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[quote name="ceiswyn" date="2023-05-11 01:16:31" ] [quote name="WurldPeaz" date="2023-05-11 01:12:44" ] WC scroll is fine the way it is. They are always around the AH for almost the same price year round, leave it be, plain snd simple [/quote] I'm not convinced that a 10% markup is 'almost the same price'. I've occasionally profited from that markup, but I do feel a bit uncomfortable profiting from what feels like an artificial scarcity. And as a Nature player, it is a bit annoying that our only breed is not only a gem breed but almost never available! [/quote] It also used to be worse than that. Since, well, only semi-recently have we gotten them yearly at all, and we've only had the black friday sale for... two years in a row, now?

[quote name="VandaMaksimova" date="2023-05-11 06:36:26" ] Quote: -It's not fair to Nature Flight members that their only representative species is available for a week or two out of the year. [b]-from the topic post itself. It absolutely is because nature.[/b] Quote: Quote: Genuine question: what does it being Nature's breed have to do with anything? In what way does that alter the equation? Simple, flight identity. This is one of the frustrations that drive this conversation for nature flighters being upset with WC cycling and having to deal with scalping-esque prices for the rest of the year. For their only dragon species representative. Just look at the first post again and you'll see it written down, yes it very much has to do with flight identity. It is also the only change scroll treated this way, also aimed at a flight that is singled out this way. Once again. I do want to know why most people make it a light rep when they get a wildclaw tho, if it's such nature business. [/quote] It's 'because Nature' in the sense that Nature is the flight that happens to be suffering from their only rep species being a gem-only rarely-cycling breed. It is not 'because Nature' in the sense that people have some kind of bias towards Nature. These are two very different things that you appear to be conflating.

[quote name="VandaMaksimova" date="2023-05-11 06:36:26" ] Quote: -It's not fair to Nature Flight members that their only representative species is available for a week or two out of the year. -from the topic post itself. It absolutely is because nature. Quote: Quote: Genuine question: what does it being Nature's breed have to do with anything? In what way does that alter the equation? Simple, flight identity. This is one of the frustrations that drive this conversation for nature flighters being upset with WC cycling and having to deal with scalping-esque prices for the rest of the year. For their only dragon species representative. Just look at the first post again and you'll see it written down, yes it very much has to do with flight identity. It is also the only change scroll treated this way, also aimed at a flight that is singled out this way. Once again. I do want to know why most people make it a light rep when they get a wildclaw tho, if it's such nature business. [/quote] i don't think that's the point people are trying to make. just because wildclaws are a nature breed doesn't mean they have to be exclusively used for nature-related things. i think what people are concerned about is that the wildclaw is nature's [i]only[/i] breed on the site, and it's basically kept behind a paywall for a few weeks a year. it's not specifically about the flight, it's about the fact that the flight's only breed is cycled, whereas that's not something you have to worry about with other breeds.

[quote name="TheresanColis" date="2023-05-10 22:47:47" ] [quote name="Almedha" date="2023-05-10 07:37:25" ] Genuine question: what does it being Nature's breed have to do with anything? In what way does that alter the equation? [/quote] Simple, flight identity. This is one of the frustrations that drive this conversation for nature flighters being upset with WC cycling and having to deal with scalping-esque prices for the rest of the year. For their only dragon species representative. Just look at the first post again and you'll see it written down, yes it very much has to do with flight identity. It is also the only change scroll treated this way, also aimed at a flight that is singled out this way. [/quote] I feel like this didn't answer my question at all. I asked what it being Nature's breed (or, really, any flight's breed) has to do with anything. The answer you seem to have given is just basically... "it does "? I don't need to read the OP again, it says the same thing you did which, to me, means nothing. "Flight identity" means nothing. What even is that? Plenty of Nature reps aren't even Wildclaws. If you want a Nature Flight rep, there are Wildclaws. You can go get one right now for, probably, 5-7g. Choosing to increase the challenge by doing G1 only (or anything that would require a Wildclaw scroll because Wildclaws are, as we can see, available pretty much all the time) is a personal choice. G1s (or putting genes on a breeding project) are luxury items that have the same effect that collecting and breeding a WC of the AH would. And it's not like there is even a problem with things in the same category costing different amounts. Lionfish and Vipera are both uncommon. Spirals and Ridgebacks are both common. Nature has a dragon, and those dragons are available. It's just a bit more difficult to get if you want to have the most expensive expression of this breed. I wouldn't call it unfair, just different. WCs as a breed enjoy other benefits because they're a bit more rare. That's not a bad thing to have some breed that appeals to people who like rare and exclusive stuff that's still attainable (because Imperials don't factor into a G1 discussion most of the time). This isn't about cycling; it's about the price difference. Particularly the price difference paid to players rather than to the game if i had to guess, judging by other threads on similar topics.

Alright, well, I'm about to step into a landmine. Let's begin. First of all, I do not believe it is in anyone's best interest to end the cycling system entirely. While it is certainly frustrating, it ultimately serves its purposes. Users can make extra gems by selling gem marketplace items in their off seasons. This is an important ability to have, as gems are not incredibly easy to come by through natural gameplay. I do not support ending the cycling system altogether. Yes, one of the main benefits of this cycle is that the site makes extra money from gem purchases. However, this is not necessarily a [i]bad[/i] thing. Another website I'm on has different items cycle through the shops, including the cash shop, every month. This, of course, serves to make the site money, especially considering it involves the part of the site where you buy in-game items for real life currency. However, these complaints are not visible regarding those items on that website. Why could this be? I propose it has to do with the time frames. On that website, items cycle between seasonally appropriate items every month. In December, they might sell items based around winter and the holiday season. In October, they sell spookier themed items. You might be able to buy a winter sweater in December, and a pair of devil horns in October. It makes sense. And, more importantly, it's consistent. The same items, give or take a couple, come around every month. And they're available for the full month. They are available all month, at the same time each year, consistently. The least amount of time you will be given to save up for an item from its release in the shop is four whole weeks- [i]twice[/i] as long as you're given to save for wildclaw scrolls on this game. Looking at the history of the gem marketplace cycles, the cycling in of wildclaw scrolls have been wildly inconsistent. Wildclaw scrolls were first cycled out of the gem marketplace in March of 2014, only to return in November of that same year, 8 months later. They cycled in again in July of 2015, and cycled back in during March 2016. Then, just [i]four[/i] months later, they cycled in again, in July of 2016. Then, 7 months later, they came back, in February of 2017, before vanishing for nearly another full year, not returning until January of 2018. Then, they didn't return until over a [i]year and a half later[/i], in October of 2019. That's [i]19 months[/i]. And how long was the next wait? [i]Only four months.[/i] They cycled in on February of the next year, February 2020. And then they were gone until March 2021, and then returned once again in November 2021, then they were gone for another year until November 2022, only to return again now (May 2023). They will, according to the calendar, cycle in again next November. * This cycle is [i]incredibly[/i] inconsistent. The time between cycles ranges from four months to nineteen months, and we've only just been able to get some warning about it- on a part of the site that very few people actually are aware of. This is what I propose is the key difference between the gem marketplace cycle on here, and the regular shop cycles on the other website. It's even visible in how differently this is treated to the treasure marketplace, or NotN. The treasure marketplace creates the same artificial scarcity that the gem marketplace cycles create, but there is far less outcry over it because it's [i]consistent[/i]. It refreshes every five minutes. Surely, there would be more concern over it had it been created to refresh seemingly entirely at random. And the same applies to Night of the Nocturne- Sure, the exact date might not always be the same, but it always lasts, roughly, from the start of the last week of the year to the end of the first week of the new year. It's consistent, reliable, and easy to prepare for. And none of that can be said for the gem marketplace cycle. I've seen this compared to both of those things. Surely, another aspect of this, though, is that the treasure marketplace and NotN are both cheaper. If someone needs an out of stock treasure marketplace, the markup is only a few thousand treasure, which is trivial. If someone needs an out of season NotN item, it, too, is only a few thousand treasure. Nocturne breed changes, despite being so limited, are the cheapest breed change there is! So, does this then suggest that the only issue is because users do not wish to spend money on a site they enjoy? It might be tempting to think that, but I believe the answer lies a little further under the surface. Sure, the items being cheaper means they [i]do[/i] cost less, but that lowered cost reflects something: these items are, despite also being limited in ways similar to wildclaw scrolls, remarkably easier to get! Treasure marketplace items cost a few hundred thousand treasure at most. Most people will have that much treasure in their hoard or vault, as that's only a matter of a few days. If something you need is stocked in the treasure marketplace, even if you were given no warning, there's a pretty good chance that you'll be able to buy it! And Night of the Nocturne takes even less planning to account for- as long as you have free time within those few weeks, you'll be able to get both nocturne scrolls and eggs easily! I didn't even grind for chests in the coliseum during Night of the Nocturne last year, and I still got roughly 20 nocturne scrolls and 50 eggs from chests, only from bonding with my familiars and doing the daily tasks on the site! It is far, far less likely that someone who isn't aware of an upcoming cycle will have 2,000 gems lying around, and those who do are either rich enough that the extra hundred gems a wildclaw scroll would cost in its off season are negligible to them, or are saving up for something more expensive and thus not necessarily willing to spend those gems anyways! This is why this is such a debate. Those who are caught unprepared by these cycles have virtually no way to make the gems they need to buy a wildclaw scroll before it cycles back out of the shop. Unless they're already a known artist, skin/accent creator, they have a backlog of high value items in their hoard that they don't mind selling off, or they don't mind shelling out to buy gems, it's virtually impossible to make that amount of gems within two weeks. I, personally, am not against the cycling system as a whole. In fact, I believe it is, conceptually, not a bad idea, and can even help players make more gems. However, it only works if users are able to prepare, or able to recover from being caught unprepared. My proposal, personally, is to make the cycle last longer, a month at least, if you ask me, and/or to make the cycle consistent, preferably yearly, or bi-yearly if possible. I believe that consistency paired with a little extra time for last-minute scrambling for resources would solve this issue. Thank you very much. * This information was found by searching the announcements thread for posts containing "[item=breed change: wildclaw]" and sifting through all results found to be posted by mods. If I am missing any cycles, please correct me and link me to the announcement thread containing that information. Thank you!

[quote name="VandaMaksimova" date="2023-05-11 06:36:26" ] I do want to know why most people make it a light rep when they get a wildclaw tho, if it's such nature business. [/quote] I think specifically colored or first-gen wildclaws are slightly easier to come by than imps...

@/Jesterspin above me makes a very compelling argument, and I'm inclined to agree. No support for stopping the cycling, but support for cycling in for longer, more consistent periods of time.

I was greatly appreciative of the dev's decision to make a yearly calendar of events that included when gem items cycled back in. This in itself helped ease some of my (and others') anxiety with not knowing for sure when gem items were going to cycle back. It helped a lot, but I do believe that more can be done to the gem cycling event to improve it.
I am of the opinion that having coatls be constantly available while wildclaws are not is a bit silly considering they both have the same breeding rarity, they are both well sought after and admired, and it's the only breed that is held down by tape in this way. I've seen the argument before of "if wildclaw scrolls stop being a rare item then imperial scrolls should as well," which is an argument that does not ultimately work. Imperial scrolls, as many of us are aware, are essentially extinct due to them being kickstarter items--real-life legal things being involved here that would be detrimental to the site should they come back en masse. Wildclaw scrolls do not have this kind of legal tape, they're just kinda rare for rare's sake. As much as I wanna support the site by buying gems, I don't want to do it out of urgency, leading to the next point.
The gem item cycle event exists for a very, very short period of time every year. While again, I will remain thankful that this time period is now known ahead of time for everyone, the time period itself is too short. Simply, I do believe that one month out of the year even would make a lot more sense than one week out of the year. I do not want to buy gems out of urgency. If I want to support something that I enjoy, I want to support it in the best possible way. One week of availability is not it.
In summary, Wildclaw scrolls seem to be held by unnecessary tape. Them only being available to buy normally for one week out of the year is also very short.
There are many ways this can be improved. I'd likely support keeping Wildclaw scrolls as rare gem event items so long as the time period to buy them normally is increased greatly (like I said, one month minimum seems better). I would also support Wildclaw scrolls just existing as items that I can buy for 2,000 gems at any point just like Coatl scrolls. It's still a lot of gems (reasonably) and it would still prompt me to buy gems to support the site in a way that is comfortable.
The lesser solution would be to make both Coatl scrolls and Wildclaw scrolls equally gem event exclusive. I appreciate the equality here because it makes logical sense, but alas the previous points remain.

support because cycling things is lame

[quote name="@TrustRae" date="2023-05-11 12:05:35" ] I've seen the argument before of "if wildclaw scrolls stop being a rare item then imperial scrolls should as well," which is an argument that does not ultimately work. Imperial scrolls, as many of us are aware, are essentially extinct due to them being kickstarter items--real-life legal things being involved here that would be detrimental to the site should they come back en masse. Wildclaw scrolls do not have this kind of legal tape, they're just kinda rare for rare's sake. [/quote] Just want to say, [i]this is not true[/i]. There is nothing legally keeping the Imperial scrolls retired. Despite looking for examples even in case law databases, who-knows-how-many companies release their "KS exclusives" later, and as far as I and others can tell no one has had a problem with this. Thats likely because they are not breaking any contracts since the product they promised has been delivered. The only reason Imperial scrolls are not available like any other scroll is the same reason as anything else: because Staff Said So. Please stop spreading this misinformation. Edit: oi that sounded really aggressive; my bad