" and not "let's all talk about our roles" - she literally stated that within her post.

Marketplace wrote on 2023-04-25 10:04:39:

- now that we're in the latter half, we should be thinking about how to use our abilities to speed up the deduction process come thursday. silently, as no one has even softclaimed yet. mafia homework ig

Though I also agree that it just felt a tiny bit strange to me? I agree with Tangle, you, and anyone else who's said so. Like... Not necessarily pinged me as a town thing or a scum thing, just something that stood out to me and that I Noted. That's why I haven't stated so until now — because I literally had nothing to say other than just it stood out to me.

And when creation goes to die,
You can find me in the sky,
Upon the last day...
And you will be okay.

.

Woke up skimmed through, my brain is half awake please bare with me. [quote=@Temmeh] BASICALLY.. my take is that i think we spent a little bit too much time debating over a select few individual's innocence to properly have a lead on someone to vote out. there are still several people (myself included) who have been on the lower side of activity whos messages havent been too studied and instead most focus has been targetted towards some of the more active players who took on leadership roles (ains, market, and storm). while this obviously makes sense that we would want to investigate their possible motives with this now and be cautious with labeling any of them as solid townreads, it also kind of led to a tunnel vision on largely the 3 of them. inevitably, the general consensus i saw was that people think "yea, they shouldnt be considered unanimously as likely town, but at the same time i still think they are town".[/quote] Unless I’ve missed sth, I’m not sure how you read the last ~5 pages and came up with the conclusion that people are tunnelling on the trio. Isn’t the sus mainly on [b]the people townreading them[/b]? Yeah there was some squinting towards the trio as well, but this just means there was no tunnelling at all right? I can’t tell if you’ve just horribly misunderstood the last few pages, or if you’re trying to divert attention from the trio and onto quieter players. None of these are good. Quieter players haven’t been studied that much because there’s nothing to study with. At least that’s why I’m not actively looking into them yet. Take you as example. Of the 5 posts you made before this quoted post, minus your reads of storm and market, most of your posts were just general ideas/parroting/using paragraphs to say you’re neutral stance and have no reads. I personally don’t see a reason to elim quiet ones d1 since that’ll give up next to little info. + it’s role madness so we might even off a cop or sth Also, isn’t “sussing” the trios sort of also helping fish out everyone’s stance? Like yours right now ? :D I’m sorry if it seems like suddenly latching onto you. I have a handful few which see,s town to me and unfortunately you’re not one of them. I’m therefore treating stuff you post as a potential non-town. ————- That said @mcpearlie do you really have no thoughts or reads? It doesn’t have to be very detailed. I will love to hear even your gut feelings. Feel free to take a look at the player list and just list whatever impression/feeling you have of everyone. If that person didn’t leave an impression just say it as well! I don’t wanna elim you again over little posting because I’m slightly lenient to newbies. But if empty posting keeps up in the next few days I would consider elim/requesting vig kill on you.

Tanglefire

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April 25, 2023 20:07:59

Woke up skimmed through, my brain is half awake please bare with me.

@Temmeh wrote:

BASICALLY.. my take is that i think we spent a little bit too much time debating over a select few individual's innocence to properly have a lead on someone to vote out. there are still several people (myself included) who have been on the lower side of activity whos messages havent been too studied and instead most focus has been targetted towards some of the more active players who took on leadership roles (ains, market, and storm). while this obviously makes sense that we would want to investigate their possible motives with this now and be cautious with labeling any of them as solid townreads, it also kind of led to a tunnel vision on largely the 3 of them. inevitably, the general consensus i saw was that people think "yea, they shouldnt be considered unanimously as likely town, but at the same time i still think they are town".

Unless I’ve missed sth, I’m not sure how you read the last ~5 pages and came up with the conclusion that people are tunnelling on the trio. Isn’t the sus mainly on the people townreading them? Yeah there was some squinting towards the trio as well, but this just means there was no tunnelling at all right?

I can’t tell if you’ve just horribly misunderstood the last few pages, or if you’re trying to divert attention from the trio and onto quieter players. None of these are good.

Quieter players haven’t been studied that much because there’s nothing to study with. At least that’s why I’m not actively looking into them yet. Take you as example. Of the 5 posts you made before this quoted post, minus your reads of storm and market, most of your posts were just general ideas/parroting/using paragraphs to say you’re neutral stance and have no reads.
I personally don’t see a reason to elim quiet ones d1 since that’ll give up next to little info. + it’s role madness so we might even off a cop or sth

Also, isn’t “sussing” the trios sort of also helping fish out everyone’s stance? Like yours right now ? :D

I’m sorry if it seems like suddenly latching onto you. I have a handful few which see,s town to me and unfortunately you’re not one of them. I’m therefore treating stuff you post as a potential non-town.

————-

That said @mcpearlie do you really have no thoughts or reads? It doesn’t have to be very detailed. I will love to hear even your gut feelings. Feel free to take a look at the player list and just list whatever impression/feeling you have of everyone. If that person didn’t leave an impression just say it as well!

I don’t wanna elim you again over little posting because I’m slightly lenient to newbies. But if empty posting keeps up in the next few days I would consider elim/requesting vig kill on you.