@MmmHowAboutNo
I realized that my comment may have come across as more snide than I intended. I was just commenting on how silly it is for people to shoot down a suggestion for realism reasons when this game is wildly unrealistic; breeding itself is such an example and I brought up size to illustrate how absurd it is. I didn’t mean to imply anything “freaky.” While some animals do lay large eggs, I believe it is “biologically impossible” for any animal to produce an egg larger than itself hence dragons producing hatchlings with sizes greater than themselves is technically impossible by real-world standards. But what is realistic or possible in the real world doesn’t matter because this is a silly dragon dress-up game, not a genetics or biology realsim, and so I think it’s a bit goofy to say no support to a suggestion for that reason.
With that said, I can understand comments about difficulty or making drastic changes too late into the game’s lifespan even if I disagree with them.
[quote name="MmmHowAboutNo" date="2024-06-21 10:51:07" ]
If you're not happy with a mechanic that is essential to the game since always, you're free to find another game that allows you to fo whatever you want. Just don't come spoiling what people like for the way it is. There are plenty of games and pet sites out there that allow you to spawn offspring out of the blue, in all the freaky ways you might like.
[b]No support, at all[/b]
[/quote]
Apologies, but I think may be misunderstanding what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting same sex dragons having offspring is “freaky”?
@
MmmHowAboutNo
I realized that my comment may have come across as more snide than I intended. I was just commenting on how silly it is for people to shoot down a suggestion for realism reasons when this game is wildly unrealistic; breeding itself is such an example and I brought up size to illustrate how absurd it is. I didn’t mean to imply anything “freaky.” While some animals do lay large eggs, I believe it is “biologically impossible” for any animal to produce an egg larger than itself hence dragons producing hatchlings with sizes greater than themselves is technically impossible by real-world standards. But what is realistic or possible in the real world doesn’t matter because this is a silly dragon dress-up game, not a genetics or biology realsim, and so I think it’s a bit goofy to say no support to a suggestion for that reason.
With that said, I can understand comments about difficulty or making drastic changes too late into the game’s lifespan even if I disagree with them.
MmmHowAboutNo wrote on 2024-06-21 10:51:07:
If you're not happy with a mechanic that is essential to the game since always, you're free to find another game that allows you to fo whatever you want. Just don't come spoiling what people like for the way it is. There are plenty of games and pet sites out there that allow you to spawn offspring out of the blue, in all the freaky ways you might like.
No support, at all
Apologies, but I think may be misunderstanding what you’re saying here. Are you suggesting same sex dragons having offspring is “freaky”?
Would rather they just add an item that just let's you pair whatever two dragons you want via gems or smth.
I just think of it as a 'it'd have to be worth it for the devs to bother changing how this awfully made site works' type of thing.
Would rather they just add an item that just let's you pair whatever two dragons you want via gems or smth.
I just think of it as a 'it'd have to be worth it for the devs to bother changing how this awfully made site works' type of thing.
[quote name="Churrell" date="2024-06-21 11:37:31" ]
[quote name="skinklegs" date="2024-06-21 11:15:53" ]
i think given the lore around breeding (it's "magic" and there is not necessarily any physicality between the parents) same-sex breeding pairs would have been a neat inclusive thing to include from launch, but it's way too late in the game now to change something so deeply baked into a core site mechanic.
[/quote]
Basically where I’m at, though I do like the idea itself
If same-sex breeding were a thing, I’d like to see it implemented via some consumable magic item (we can pretend it plucks a scale from each dragon for genetic info or something, haha, or like even we throw genetic samples into Baldwin, he does brew eggs after all)
But at this point in the life of the site, it seems like it would just upset the apple cart too much :/
[/quote]
i think it would be very easy to implement lore wise, especially since they breed with magic. the idea you suggested with the scales sounds very cool!
my only concern is how it would be coding wise. i suppose there could be an item that makes a dragon able to?
Churrell wrote on 2024-06-21 11:37:31:
skinklegs wrote on 2024-06-21 11:15:53:
i think given the lore around breeding (it's "magic" and there is not necessarily any physicality between the parents) same-sex breeding pairs would have been a neat inclusive thing to include from launch, but it's way too late in the game now to change something so deeply baked into a core site mechanic.
Basically where I’m at, though I do like the idea itself
If same-sex breeding were a thing, I’d like to see it implemented via some consumable magic item (we can pretend it plucks a scale from each dragon for genetic info or something, haha, or like even we throw genetic samples into Baldwin, he does brew eggs after all)
But at this point in the life of the site, it seems like it would just upset the apple cart too much :/
i think it would be very easy to implement lore wise, especially since they breed with magic. the idea you suggested with the scales sounds very cool!
my only concern is how it would be coding wise. i suppose there could be an item that makes a dragon able to?
[quote name="yiq" date="2024-06-21 14:29:01" ]
Would rather they just add an item that just let's you pair whatever two dragons you want via gems or smth.
I just think of it as a 'it'd have to be worth it for the devs to bother changing how this awfully made site works' type of thing.
[/quote]
This is how I'd support it. Make it cost gems so it doesn't heavily affect the mechanic for most players. Making it available to all players automatically though can definitely take the fun out of projects and stuff so I can see the point there and would not support it if it was done this way. If it's an expensive item that you have to save up for and really consider using then yeah sure sounds like a fair trade off [emoji=gaoler laughing size=1]
yiq wrote on 2024-06-21 14:29:01:
Would rather they just add an item that just let's you pair whatever two dragons you want via gems or smth.
I just think of it as a 'it'd have to be worth it for the devs to bother changing how this awfully made site works' type of thing.
This is how I'd support it. Make it cost gems so it doesn't heavily affect the mechanic for most players. Making it available to all players automatically though can definitely take the fun out of projects and stuff so I can see the point there and would not support it if it was done this way. If it's an expensive item that you have to save up for and really consider using then yeah sure sounds like a fair trade off
No support because at that point, what would be the purpose of even having male or female dragons if any dragon could breed with any other non-related dragon? Might as well call them Pose 1 and Pose 2 and let users determine the rest. I mean at that point it might be worth considering not having different poses at all, and just have one standard adult form since male or female would be meaningless because then moderns could get turned out much faster due to need 1 pose less of apparel backlog drawn.
No support because at that point, what would be the purpose of even having male or female dragons if any dragon could breed with any other non-related dragon? Might as well call them Pose 1 and Pose 2 and let users determine the rest. I mean at that point it might be worth considering not having different poses at all, and just have one standard adult form since male or female would be meaningless because then moderns could get turned out much faster due to need 1 pose less of apparel backlog drawn.
Pings are disabled.
If writers are supposed to "show not tell," why are we called "storytellers" and not "storyshow-ers"?
So, I'm gunna reply to a lot of people here, I think a lot have good points and I don't want to forget anyone. My apologies if it ends up very long.
[quote name="Renaiwom" date="2024-06-21 00:42:52" ]
As a heads up, this is likely to get a lot of very heated "No Supports". Gotta love it here...
[/quote]
Thank you for the warning, I was very much not prepared!
And you're right, a lot of people don't support because they like a challenge. I didn't actually think of that aspect when suggesting this, I just thought it'd be more fun that way, and (depending on how it's implemented) I thought it could add to the challenge, or at least the convulatedness of breeding.
That said, I also, wasn't aware of how much work it would take to implement this, I know very little about coding, but
[quote name="DeathbyPixelz" date="2024-06-21 11:06:13" ]
-snip-
For me, a lesbian, the fact when I'm with someone that there's no possibility or expectation for kids is a good thing. I'd like for my same-sex pairs to just exist as they are.
-snip-
EDIT:
[quote name="Teeka" date="2024-06-21 12:41:08" ]
Second reason is the one that'll probably get me a lot of flack where people tell me that's not what the suggestion is about, but I'm bringing it up anyway:
There's something really yucky about the idea because it (to me and and other people) carries with it the implication that in order to be a valid family it is necessary for a couple to be able to produce biological children. There are so many reasons for a couple, be they homosexual or heterosexual, to not have children and the whole notion of placing so much importance children, especially biological children is something that this site really doesn't need, even implicitly.[/quote]
[/quote]
I think these are very good points. Personally, my favorite part of this is breeding, which is why I would've liked the option, but I certainly get how it would imply such things, even though I'm not sure I agree, and I don't very much like that implication either.
[quote name="Churrell" date="2024-06-21 11:37:31" ]
-snip-
If same-sex breeding were a thing, I’d like to see it implemented via some consumable magic item (we can pretend it plucks a scale from each dragon for genetic info or something, haha, or like even we throw genetic samples into Baldwin, he does brew eggs after all)
But at this point in the life of the site, it seems like it would just upset the apple cart too much :/
[/quote]
This^ though would be a much better way to implement it, and I very much like the scale idea. Especially if it's made to be fairly difficult to acquire, cause then it's just an extra challenge!
Also, a couple things I want to touch on, I would like it if there was a scroll or something that would add on names of non-biological parents to dragons in some way, (in case of your dragons adopting another) that way even if you sell or exalt, that history/lore is still there. Though I could also see how that would be difficult to do and people may not like having someone else's headcannon for their dragon. People have also commented that if it same sex breeding was implemented, they wouldn't see the point of having different sexs at all or different poses. And I don't quite understand why it would make them meaningless? Like, I get that it could give the option to simplify things, and make it so there's only 1 standard sex/pose for all dragons, but if that would make the game less fun I don't see why that option would be taken simply because you could breed 2 dragons of the same sex. Could anyone explain why it would make different sex/poses meaningless please?
So, I'm gunna reply to a lot of people here, I think a lot have good points and I don't want to forget anyone. My apologies if it ends up very long.
Renaiwom wrote on 2024-06-21 00:42:52:
As a heads up, this is likely to get a lot of very heated "No Supports". Gotta love it here...
Thank you for the warning, I was very much not prepared!
And you're right, a lot of people don't support because they like a challenge. I didn't actually think of that aspect when suggesting this, I just thought it'd be more fun that way, and (depending on how it's implemented) I thought it could add to the challenge, or at least the convulatedness of breeding.
That said, I also, wasn't aware of how much work it would take to implement this, I know very little about coding, but
DeathbyPixelz wrote on 2024-06-21 11:06:13:
-snip-
For me, a lesbian, the fact when I'm with someone that there's no possibility or expectation for kids is a good thing. I'd like for my same-sex pairs to just exist as they are.
-snip-
EDIT:
Teeka wrote on 2024-06-21 12:41:08:
Second reason is the one that'll probably get me a lot of flack where people tell me that's not what the suggestion is about, but I'm bringing it up anyway:
There's something really yucky about the idea because it (to me and and other people) carries with it the implication that in order to be a valid family it is necessary for a couple to be able to produce biological children. There are so many reasons for a couple, be they homosexual or heterosexual, to not have children and the whole notion of placing so much importance children, especially biological children is something that this site really doesn't need, even implicitly.
I think these are very good points. Personally, my favorite part of this is breeding, which is why I would've liked the option, but I certainly get how it would imply such things, even though I'm not sure I agree, and I don't very much like that implication either.
Churrell wrote on 2024-06-21 11:37:31:
-snip-
If same-sex breeding were a thing, I’d like to see it implemented via some consumable magic item (we can pretend it plucks a scale from each dragon for genetic info or something, haha, or like even we throw genetic samples into Baldwin, he does brew eggs after all)
But at this point in the life of the site, it seems like it would just upset the apple cart too much :/
This^ though would be a much better way to implement it, and I very much like the scale idea. Especially if it's made to be fairly difficult to acquire, cause then it's just an extra challenge!
Also, a couple things I want to touch on, I would like it if there was a scroll or something that would add on names of non-biological parents to dragons in some way, (in case of your dragons adopting another) that way even if you sell or exalt, that history/lore is still there. Though I could also see how that would be difficult to do and people may not like having someone else's headcannon for their dragon. People have also commented that if it same sex breeding was implemented, they wouldn't see the point of having different sexs at all or different poses. And I don't quite understand why it would make them meaningless? Like, I get that it could give the option to simplify things, and make it so there's only 1 standard sex/pose for all dragons, but if that would make the game less fun I don't see why that option would be taken simply because you could breed 2 dragons of the same sex. Could anyone explain why it would make different sex/poses meaningless please?
[quote name="Teeka" date="2024-06-21 12:41:08" ]
No support for two reasons.
One, the chance of it breaking the code in some way for descendants of those two dragons means that there'd probably need to be a massive overhaul to the site's breeding and display code to make sure that nothing goes wrong and stuff would probably still go wrong and the upset that those glitches and hiccups would cause would probably be a nightmare, not to mention the issues that would arise even if things went perfectly due to people having different expectations of how things should display/work in general. (I can people wanting the order of same sex parents to be random so as to not imply that one dragon is the mother and one is the father, which could result in huge slowdown to pages loading due to the site needing to check if parent order needs to be randomized and then needing to randomize it when appropriate.)[/quote]
FR devs already took eight years to finish the site refactor to fix the general spaghetti code the site had on launch. It'd probably take a long time to re-code for this if it was implemented. Meanwhile, Adventure Mode, a highly-anticipated feature which involves a lot of coding, has been promised since the Kickstarter 11+ years ago and I'd prefer the small number of coders FR has focus on that, since it likely has a broader appeal than same-sex breeding.
Teeka wrote on 2024-06-21 12:41:08:
No support for two reasons.
One, the chance of it breaking the code in some way for descendants of those two dragons means that there'd probably need to be a massive overhaul to the site's breeding and display code to make sure that nothing goes wrong and stuff would probably still go wrong and the upset that those glitches and hiccups would cause would probably be a nightmare, not to mention the issues that would arise even if things went perfectly due to people having different expectations of how things should display/work in general. (I can people wanting the order of same sex parents to be random so as to not imply that one dragon is the mother and one is the father, which could result in huge slowdown to pages loading due to the site needing to check if parent order needs to be randomized and then needing to randomize it when appropriate.)
FR devs already took eight years to finish the site refactor to fix the general spaghetti code the site had on launch. It'd probably take a long time to re-code for this if it was implemented. Meanwhile, Adventure Mode, a highly-anticipated feature which involves a lot of coding, has been promised since the Kickstarter 11+ years ago and I'd prefer the small number of coders FR has focus on that, since it likely has a broader appeal than same-sex breeding.
Dragons are already kinda flooding the market. There are too many dragons, we kinda don't need more dragons.
Dragons are already kinda flooding the market. There are too many dragons, we kinda don't need more dragons.
[quote name="Ogerpon" date="2024-06-22 05:31:03" ]
Dragons are already kinda flooding the market. There are too many dragons, we kinda don't need more dragons.
[/quote]
I don't feel this suggestion would make this any worse. No matter how many dragons there are available to breed, every player can only fill up to five nests at a time. We'd still have around the same amount of dragons because the amount we can breed at once will never change even if the ones who are allowed to breed do change.
Ogerpon wrote on 2024-06-22 05:31:03:
Dragons are already kinda flooding the market. There are too many dragons, we kinda don't need more dragons.
I don't feel this suggestion would make this any worse. No matter how many dragons there are available to breed, every player can only fill up to five nests at a time. We'd still have around the same amount of dragons because the amount we can breed at once will never change even if the ones who are allowed to breed do change.
I support, though I don't think it'll ever happen due to the coding hassle. Would be nice to breed a couple of my same sex pairs, they'd have cool kids. I think it'd be very neat if one day they add it as a consumable item.
I don't know how difficult it'd be on the back end. I don't really see how it'd affect the '5 generations' rule, since the same check could be run regardless of gender (depending how it's coded). The Father/Mother in a bio could just show two names under one and a 'none' under the other. But there may be many more parts built on the system behind the scenes by now.
Without knowing how much work it is though, big support from me, I think even some people in here who've said no support would still find it convenient and not mind if it was added.
I support, though I don't think it'll ever happen due to the coding hassle. Would be nice to breed a couple of my same sex pairs, they'd have cool kids. I think it'd be very neat if one day they add it as a consumable item.
I don't know how difficult it'd be on the back end. I don't really see how it'd affect the '5 generations' rule, since the same check could be run regardless of gender (depending how it's coded). The Father/Mother in a bio could just show two names under one and a 'none' under the other. But there may be many more parts built on the system behind the scenes by now.
Without knowing how much work it is though, big support from me, I think even some people in here who've said no support would still find it convenient and not mind if it was added.
