@glowb - doubles or triples @Eilastreon, @Mosflow, @Wendibro, @Rulanir, @RomanElke, @B3c71, @Pikavee, @Rifter, @briar, @Grimbone
Seraphim and Apollo: @PastelScale, Eilastreon, @muucifer, @Beheaded, @Cyphurus
Seraphim and Apollo will soon retire, but I'm trying to breed a clone of Seraphim first. So if you were looking for one of their kids, get one now. As always, let me know if you want to be removed from any pinglists.
[center]
[left]From Apollo x Seraphim:[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29316570]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/293166/29316570_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29316570[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Yellow Glimmer
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29316571]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/293166/29316571_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29316571[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Yellow Glimmer
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Understory x Canopy:[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29292256]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/292923/29292256_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29292256[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Sable Piebald / Pear Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29292257]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/292923/29292257_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29292257[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Driftwood Piebald / Cinnamon Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29292258]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/292923/29292258_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29292258[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Brown Piebald / Gold Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29292259]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/292923/29292259_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29292259[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Latte Piebald / Terracotta Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
@
glowb - doubles or triples @
Eilastreon, @
Mosflow, @
Wendibro, @
Rulanir, @
RomanElke, @
B3c71, @
Pikavee, @
Rifter, @
briar, @
Grimbone
Seraphim and Apollo: @
PastelScale, Eilastreon, @
muucifer, @
Beheaded, @
Cyphurus
Seraphim and Apollo will soon retire, but I'm trying to breed a clone of Seraphim first. So if you were looking for one of their kids, get one now. As always, let me know if you want to be removed from any pinglists.
From Apollo x Seraphim:
Quote:
29316570
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Yellow Glimmer
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29316571
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Yellow Glimmer
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
From Understory x Canopy:
Quote:
29292256
Sable Piebald / Pear Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29292257
Driftwood Piebald / Cinnamon Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29292258
Brown Piebald / Gold Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29292259
Latte Piebald / Terracotta Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
@
Naga Could you add me to the pinglist for Ironys and Persephone? I have one of their daughters and I love her.
@
Naga Could you add me to the pinglist for Ironys and Persephone? I have one of their daughters and I love her.
|
Doing Art for Apparel. See examples on my dragons!
|
@
MoonlitLegacy sure! I put them on a nest just now.
[center][size=5]New pair![/size]
[img]https://68.media.tumblr.com/97bcdeb7d0966ed1e020ceb22a175369/tumblr_oj2bn3Iobu1qjtulxo1_540.png[/img]
[img]https://68.media.tumblr.com/621354ef157e2e00cff504add318e125/tumblr_oj2bn3Iobu1qjtulxo2_400.png[/img]
[left][i]Taakin is the long lost descendant of the original three dragons who tried to harvest the energy of the sun. Upon the summoning of an emperor, each ancestor vowed to remember their mistake by carrying a different object. Taakin recently came into possession of the golden brush. With this he tattoos the story of their ancestors onto all of his children, written in ancient runes. Bloodrun is not of this descent, but, being of mixed Plague/Light ancestry, endorses the survival of old stories.
Hatchlings of this pair are often serious, carrying on their life's work to their own offspring. Often, they learn the art of rune calligraphy before they leave the clan. Some are ashamed of their tattoos, others embrace it. Professional or not, they frequently enjoy storytelling.[/i]
@Stanford - lore pairs
@glowb - doubles or triples
@Eilastreon, @Mosflow, @Wendibro, @Rulanir, @RomanElke, @B3c71, @Pikavee, @Rifter, @briar, @Grimbone
I like my completed project pair so much that they're becoming an official lore pair! They can produce obs/gold/gold and indeed there was one in their first clutch. Let me know if you want to be on their pinglist.
New pair!
Taakin is the long lost descendant of the original three dragons who tried to harvest the energy of the sun. Upon the summoning of an emperor, each ancestor vowed to remember their mistake by carrying a different object. Taakin recently came into possession of the golden brush. With this he tattoos the story of their ancestors onto all of his children, written in ancient runes. Bloodrun is not of this descent, but, being of mixed Plague/Light ancestry, endorses the survival of old stories.
Hatchlings of this pair are often serious, carrying on their life's work to their own offspring. Often, they learn the art of rune calligraphy before they leave the clan. Some are ashamed of their tattoos, others embrace it. Professional or not, they frequently enjoy storytelling.
@
Stanford - lore pairs
@
glowb - doubles or triples
@
Eilastreon, @
Mosflow, @
Wendibro, @
Rulanir, @
RomanElke, @
B3c71, @
Pikavee, @
Rifter, @
briar, @
Grimbone
I like my completed project pair so much that they're becoming an official lore pair! They can produce obs/gold/gold and indeed there was one in their first clutch. Let me know if you want to be on their pinglist.
@
Naga could I be pinged for this pair?
@
Naga could I be pinged for this pair?
These guys are a couple of days old because I've been at work, sorry.
@Stanford - lore pairs @glowb - doubles or triples @Eilastreon, @Mosflow, @Wendibro, @Rulanir, @RomanElke, @B3c71, @Pikavee, @Rifter, @briar, @Grimbone
[center][left]From Persephone and Ironys:[/left]
@faewynd (obs/x/obs male - finally got one!), @Regenherz, @MoonlitLegacy
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29826418]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298265/29826418_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29826418[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Obsidian Piebald / Royal Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29826419]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298265/29826419_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29826419[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Platinum Piebald / Steel Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]20K (18K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29826420]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298265/29826420_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29826420[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Obsidian Piebald / Nightshade Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29826421]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298265/29826421_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29826421[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
SIlver Piebald / Thicket Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Ilocy and Aerugina:[/left]
Wendibro (esp. underbelly + sunshine), stanford
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29849276]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298493/29849276_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29849276[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Denim Poison / Saffron Butterfly / Ivory Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29849277]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298493/29849277_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29849277[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Denim Poison / Saffron Butterfly / Flaxen Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]23K (21K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29849278]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/298493/29849278_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29849278[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Denim Poison / Peach Shimmer / Sanddollar Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]20K (18K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
These guys are a couple of days old because I've been at work, sorry.
@
Stanford - lore pairs @
glowb - doubles or triples @
Eilastreon, @
Mosflow, @
Wendibro, @
Rulanir, @
RomanElke, @
B3c71, @
Pikavee, @
Rifter, @
briar, @
Grimbone
From Persephone and Ironys:
@
faewynd (obs/x/obs male - finally got one!), @
Regenherz, @
MoonlitLegacy
Quote:
29826418
Obsidian Piebald / Royal Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29826419
Platinum Piebald / Steel Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
20K (18K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29826420
Obsidian Piebald / Nightshade Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29826421
SIlver Piebald / Thicket Butterfly / Obsidian Thylacine
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
From Ilocy and Aerugina:
Wendibro (esp. underbelly + sunshine), stanford
Quote:
29849276
Denim Poison / Saffron Butterfly / Ivory Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29849277
Denim Poison / Saffron Butterfly / Flaxen Underbelly
23K (21K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29849278
Denim Poison / Peach Shimmer / Sanddollar Underbelly
20K (18K with pinglist discount)
@Stanford - lore pairs @Eilastreon, @Mosflow, @Wendibro, @Rulanir, @RomanElke, @B3c71, @Pikavee, @Rifter, @briar, @Grimbone
Some near miss 30 mill babies for sale! Zlato has lore, but Osiris is still lacking it, so technically these four all have lore parents.
As well, they're not from an official pair, but I had an experimental Copper Glimmer pair pop out some Snappers if you're interested:
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29894909]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/298950/29894909.png[/img]
[/url][url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29894910]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/298950/29894910.png[/img]
[/url][url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29894911]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/avatars/298950/29894911.png[/img]
[/url]
What do you think? Should they become an official pair?
[center]
[left]From Zlato and Osiris:
@shoyou, @Starstalker, @Antimoany[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29999702]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/299998/29999702_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29999702[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Gold Poison / Flaxen Butterfly / Obsidian Contour
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29999703]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/299998/29999703_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29999703[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Gold Poison / Grapefruit Butterfly / Obsidian Contour
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Flynn and Nirvana:
@ Starstalker[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29999658]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/299997/29999658_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29999658[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
White Poison / Spearmint Shimmer / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=29999659]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/299997/29999659_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 29999659[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
White Poison / Jungle Facet / Black Okapi
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
@
Stanford - lore pairs @
Eilastreon, @
Mosflow, @
Wendibro, @
Rulanir, @
RomanElke, @
B3c71, @
Pikavee, @
Rifter, @
briar, @
Grimbone
Some near miss 30 mill babies for sale! Zlato has lore, but Osiris is still lacking it, so technically these four all have lore parents.
As well, they're not from an official pair, but I had an experimental Copper Glimmer pair pop out some Snappers if you're interested:
What do you think? Should they become an official pair?
Quote:
29999702
Gold Poison / Flaxen Butterfly / Obsidian Contour
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29999703
Gold Poison / Grapefruit Butterfly / Obsidian Contour
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
From Flynn and Nirvana:
@ Starstalker
Quote:
29999658
White Poison / Spearmint Shimmer / Obsidian Thylacine
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
29999659
White Poison / Jungle Facet / Black Okapi
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
@glowb - doubles or triples @Eilastreon, @Mosflow, @Wendibro, @Rulanir, @RomanElke, @B3c71, @Pikavee, @Rifter, @briar, @Grimbone
[center]
[left]From Bog and Kelpie:[/left]
@lucidcoyote, @Lunader2002, @casanovasAnchor
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30338020]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/303381/30338020_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30338020[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Camo Bar / Obsidian Daub / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30338021]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/303381/30338021_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30338021[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Camo Bar / Obsidian Daub / Obsidian Thylacine
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Liese and Lowry:[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30288188]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/302882/30288188_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30288188[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Caramel Skink / Bronze Butterfly / Orange Contour
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30288189]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/302882/30288189_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30288189[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Caramel Skink / Fire Butterfly / Cantaloupe Contour
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Apollo and Seraphim:[/left]
@PastelScale, @Eilastreon, @muucifer, @Beheaded, @Cyphurus
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30138951]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/301390/30138951_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30138951[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]20K (18K with pinglist discount)
[b]EXALT BLOCK[/b][/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30138949]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/301390/30138949_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30138949[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Banana Glimmer
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]60K CR only[/quote]
[img]http://68.media.tumblr.com/14b8eba440a2ee6ce8da37a3cc20a2f3/tumblr_inline_nvcxj6Oad21r7qfkn_500.png[/img]
[left]From Understory and Canopy:[/left]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30263253]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/302633/30263253_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30263253[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Ginger Piebald / Radioactive Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30263254]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/302633/30263254_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30263254[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_female.png[/img]
Sable Piebald / Sunshine Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]30K (27K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
[url=http://flightrising.com/main.php?dragon=30263255]
[img]http://flightrising.com/rendern/350/302633/30263255_350.png[/img]
[/url]
[quote][center][img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/light_rune_20.png[/img] 30263255[img]http://flightrising.com/images/icons/small_male.png[/img]
Slate Piebald / Caramel Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
[img]http://www1.flightrising.com/static/layout/icon_treasure.png[/img]25K (22K with pinglist discount)[/quote]
@
glowb - doubles or triples @
Eilastreon, @
Mosflow, @
Wendibro, @
Rulanir, @
RomanElke, @
B3c71, @
Pikavee, @
Rifter, @
briar, @
Grimbone
From Bog and Kelpie:
@
lucidcoyote, @
Lunader2002, @
casanovasAnchor
Quote:
30338020
Camo Bar / Obsidian Daub / Obsidian Thylacine
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
30338021
Camo Bar / Obsidian Daub / Obsidian Thylacine
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
From Liese and Lowry:
Quote:
30288188
Caramel Skink / Bronze Butterfly / Orange Contour
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
30288189
Caramel Skink / Fire Butterfly / Cantaloupe Contour
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
From Apollo and Seraphim:
@
PastelScale, @
Eilastreon, @
muucifer, @
Beheaded, @
Cyphurus
Quote:
30138951
20K (18K with pinglist discount)
EXALT BLOCK
Quote:
30138949
Goldenrod Poison / Goldenrod Facet / Banana Glimmer
60K CR only
From Understory and Canopy:
Quote:
30263253
Ginger Piebald / Radioactive Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
30263254
Sable Piebald / Sunshine Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
30K (27K with pinglist discount)
Quote:
30263255
Slate Piebald / Caramel Butterfly / Slate Underbelly
25K (22K with pinglist discount)