Eliminate Battle Stone Criticisms. | Suggestions

Hi. I've been a user since the first open enrollment. I've seen the economy of Flight Rising rise, fall, and so on. I've been active almost these entire 5 years, albeit playing solo for the most part. I have trained multiple coliseum teams over these 5 years, and I feel I'm justified in my following criticisms and suggested implementations.

I'll get straight to it. Increase the drop chance of Eliminate to match other common battle stones such as the Flight-exclusive lvl 15 mage spell, or hybrid augmentation stones.

My suggestion is, I feel, going to be wildly polarized in its responses, so let me clarify:

There is no reason someone should be able to train a team of dragons from 1 to 25--in my case MULTIPLE times--and not ONCE get a SINGLE Eliminate stone, the stone required to actually farm the Coliseum. This is not a case of bad luck, or RNG, or wrong venues.

This is a case of needless gatekeeping and throttling the economy. Let me explain:

The Eliminate stone, by all means, should be a common, even GUARANTEED thing for newbies. Especially nowadays, treasure and gems are difficult to come by if you aren't already flush, or have some sort of trained skill that would warrant an easy income. For new users, this is triply so. Fairgrounds are boring, bugged, and unenjoyable. In the first few years, you could ostensibly grind Fairgrounds to max for a day or three and buy an elim and start there. Now you'd need a minimum of a week of Fairgrounds grinding for a single elim.

The growing Flight Rising community and the ever-rare Eliminate should not be a thing. A requirement to make any amount of money through farming should not require such vast amounts of money, or be so rare and hard to come by. Either increase the drop rate exponentially, or completely rework the Coliseum so that it's no longer required and can be feasibly farmed without it. These are the only two options I can think of.

I truly don't think I am being unreasonable in these criticisms, and though I am sure I will face backlash and suggestions, I would be more than willing and eager to hear them.

For now, some key points of this post (to be updated as feedback grows) with links to original posting:

-The extremely low drop% plus extremely high demand and requirement for Eliminate should be dealt with, either by increasing drop% exponentially or reworking Coliseum to not require Eliminate. Original post

Orizuru

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November 04, 2018 22:50:35

Hi. I've been a user since the first open enrollment. I've seen the economy of Flight Rising rise, fall, and so on. I've been active almost these entire 5 years, albeit playing solo for the most part. I have trained multiple coliseum teams over these 5 years, and I feel I'm justified in my following criticisms and suggested implementations.

I'll get straight to it. Increase the drop chance of Eliminate to match other common battle stones such as the Flight-exclusive lvl 15 mage spell, or hybrid augmentation stones.

My suggestion is, I feel, going to be wildly polarized in its responses, so let me clarify:

There is no reason someone should be able to train a team of dragons from 1 to 25--in my case MULTIPLE times--and not ONCE get a SINGLE Eliminate stone, the stone required to actually farm the Coliseum. This is not a case of bad luck, or RNG, or wrong venues.

This is a case of needless gatekeeping and throttling the economy. Let me explain:

The Eliminate stone, by all means, should be a common, even GUARANTEED thing for newbies. Especially nowadays, treasure and gems are difficult to come by if you aren't already flush, or have some sort of trained skill that would warrant an easy income. For new users, this is triply so. Fairgrounds are boring, bugged, and unenjoyable. In the first few years, you could ostensibly grind Fairgrounds to max for a day or three and buy an elim and start there. Now you'd need a minimum of a week of Fairgrounds grinding for a single elim.

The growing Flight Rising community and the ever-rare Eliminate should not be a thing. A requirement to make any amount of money through farming should not require such vast amounts of money, or be so rare and hard to come by. Either increase the drop rate exponentially, or completely rework the Coliseum so that it's no longer required and can be feasibly farmed without it. These are the only two options I can think of.

I truly don't think I am being unreasonable in these criticisms, and though I am sure I will face backlash and suggestions, I would be more than willing and eager to hear them.

For now, some key points of this post (to be updated as feedback grows) with links to original posting:

-The extremely low drop% plus extremely high demand and requirement for Eliminate should be dealt with, either by increasing drop% exponentially or reworking Coliseum to not require Eliminate. Original post

I support! I'd be grateful for any increase in drop rate for elims seeing as I still haven't found a single one on my own. 8(

Oriette

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November 04, 2018 22:56:24

I support! I'd be grateful for any increase in drop rate for elims seeing as I still haven't found a single one on my own. 8(

I support as well -- It's fairly ridiculous that finding one is cause for genuine celebration for some people.
Save that rejoicing for hatching an XXY in good colors or something.

Juke

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November 04, 2018 22:58:56

I support as well -- It's fairly ridiculous that finding one is cause for genuine celebration for some people.
Save that rejoicing for hatching an XXY in good colors or something.

I half support this. While I do agree eliminate should be easier to get, I don't think they should be as easy to get as the other battlestones. Perhaps more along the lines of Rally's value would be better. Still a chunk of change, but nothing absurd. I also think reworking the coli to not require eliminate would be a massive undertaking, and one I can't see the staff working on anytime soon.
Instead of decreasing the rarity so immensely, my proposed alternative would be twofold:
1) Have eliminate drop in every venue, from every monster. Currently it does not drop in some venues, including the popular Mire. In other venues it only drops from bosses, and if someone is training a team they may avoid even battling those, as they can be really tough to kill without an eliminate.
2) Add eliminate into Pinkerton. Stones like Ambush and Berserkers are already in there and there's no shortage of them on site. It's easily accessible to even newbies, but still has the RNG element to it s there's no guarantee.

I feel this would be a huge step forward and much simpler to execute than another coli rewrite while still preserving some of the eliminate value.

softbun

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November 04, 2018 23:48:38

I half support this. While I do agree eliminate should be easier to get, I don't think they should be as easy to get as the other battlestones. Perhaps more along the lines of Rally's value would be better. Still a chunk of change, but nothing absurd. I also think reworking the coli to not require eliminate would be a massive undertaking, and one I can't see the staff working on anytime soon.
Instead of decreasing the rarity so immensely, my proposed alternative would be twofold:
1) Have eliminate drop in every venue, from every monster. Currently it does not drop in some venues, including the popular Mire. In other venues it only drops from bosses, and if someone is training a team they may avoid even battling those, as they can be really tough to kill without an eliminate.
2) Add eliminate into Pinkerton. Stones like Ambush and Berserkers are already in there and there's no shortage of them on site. It's easily accessible to even newbies, but still has the RNG element to it s there's no guarantee.

I feel this would be a huge step forward and much simpler to execute than another coli rewrite while still preserving some of the eliminate value.

[quote name="softbun" date="2018-11-04 23:48:38" ] I half support this. While I do agree eliminate should be easier to get, I don't think they should be as easy to get as the other battlestones. Perhaps more along the lines of Rally's value would be better. Still a chunk of change, but nothing absurd. I also think reworking the coli to not require eliminate would be a massive undertaking, and one I can't see the staff working on anytime soon. Instead of decreasing the rarity so immensely, my proposed alternative would be twofold: 1) Have eliminate drop in every venue, from every monster. Currently it does not drop in some venues, including the popular Mire. In other venues it only drops from bosses, and if someone is training a team they may avoid even battling those, as they can be really tough to kill without an eliminate. 2) Add eliminate into Pinkerton. Stones like Ambush and Berserkers are already in there and there's no shortage of them on site. It's easily accessible to even newbies, but still has the RNG element to it s there's no guarantee. I feel this would be a huge step forward and much simpler to execute than another coli rewrite while still preserving some of the eliminate value. [/quote] Pretty much this. 1. Eliminate is supposed to be rarer than other stones. It is, as far as I know, a higher rarity than other stones, and it is MUCH more powerful than other stones. 2. Eliminate is NOT required to farm the coliseum. It makes it much easier to farm, but if players did not place such emphasis on requiring eliminate to farm or train fodder, eliminate prices would not be so high. However, nearly every single post asking about the coliseum and farming and builds emphasizes eliminate. 3. Making it drop in every venue, including the two most commonly farmed places, which are also the two places it doesn't drop: The Mire and The Crystal Pools, would most likely do exactly the same thing as increasing drop rate. 4. Eliminates, with their overpowered attack, should be expensive, though I agree that it has been getting too expensive. However, it should not be a stone that players can obtain within one day of maxing the fairgrounds. I feel that 250,000 treasure would be a good price for the stone, because you WILL make it back quickly by using eliminate. I would rather things of this nature start small and then see how things go, than have them up the rate of eliminate drops. If adding it to both venues, and potentially pinkerton then doesn't bring the price down to where the admins want it (assuming it isn't at a price they want already), then they can tweak the drop rates of them (or perhaps, make more enemies drop it, since I understand some venues have it where it is a boss drop or only from certain mobs)

Jemadar

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November 05, 2018 03:08:18

softbun wrote on 2018-11-04 23:48:38:

I half support this. While I do agree eliminate should be easier to get, I don't think they should be as easy to get as the other battlestones. Perhaps more along the lines of Rally's value would be better. Still a chunk of change, but nothing absurd. I also think reworking the coli to not require eliminate would be a massive undertaking, and one I can't see the staff working on anytime soon.
Instead of decreasing the rarity so immensely, my proposed alternative would be twofold:
1) Have eliminate drop in every venue, from every monster. Currently it does not drop in some venues, including the popular Mire. In other venues it only drops from bosses, and if someone is training a team they may avoid even battling those, as they can be really tough to kill without an eliminate.
2) Add eliminate into Pinkerton. Stones like Ambush and Berserkers are already in there and there's no shortage of them on site. It's easily accessible to even newbies, but still has the RNG element to it s there's no guarantee.

I feel this would be a huge step forward and much simpler to execute than another coli rewrite while still preserving some of the eliminate value.

Pretty much this.

1. Eliminate is supposed to be rarer than other stones. It is, as far as I know, a higher rarity than other stones, and it is MUCH more powerful than other stones.

2. Eliminate is NOT required to farm the coliseum. It makes it much easier to farm, but if players did not place such emphasis on requiring eliminate to farm or train fodder, eliminate prices would not be so high. However, nearly every single post asking about the coliseum and farming and builds emphasizes eliminate.

3. Making it drop in every venue, including the two most commonly farmed places, which are also the two places it doesn't drop: The Mire and The Crystal Pools, would most likely do exactly the same thing as increasing drop rate.

4. Eliminates, with their overpowered attack, should be expensive, though I agree that it has been getting too expensive. However, it should not be a stone that players can obtain within one day of maxing the fairgrounds. I feel that 250,000 treasure would be a good price for the stone, because you WILL make it back quickly by using eliminate.

I would rather things of this nature start small and then see how things go, than have them up the rate of eliminate drops. If adding it to both venues, and potentially pinkerton then doesn't bring the price down to where the admins want it (assuming it isn't at a price they want already), then they can tweak the drop rates of them (or perhaps, make more enemies drop it, since I understand some venues have it where it is a boss drop or only from certain mobs)

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As always, strong support for adding it to the Mire and Crystal Pools. If that doesn't bring the price to a reasonable level in a few months, adjust the drop rate accordingly.

Elim is not required to farm the Coli or profit-exalt. However, it is necessary to stay competitive in Dominance. By making these stones so difficult to obtain, the staff has unintentionally closed off a certain playstyle to newer players.

EDIT: To clarify, by "reasonable level" I mean about 250k, like Jemadar said

Ridara

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November 05, 2018 04:58:47

As always, strong support for adding it to the Mire and Crystal Pools. If that doesn't bring the price to a reasonable level in a few months, adjust the drop rate accordingly.

Elim is not required to farm the Coli or profit-exalt. However, it is necessary to stay competitive in Dominance. By making these stones so difficult to obtain, the staff has unintentionally closed off a certain playstyle to newer players.

EDIT: To clarify, by "reasonable level" I mean about 250k, like Jemadar said

It takes Twelve Years for one Imperial pair to produce a Primal-eyed offspring of a specific sex. Goal-based breeding is dead.

Last edited on Nov 05, 2018 04:59:44 by Ridara

I also agree with putting eliminate in all venues. If we can get eggs from all elemental enemies in all venues, we can get eliminate in all venues too.

gemajgall

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November 05, 2018 05:17:56

I also agree with putting eliminate in all venues. If we can get eggs from all elemental enemies in all venues, we can get eliminate in all venues too.

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If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?

I support a lower drop rate, maybe a tiny bit rarer than a rally, and it dropping in the crystal pools and mire.

It shouldn't be super easy to get, though- keep a little bit of a challenge there

AquaticMercenary

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November 07, 2018 17:39:38

I support a lower drop rate, maybe a tiny bit rarer than a rally, and it dropping in the crystal pools and mire.

It shouldn't be super easy to get, though- keep a little bit of a challenge there

Pretty much what others here have said, add it to crystal pools and mire, have it drop for every enemy and not just a few, add it back to pinkerton. In my 3 or so years here i only ever had one elim drop from the coli. Another I got from pinkerton before they yanked it from that. It really is a tad too rare.

Medenadragon

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November 07, 2018 18:10:59

Pretty much what others here have said, add it to crystal pools and mire, have it drop for every enemy and not just a few, add it back to pinkerton. In my 3 or so years here i only ever had one elim drop from the coli. Another I got from pinkerton before they yanked it from that. It really is a tad too rare.

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she/her or they/them

The thing is, Eliminate pays for itself, lair expansions, genes, accents and art. It's an investment (along with training a dragon to put it on) that brings in far more than the 600-700k it's been running lately.

Quote:

The last time I worked out the figures using Volcanic Vents drops being hoardsold I estimated that given the amount of time I spend in the coli Eliminate would no longer be worthwhile to buy somewhere around 3 million treasure (compared to grinding it for myself).

I generally get 1 Eliminate drop per month on average over 2 hours a day of grinding. This has varied between no Eliminate for months and 3 over an hour for the past couple of years. RNG is strange.

By comparison, I made 352g and 380k or so in treasure with one Eliminate August 1, 2018 by selling leveled exalts and I haven't even sold any of my drops yet. Drop include at least 7 familiars and 8 stacks of food plus random hoardsell stuff. My Eliminate paid for itself that day and nearly half of the training of a L25 dragon to put it on.

That being said, I'd be thrilled to see newbies start out with L9 progens who already have Eliminate equipped and 2 tinctures of dissolution. The whole point of this suggestion seems to be "help out the newbies with the coli."

Having Eliminate drop in all venues doesn't seem excessive.

Increasing the drop rate will also have an unintended side effect. Sales of older L25s with Eliminate will plummet again. There's a fairly large number of these dragons with unpopular colors/genes/breeds/offspring lists that don't have a market when Eliminate is 250k. Their price drops down less than the cost to train that dragon to L25.

Nightwind

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November 07, 2018 18:57:10

The thing is, Eliminate pays for itself, lair expansions, genes, accents and art. It's an investment (along with training a dragon to put it on) that brings in far more than the 600-700k it's been running lately.

Quote:

The last time I worked out the figures using Volcanic Vents drops being hoardsold I estimated that given the amount of time I spend in the coli Eliminate would no longer be worthwhile to buy somewhere around 3 million treasure (compared to grinding it for myself).

I generally get 1 Eliminate drop per month on average over 2 hours a day of grinding. This has varied between no Eliminate for months and 3 over an hour for the past couple of years. RNG is strange.

By comparison, I made 352g and 380k or so in treasure with one Eliminate August 1, 2018 by selling leveled exalts and I haven't even sold any of my drops yet. Drop include at least 7 familiars and 8 stacks of food plus random hoardsell stuff. My Eliminate paid for itself that day and nearly half of the training of a L25 dragon to put it on.

That being said, I'd be thrilled to see newbies start out with L9 progens who already have Eliminate equipped and 2 tinctures of dissolution. The whole point of this suggestion seems to be "help out the newbies with the coli."

Having Eliminate drop in all venues doesn't seem excessive.

Increasing the drop rate will also have an unintended side effect. Sales of older L25s with Eliminate will plummet again. There's a fairly large number of these dragons with unpopular colors/genes/breeds/offspring lists that don't have a market when Eliminate is 250k. Their price drops down less than the cost to train that dragon to L25.

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Have you checked the Gem MP for Gene and Breed scrolls before buying an AH listing from me ending in 5g?